Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[gambit]

I just defended a hardworking member at the Chinese Defence Column at PDF to forward his theory or thought, whether one agrees or disagrees with the information he presented.

Is that too much for you to take? And imagine... I don't even claim to be an American... with all the free things....

I have no problems with anyone presenting his hypothesis for discussions. Do note that I have consistently stay out of the J-20 engine debate.

But when someone starts bringing in spooky government agencies in trying to make himself look serious, as a former USAF guy who once had Top Secret clearance, I find that hard to swallow.

When I was on the F-111 at RAF Upper Heyford, I had Victor Alert duty...

http://www.airforcemag.com/MagazineArchive/Pages/2011/March 2011/0311victor.aspx

http://www.acc.af.mil/News/Features...3/30-years-past-20th-fw-role-in-victor-alert/

When an F-111 is scheduled for Victor Alert duty, the jet is armed with two live B61 free fall nuclear bombs and two external wing tanks enough to fly to Moscow and back. The jet is moved to a restricted part of the flightline. The aircrew is not allowed to be no more than one hr away from the jet and other than the gym, they must in duty uniform at all time. Throughout NATO bases in Western Europe, there are plenty of VA jets.

Am telling you details about a procedure that no one in this forum knew. Some of those procedures are still secret today.

So it is very hard for me to see and believe a civilian posting on an anonymous Internet forum on how spooky government agencies are monitoring his activities and, as he claimed, warned him about 'revealing' too much state secret. How can he 'reveal' anything ? To 'reveal' mean you must have actual access to start. So is he claiming to be an active duty PLA J-20 pilot or someone involved in the project ?

There is an old saying: How big you are depends on the size of your enemies.

So what Mr. Asoka is doing is making the Chinese government his enemy, thereby making himself look big in the eyes of gullible Chinese. You got played, buddy.

 

[samsara]

J-20

• Titanium 20%
• Composite 29%

https://twitter.com/x/status/909284371093372928

 

[j20blackdragon]

Look at the J-10B prototype numbering sequence...

1031

1033

1034

1035 (with WS-10), appeared in 2011.

All prototypes showed up prior to production in 2013, and the numbering sequence all stayed in the 1030s.

But for the J-20...

#2017: Last (AL-31?) prototype. November 2015.

#2101: (AL-31?) LRIP. December 2015.

#2021: First (WS-10X?) prototype? September 2017?!

Why the number skip? Why did the (WS-10X?) show up so late?

Look at the J-10 prototype numbering when it jumped from J-10B to J-10C.

The first J-10B prototype was #1031.

The first J-10C prototype was #1051.

The tens digit changed from '3' to '5'. This signifies the jump from J-10B to J-10C.

Now look at J-20.

The first silver prototype was #2011.

The current (WS-10X?) prototype is #2021.

The tens digit changed again.

See the pattern yet?

 

[Deino]

...
The tens digit changed again.
See the pattern yet?

Exactly my point ... so the 200x-demontrators were most likely just J-20, the 201x-prototypes were then eventually J-20A and if it indeed follows the pattern used by the J-10-series 202x-prototype would stand for a J-20B.

... even if that designation is most often "reserved" for the final WS-15-powered variant.

 

[j20blackdragon]

Yes.

#200X...first iteration.

#201X...second iteration.

#202X...third iteration.

I suspect something big has changed about the J-20. And it may (or may not) be just the engine.

 

[Deino]

So come on guys at CAC ... let's show us Your latest baby!

I'm eager to say HELLO.

 

[clibra]

I find NOSE to NOZZLE more meaningful, if we were to determine relative length of two planes, that mean exclude the Pitot tube and the long tail that extend from the rear of the plane, like the F-22. Some plane might be tailless like the French Mirage 2000 and Mig-21. View attachment 426308

From NOSE to NOZZLE, J-20 is 21.2m long (69.6ft), and F-22 is 17m long (55.8ft). The difference is 4.2M (13.8ft). We can argue whether these pictures are accurate representations. But they seems to be pretty professionally done.

Here is the length Comparison I made back in jan, 2017, and posted on PDF.

View attachment 426309

Note, J-20's body length is at least 3.5-4.5m (11.5ft-14.8ft) longer when compared NOSE to NOZZLE to F-22, excluding the pitot tube of J-20 and the long tail of F-22. I also found, if we cut out the Canard section of the J-20, which has the length of 3.5m, then J-20 and F-22 are pretty much the same size.

Also note the NOSE to NOZZLE length of Su-27 (excluding the long middle tail) is 21m, which confirms the satellite image that both Su-27 and J-20 are about the same length, from NOSE to NOZZLE.

It is by incorporating the Canards that made J-20 3.5-4.5m longer than F-22. From Dr. Song's seminal paper, the designers of J-20 have determined to include the Canards in their design, from the very beginning. So, the extra length is not accidental.

Evidently, they are willing to pay for the extra weight penalty for the superior performance offered by the Canards.

From this body length difference, I concluded J-20 is at least 2 tons heavier than F-22.

So this picture is the reason of your wrong calculation.

 

[STRANGER BIRD]

China #PLAAF #Chengdu #stealth #J20 possible #2021 observed.

 

[Deino]

China #PLAAF #Chengdu #stealth #J20 possible #2021 observed.

Yes maybe indeed ... but that image was taken on 28. July already.

 

[Figaro]

No, No, No again and once for all this is the final warning. The next time You twist words, You quote wrongly I will ban You.

If You read properly I noted the first estimation is by me while the second one made by "another member at another forum". Even more he is NOT estimating from nose to nozzle but from nose to the tails.

I think You really need a break. Take care of Your family and play with Your kids ...

Deino



I slowly come to the feeling that his new-borne son is most likely in fact a girl and similar to these stupid assumptions he only wants it to be a boy. So it is in fact not that difficult to omit certain small detail ... could happen anytime if the wish is only strong enough.




Me again with the quetsion, why these images You posted yesterday are named "J-20T" ???

I would much rather have a girl than a boy.

@Asoka. Please stop insisting on your J-20 length. Satellite imagery and various comparisons have indicated a length of around 20 meters for the J-20. Under the same measurements, the F-22 is 18.92 meters, which just so happens is its recorded length. Can we all end this useless discussion now? It seems we've suddenly turned back the clocks to 2011 ...

 

[Asoka]

@Figaro

You can insist on whatever you feel reasonable, and I will do the same, on my part. Last time, I checked. You are not an authority of anything, whom everyone must obey. So mind your own biz, plz.

Thanks for your strong and staunch moral support, hirobo2 !

 

[星海军事]

Yes maybe indeed ... but that image was taken on 28. July already.

View attachment 426498 View attachment 426499

This is definitely not 2021. The overexposure implies it is an object with high reflectivity.

 

[grey boy 2]

The shape, color changed, even though it isn't the final goal, performance may not needed to be upgraded, however, the present change of engine should an requirement for going forward with the evolution process

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

If there would be a 2D flat nozzle version for the J-20 in the near future, then it would definitely destroy the previous WS-15 theory.

Otherwise, nobody can easily tell which one is the WS-15, which one is not, unless the WS-15 got the 2D flat nozzle which can be easily distinguished.

 

[星海军事]

The shape, color changed, even though it isn't the final goal, performance may not needed to be upgraded, however, the present change of engine should an requirement for going forward with the evolution process

Sorry for letting you down, however this is only a model. Although I appreciate your enthusiasm, please do not repost from this account anymore.