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Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

The indecent thing is NOT to admit when you are wrong, especially when you are TECHNICALLY wrong.

I am not here to earn 'props' from anyone. I am here to speak for the US in general and the USAF in particular. I like aviation, so I will be interested in things about aviation. If you are wrong, I do not care if you thank me or not after I showed you the correct information. At the very least, say something vague like: 'I will consider your position.' That is all there is to it to save face. But you guys cannot even say that.

Again...Since the J-20 is a Chinese product, and I have been told many times in the past that only Chinese are qualified to debate Chinese products, even at the technical level, can any Chinese member in this forum explain why does the J-20's canards are in full LE down deflection when running on the ramp?
I don't know why the canards are in full LE down deflection. I only know J20's canard is made of RAM(Nano composite grid structure filled with absorbing foam).

Maybe it's configuration set up of FBW
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If you know it, share with me.
 
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I didn't read your previous post, it serves air brake. I think you are right.
And that is all I asked. I do not care if you really think I am correct. For all we know, I am absolutely wrong. But this kind of civil exchange is what should have happened. I explained what I am familiar with, why I believes it is applicable to the new product, and people can take it from there. No one 'forces' anyone to take any view.
 
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Because they got nothing to go on. Mr. MIg and I are doing just fine. The Chinese and their supporters do not understand one whit of what I posted so what else can they do but go after personal attacks. I have asked this to various members of the admin staff: What do my origin has to do with avionics? And I have yet to receive a reply. :lol:

Gambit, if you're really a professional and mature, you should ignore them and move on. The way you answering some fan boys here show that you're not mature enough and not professional enough for the sake of this forum. You just waste the space in this thread with out of topics troll war; which is childish for a "Retired USAF pilot". Look at @Deino, even when people here attack him, he still can act very professionally and not flooding the thread with dumb troll war posts.

My suggestion for you is, ignore those troll's post that attack you and act gracefully and professionally, like a real mature and respectable person.
 
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I can't read Hua Yi, but it seems that there are a lot of new SU-57 threads in there.

A lot of Chinese military fans are surprised that Russia is sending Su-57s to the frontline before officially inducting them and some are wondering whether J-20 should do the same.

Let's return to the topic now.
 
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- As nose WOW finally engaged, the flight control surfaces deflects some more to create more drag. The canards deflect an additional 5 deg LE down.

- As airspeed (ground speed) approaches a certain value that the FLCC thinks the tires will be enough to take over maneuvers controls, all flight control surfaces fully deflects to create maximum drag. The canards are fully LE down.

Too bad there isn't a video of a complete landing sequence to really see the process.

That might explain why there is also the drag chute on the J-20, since it's probably a must, that ground speed reaches a certain value before using the canards as speed brakes because those are also control surfaces that dictate pitch, unlike for example, a spine speed brake such as the one in the F-15 of Su-27/30/35, or those two little lip flaps on the back of the F-16. The aircraft that have dedicated speed brakes are just used for that purpose and are usually designed in a way to deploy while not to affecting the pitch of the aircraft in any significant manner, even in flight. I suspect that even as the J-20's canards are slowly pitched LE down after touchdown, they create a huge downforce on the front of the aircraft that the speed most certainly needs to reach a certain value before they deflect completely. Otherwise I just think that not only would there be some instability and possibly be too much strain on the front gear. I don't think that the movement of the canards is sudden or abrupt, but rather gradual.

I think if they're used as speed brakes, they're supplemental to the drag chutes.

So for all these pictures that we see the J-20 running on the ramp with the canards fully LE down, the pilot just simply left the speedbrake function switch to the 'ON' position.

I can buy your hypothesis only if it's an SOP for all the pilots, and not just the occasional one who feels like leaving the speedbrake function switch in the on position since we saw 2 J-20's in a row do it as they exited the sun shelters. That's also assuming that the action is indeed a speedbrake function. Are there any other possibilities?
 
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Lol. How about those canards flip vertically so the maintenance crews don't/can't step on them?
 
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That might explain why there is also the drag chute on the J-20, since it's probably a must, that ground speed reaches a certain value before using the canards as speed brakes because those are also control surfaces that dictate pitch, unlike for example, a spine speed brake such as the one in the F-15 of Su-27/30/35, or those two little lip flaps on the back of the F-16.

I think if they're used as speed brakes, they're supplemental to the drag chutes.
The drag chute is a one-time use device, meaning for each landing, the pilot can use it only once -- deployment. Then once it is deployed, it must be ejected after a certain distance/time. So far, there is no design where the jet can retract the chute and redeploy as needed.

The drag chute is the most efficient way of slowing down a jet, however, the F-4 pilot operating manual have a drag chute section where certain landing conditions discourage deployment, namely high crosswind. So for the J-20, perhaps the speedbrake function using the flight control surfaces are supplemental to the drag chute for when landing conditions do not allow the use of the chute.

The aircraft that have dedicated speed brakes are just used for that purpose and are usually designed in a way to deploy while not to affecting the pitch of the aircraft in any significant manner, even in flight. I suspect that even as the J-20's canards are slowly pitched LE down after touchdown, they create a huge downforce on the front of the aircraft that the speed most certainly needs to reach a certain value before they deflect completely. Otherwise I just think that not only would there be some instability and possibly be too much strain on the front gear. I don't think that the movement of the canards is sudden or abrupt, but rather gradual.
Going back to the flight controls laws...And remaining with full FBW-FLCS designs for now...

When the landing gear handle is lowered, this command takes priority over other logic in the laws. Lowering the landing gear handle is not a virtual command but a physical one, complete with lockout switches built into the handle. The reason we design the system this way is because we want the system to have no uncertainty as to what the pilot want, and landing is obviously mandatory at some time in flight.

So when the landing gear handle is lowered, we want the wings to be at their most efficient shape to produce the highest lift possible. The logic then is to lower the landing gears, we can assume landing gear switches are engaged once they are fully down and locked, AND to deploy wing LE and TE flaps to alter wing shape. The logic is not sequential but in parallel, meaning both actions takes place at the same time. The reasoning is that if there is something wrong with the landing gears, at least the wings are configured for landing, and if there is something wrong with reconfiguring the wings, at least the landing gears are down and locked.

And if both does not happen as the logic commanded, pull the ejection handle. Not sure if I want to try a landing with neither wing nor landing gear down even at the slowest speed.


At timestamp 0:04, even though the video is grainy, you can see the starboard wing's LE flap deflected down while there is no landing gear deployment. Faint, but discernible.

So what does this has to do with the J-20's speculative use of the flight control surfaces as speedbrake function? Plenty. As in the logic of the flight control laws.

http://www.ausairpower.net/SuperBug.html
2.2 The Virtual Speedbrake

The speedbrake function is produced by a balanced deployment of opposing flight control surfaces, generating drag without loss of flight control authority or change in aircraft pitch attitude.

...the raised ailerons, lowered trailing flaps, raised spoilers and splayed out rudders. Deceleration is smooth and there is no observable pitch change.

...the aircraft retains considerable control authority despite the fact that the rudders are splayed out, and the ailerons, spoilers and flaps are generating balanced opposing pitching moments.
Just like the TO/L logic where there are commanded and defaulted flight control surfaces' position, the F-18SH's speedbrake function has its own logic the moment the pilot activate the speedbrake switch. There is no dedicated speedbrake device. The jet uses all of its flight control surfaces in DEFAULTED balanced positions to create drag WHILE still giving the pilot full command authority to maneuver.

Assuming the J-20 uses the concept of 'balanced deployment of opposing flight control surfaces', the behaviors we see on the J-20 are inline with the concept. The logic maybe different with the inclusion of the canards and the delta wings, but the logic is definitely inferable based upon what we know of flight controls laws in general and with the F-18SH in particular as reference.

I can buy your hypothesis only if it's an SOP for all the pilots, and not just the occasional one who feels like leaving the speedbrake function switch in the on position since we saw 2 J-20's in a row do it as they exited the sun shelters. That's also assuming that the action is indeed a speedbrake function. Are there any other possibilities?
Possibly, but from my perspective, the odds of them are low.

Keywords search 'aircraft landing hot brakes'.

http://navyaviation.tpub.com/14014/css/Wheel-Assembly-Fires-348.htm

After a landing and once an aircraft is at end-of-runway (EOR), the EOR crew does a brief inspection of the jet prior to sending him to the chocks. Ground crews are trained to NEVER approach the wheel from its face, but from either front or rear.

76FWi2l.jpg


The J-20 maybe landing with a full fuel load -- air refueled. Or unspent ordnance because of no targets. Or battle damaged. Deltas are known for higher than normal landing speed. The drag chute seems to be a requirement rather than an optional feature for the J-20. However, local conditions such as high crosswind makes usage of the chute an option rather than a requirement. So WHEN -- not if -- the J-20 pilot has to land his jet without the chute, he is stuck with only the wheel brakes? I cannot see that as acceptable by the J-20's designers.
 
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China to develop the next(5th) generation anti-stealth radar.

Combining microwave and photonics technologies, the new radar is not only capable of detecting stealth fighter but also capable of distinguishing a particular aircraft type, even a specific aircraft.

中电科38所吴剑旗:进军第五代反隐身雷达

2月23日上午,安徽省科学技术奖励大会在合肥隆重召开,中国电科首席科学家、38所科技委主任吴剑旗获得2017年度安徽省重大科技成就奖。“这是对我和我们科研团队的充分肯定和认可,对我们来说既是鼓励更是鞭策。 ”吴剑旗表示,下一步将继续瞄准反隐身雷达研究,探寻更先进的反隐身技术,将荣誉转化为前进的动力,不辜负大家的厚爱与鼓励。

走进位于合肥市高新区的中国电科38所,一座巨型的雷达雕塑首先映入眼帘。自1990年进入38所,吴剑旗28年来献身雷达技术研究。作为雷达专家,他勇于创新、另辟蹊径,以不达目的誓不罢休的决心和韧劲,实现我国雷达研究由“跟跑”到“领跑”的转变。他领衔研发多型反隐身米波雷达,如一双双 “火眼金睛”,让一切敢于来犯之敌无处遁形,让祖国的蓝天云轻星粲。

隐身战机,被誉为现代战争中的超级装备。 1991年,海湾战争爆发,美国隐身飞机首次大规模投入实战,可以在不被对方发现的情况下纵深打击防空体系、指挥体系关键节点,致其瘫痪,后续常规力量再肆意轰炸。 “雷达不能反隐身,一个国家基本国防安全就没有保障。 ”吴剑旗说,当时全世界都没有反隐身雷达,我国雷达技术水平更是与发达国家存在代差,主要任务就是追赶并缩小差距。 “美国是世界上雷达技术最先进的国家,它是造‘矛’的一方,绝不会告诉我们造‘盾’的方法。 ”

吴剑旗坦言,研究反隐身雷达没有明确追赶、模仿的对象,只能靠独立自主地探索。

从基本理论,到设计方法,再到工程实现……为了填补反隐身雷达的空白,吴剑旗带领团队整整探索了20年,2011年反隐身雷达终于变成了装备。“刚开始时,反隐身雷达在国内立项阻力很大,质疑声很多,因为当时都是习惯于跟随式发展,国际上没有先例。但我们顶住了压力,最终将想法变成了实用装备。 ”吴剑旗透露,上世纪九十年代,从事国防技术研究待遇较低,从事雷达基础性预先研究更是条件差、工作时间长、收入少,研究团队中也有很多人经不住高薪和优厚待遇的诱惑,或出国或跳槽去了高薪揽才的民企,但他不能一走了之。

“作为一名雷达人,既要敬畏这份职业,又要担当起责任和使命。 ”吴剑旗说。 1999年,我国驻南联盟大使馆被炸,中国成了联合国5个常任理事国中唯一被隐身飞机轰炸过的国家,这更激起他们不造出反隐身雷达誓不罢休的斗志。 20年潜心研究,20年大胆实践。最终,吴剑旗带领团队探索形成了独有的反隐身先进米波雷达理论、建立了基础数据模型和相应的独有设计方法,研制出了中国独有的反隐身先进米波雷达,解决了我国防空骨干雷达能力被隐身飞机“清零”的问题。这些反隐身雷达从理论、设计到制造都是中国独有、独创,完全摆脱了对进口的依赖。

28年来,吴剑旗始终坚守使命、守望蓝天,他参与研制的DBF体制三坐标雷达,获得国家科技进步一等奖,标志着中国雷达首次赶上世界先进水平;主导研制的稀布阵综合脉冲孔径雷达试验系统、机动式米波三坐标雷达,先后获得国家科技进步二等奖,填补了我国反隐身雷达装备空白,主要指标世界领先。因成绩突出,他先后获得全国优秀科技工作者、全国创新争先奖等荣誉。

“下一步,我们将向第五代反隐身雷达进军,并努力实现分布式协同探测。”吴剑旗表示,第五代反隐身雷达从作战应用上来说,将用来“对付”具有超音速巡航、无人驾驶、两栖作战等特性的第五代隐形战机;从技术方向上来说,要将微波与光子技术结合,实现全息感知、智能化和软件化,不仅可以探测到隐形战机,还要能够辨别具体机型,甚至可以分辨出是哪一架飞机。

良好的创新环境,是科技创新的肥沃土壤。 “安徽为科技工作者创新、创业营造了非常好的环境,建立了‘四个一’创新主平台,创新生态和政策环境走在了全国前列。 ”吴剑旗表示,他将努力当好提升自主创新能力的开拓者、建设现代化经济体系的生力军、培养提携青年才俊的引路人,在反隐身雷达领域敢为人先、再进一步,并推动先进雷达技术服务于城市安全,为建设现代化五大发展美好安徽作出更多贡献。
 
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