Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[ChineseTiger1986]

That didn't stop you from recently ordering a large batch.

It was for our old J-10A and J-11A, since they were designed to be equipped with your engine.

However, the quality of your AL-31 is too subpar to be the engine of our much more superior J-10B and J-11B.

Once J-10A and J-11A are out of the service, then you will probably not see PLAAF operating your jet engines anymore.

 

[deep.ocean]

That didn't stop you from recently ordering a large batch.

Don't you know they generally import crap items and make them world class items by Reverse Enginnering...
We have plenty of examples Chinese innvation and creation..Don't we..

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

The real J20's grandpa and j10's father,CAC J9 (had been canceled)


CAC J9 twin vertical stabilizers concept

CAC J9 single vertical tail concept

Chengdu J-9 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Most likely this is the biological father of both J-10 and J-20, since J-10 is the older brother of J-20, not father.

 

[ptldM3]

It was for our old J-10A and J-11A, since they were designed to be equipped with your engine.

If Chinese designer made the WS-10 incompatible with the early J-10's and J-11's than they are simply fools. Why oh why wouldn't engineers want to make the WS-10 compatible with J-10A's and J-11A's so that they can simply replace the Russian engines when their life cycle is through instead of relying on Russian engines for the next decade or more? Fail.

They didn't think that one through did they? Or perhaps you just made up that claim? So which one is it? Are Chinese engineers that incompetent or did you just lie?

However, the quality of your AL-31 is too subpar to be the engine of our much more superior J-10B and J-11B.

Yea because the WS-10 is of the highest quality the WS-10 program has been plagued with quality issues.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

If Chinese designer made the WS-10 incompatible with the early J-10's and J-11's than they are simply fools. Why oh why wouldn't engineers want to make the WS-10 compatible with J-10A's and J-11A's so that they can simply replace the Russian engines when their life cycle is through?

They didn't think that one through did they? Or perhaps you just made up that claim? So which one is it? Are Chinese engineers that incompetent or did you just lie?

The WS-10 engine was successful back in 2005, whereas J-11A entered in service back 1999 and J-10A in 2003.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Yea because the WS-10 is of the highest quality the WS-10 program has been plagued with quality issues.

Yeah, the usage WS-10 has became more and more popular as they just install it to naval aircraft like J-15 and single engined aircraft like J-10B.

And this means they have so many issues with it, meanwhile India's Kaveri is so successful as the whole program just got terminated. What a wonderful logic you just provided here.

 

[ptldM3]

The WS-10 engine was successful back in 2005, whereas J-11A entered in service back 1999 and J-10A in 2003.

Clearing some bench tests does not make an engine successful, Chinese pilots complained of performance issues back in 2007 and even as recently as 2009 Lin Zuoming stated that the WS-10 had quality issues. Regardless of when the WS-10 entered service the production line of both the J-11A and J-10A lasted years beyond their introductory dates.


In total China operates over 200 J-10A's and J-11A's, one has to not only factor in time between overhauls TBO but also engine life and lets not forget that the J-11 uses 2 engines. Both the J-10A and J-11A will remain in service for a long time likely at least a decade.

So again, were Chinese engineers that incompetent and foolish to make the WS-10 incompatible with J-10A's and J-11A's? What is even the point of making the engine incompatible? If they were smart they would make all their engines universal so that when a J-10A's or J-11A's engines are due to be replaced they can replace them with Chinese made ones that are likely cheaper than the imported Al-31 counterparts. Again assuming that what you said is true, the incompetence level at Shenyang is at a fever pitch.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Clearing some bench tests does not make an engine successful, Chinese pilots complained of performance issues back in 2007 and even as recently as 2009 Lin Zuoming stated that the WS-10 had quality issues. Regardless of when the WS-10 entered service the production line of both the J-11A and J-10A lasted years beyond their introductory dates.


In total China operates over 200 J-10A's and J-11A's, one has to not only factor in time between overhauls TBO but also engine life and lets not forget that the J-11 uses 2 engines. Both the J-10A and J-11A will remain in service for a long time likely at least a decade.

So again, were Chinese engineers that incompetent and foolish to make the WS-10 incompatible with J-10A's and J-11A's? What is even the point of making the engine incompatible? If they were smart they would make all their engines universal so that when a J-10A's or J-11A's engines are due to be replaced they can replace them with Chinese made ones that are likely cheaper than the imported Al-31 counterparts. Again assuming that what you said is true, the incompetence level at Shenyang is at a fever pitch.

The report by Mr.Lin back in April 2009 was about few minor issues when WS-10 was producing in large quantity.

This is due the corruption of a director from one particular factory. Afterall we just caught that muthafcker few months later and shot him in the head.

Overall nothing big issues happened to WS-10, since its design is nearly flawless. There was one crash of J-11B that happened few years ago, but the failure had nothing to do with WS-10.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

And since WS-10 and AL-31 are totally unrelated to each other, they have different size/length/diameter.

You certainly cannot fit WS-10 into J-11A when it was designed to fit with AL-31, a engine with totally diffrent size.

Unless you have to redesign J-11A, which will waste more money to modify the older aircraft.

The J-10B with a golden Taihang engine is in fact a naval J-10C, since the real J-10B was designed many years ago to fit with AL-31FN.

 

[April.lyrics]

all we need is time.we dont need to debate on ws-10 or al-31f.we dont have the detail data.

but we have time.ALL we need is to see how many PLAF engines will be used on chinese fighters.

but i have heard Russian engines' life time is short compared with American's.i heard russian fighters such as Su-27 or else need 3 or 4 pair of engines during its life time.while americans such as F15/F16 just need the original one. is it true?

if this is true.Those AL-31Fs we bought several days ago maybe a store for future use.

but WS-10 still can not be large-scale equiped.

PS:forgive my chineseway english~~i would like to talk about this in mother language.many of my opinion can not be expressed well

 

[ptldM3]

The report by Mr.Lin back in April 2009 was about few minor issues when WS-10 was producing in large quantity.

There is zero room, absolutely zero room for any issues in an engine design, minor or not, the slightest imperfection with the compressor blades could cause a catastrophic failure, a loose screw or loose faulty gasket can also cause a catastrophic failure.

This is due the corruption of a director from one particular factory. Now we just caught this fcker few months later and shot him in the head.

And what was he guilty of? An engines quality is only as good as its manufacturing process allows it to be, meaning if you have precision machinery you will have precise components. If you have employees with the latest tools you will have the best quality, meaning that instead of traditional wrenches you give them torque wrenches which will allow for precise torque specifications.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

all we need is time.we dont need to debate on ws-10 or al-31f.we dont have the detail data.

but we have time.ALL we need is to see how many PLAF engines will be used on chinese fighters.

but i have heard Russian engines' life time is short compared with American's.i heard russian fighters such as Su-27 or else need 3 or 4 pair of engines during its life time.while americans such as F15/F16 just need the original one. is it true?

if this is true.Those AL-31Fs we bought several days ago maybe a store for future use.

but WS-10 still can not be large-scale equiped.

PS:forgive my chineseway english~~i would like to talk about this in mother language.many of my opinion can not be expressed well

More than hundred J-11B have all equipped with WS-10A, later J-15/J-10B/J-10C, so this is still not good enough for you?

太行几年前就行了，只不过被西方媒体和国内一些神棍小白给不断的抹黑而已

 

[April.lyrics]

这个我倒是不清楚。我只是听说歼15测试的时候用的太行，歼十B也在用太行测试。还有就是看到有装备太行的歼11，但是只看到一架。我想要想确定太行是否真的成功了，还得看是否有整批次装备它的战斗机吧。不过毛子说的问题也是，前一段时间进口的那批AL31是给歼十用的？新批次的歼十还是用来储备更换旧批次的？

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

这个我倒是不清楚。我只是听说歼15测试的时候用的太行，歼十B也在用太行测试。还有就是看到有装备太行的歼11，但是只看到一架。我想要想确定太行是否真的成功了，还得看是否有整批次装备它的战斗机吧。不过毛子说的问题也是，前一段时间进口的那批AL31是给歼十用的？新批次的歼十还是用来储备更换旧批次的？

早就成熟了，不然不会把它装在舰载机和J-10上面的

舰载机的发动机可靠性要求要比普通发动机高得多，应为在海洋那里对发动机有高度的腐蚀性

而歼10B/C上面装太行这更是证明太行现在可靠性相当的高，不需要两个发动机同时才能保证在空中不熄火

那个煞笔毛子一天到晚喜欢黑中国，大家别理他就是了

咱们的四代发动机的核心机都成功了，而毛子所谓的四代核心机还停留在纸上呢

 

[S10]

WS-10 was certified in 2005, and began testing on J-11B. However, limited production stopped in 2007 after quality control issues surfaced, leading to several accidents. Production restarted again in 2009, and now close to 100 J-11Bs are in service. J-10B will also be equipped with the engine, going into service early next year.

---------- Post added at 02:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:32 PM ----------

And what was he guilty of? An engines quality is only as good as its manufacturing process allows it to be, meaning if you have precision machinery you will have precise components. If you have employees with the latest tools you will have the best quality, meaning that instead of traditional wrenches you give them torque wrenches which will allow for precise torque specifications.

Taking funds for R&D as well as manufacturing equipment upgrade to invest in stock market.