Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[PWFI]

Is there anything like europeen Meteor long range BVR missile under devlopement in china?

 

[kungfugymnast]

More likely the brains of some of our Indian friends have ceased to function。

Anyway the actual range of the PL-15 is longer than what the report suggests。

And the PL-21，an ultra long-range AAM missile，is only a couple of years from deployment。

The j20 could carry 6 pl15 in main internal bay is practical. The side bay woupd be better if it could fit 2 missiles at each side or large enough to fit pl~12 allowing full air to ground armaments to be carried in main bay.

 

[Obambam]

you really have a vision problem``

Go easy on him buddy.

I once had the same problem differentiating the brahmos from the yakhont. It sucks to have bad eyesight.

 

[Beidou2020]

Is there anything like europeen Meteor long range BVR missile under devlopement in china?

PL-21

 

[Zarvan]

China’s short-range air-to-air missile, the PL-10, which has been test fired 30 times, is close to deployment abroad fighter jets such as the J-20 and the J-11.

The PL-10 is ‘nearly ready’ according to comments made by Liang Xiaogeng, chief designer of the Luoyang Electro-Optical Research Institute, which designed the missile. The missile has largely competed development and testing on various aerial platforms, the designer added.

This new missile is fitted with a multi-element imaging infrared seeker with anti-jamming capabilities, weighs 89 kg, has a length of 3 m, and a range of 20 km. It has been in development for seven years, a prototype was completed in 2013.

Western and Chinese experts have deduced from photographs that the missile has a thrust vectoring nozzle and aft fins to impart super manoeuvrability to it so as to defeat on board defence systems of fighter aircraft. Chinese media has reported that missile is the most advanced air-to-air missile in the country’s armoury and will likely be placed on fighter aircraft such as the J-20 stealth fighter and the J-11 fourth generation fighter.

Chinese Super Manoeuvrable Air-to-air Missile Closer to Deployment

 

[Goenitz]

thrust vectoring nozzle

any chance to evade these missiles... ECM ?

 

[kungfugymnast]

any chance to evade these missiles... ECM ?

Chaff, ECM, Flare will soon becone useless when all new air to air missiles are becoming more advanced. These new missiles are much harder to fool nowadays. Most have advanced seeker, superior maneuverability and ECCM to counter ecm.

British made starstreak is mws & laser guided yet capable of reaching mach 4 making it the fastest and deadliest manpads ever. Chaff, flare, ecm has no effect on starstreak.

New anti~missile that launch multiple debris explosives like trophy, shtora, arena system used in tanks are needed for aircraft. Only that could destroy incoming missile rather than fooling it. New sensors like mini radar need to be fitted at rear.

 

[BoQ77]

Long range missile has very low kill rate.
AIM-54 Phoenix

Will China continue build KJ-2000 ?

How far KJ-2000 could detect F-35 ?

While the F-35 and other stealth aircraft are optimised for the X band, many ground radars use what is known as VHF radar, which has a larger wavelength than X band radar.

What this means, is that the emissions from this radar effectively ignore the shape of objects smaller than it's wavelength, including some of the stealthy shaping on aircraft like the F-22 and F-35. These stealth aircraft do have features designed to reduce it's radar signature against many different frequencies, including VHF radar, but due to the physics involved, are not yet able to achieve signature reductions to the same level as in the X band. While this may appear to be a major threat, VHF radar and radars similar in frequency do have a critical flaw, in that they require significantly larger antennas. This is because in order to transmit or receive a certain frequency, you need to have an antenna sized to a certain multiple of the wavelength. This therefore requires low frequency radars, which have much larger wavelengths, to be large in size, limiting or eliminating their mobility and making them easy targets for long range missile strikes.

In addition, whereas an X band radar can have hundreds or thousands of transmitters and receivers, allowing for a high resolution track of a target, a low frequency radar is much more limited in it's number of T R modules and therefore cannot be used to guide a missile onto a fighter sized target, unless that target is within very close proximity. When an F-117 was infamously shot down in Serbia, it was shot down not because the low frequency radar detected it at long range, but rather, because the F 1 17 had flown the same route many times, had come within a few tens of kilometers of the radar, had it's bomb bay doors open increasing it's signature, and had no on board equipment to realise that it was being targeted by an enemy. In contrast, an F-35 in the same position would have rapidly detected and triangulated the position of the enemy radar, and then been able to adjust it's route to avoid it, or destroy it.

 

[Oldman1]

any chance to evade these missiles... ECM ?

As you can see the flares were useless against AIM 9x missiles. All they have to do is look at you and shoot. Don't need to get behind the enemy aircraft. And this was many years ago testing it.

 

[kungfugymnast]

Long range missile has very low kill rate.
Will China continue build KJ-2000 ?

How far KJ-2000 could detect F-35 ?

While the F-35 and other stealth aircraft are optimised for the X band, many ground radars use what is known as VHF radar, which has a larger wavelength than X band radar.

What this means, is that the emissions from this radar effectively ignore the shape of objects smaller than it's wavelength, including some of the stealthy shaping on aircraft like the F-22 and F-35. These stealth aircraft do have features designed to reduce it's radar signature against many different frequencies, including VHF radar, but due to the physics involved, are not yet able to achieve signature reductions to the same level as in the X band. While this may appear to be a major threat, VHF radar and radars similar in frequency do have a critical flaw, in that they require significantly larger antennas. This is because in order to transmit or receive a certain frequency, you need to have an antenna sized to a certain multiple of the wavelength. This therefore requires low frequency radars, which have much larger wavelengths, to be large in size, limiting or eliminating their mobility and making them easy targets for long range missile strikes.

In addition, whereas an X band radar can have hundreds or thousands of transmitters and receivers, allowing for a high resolution track of a target, a low frequency radar is much more limited in it's number of T R modules and therefore cannot be used to guide a missile onto a fighter sized target, unless that target is within very close proximity. When an F-117 was infamously shot down in Serbia, it was shot down not because the low frequency radar detected it at long range, but rather, because the F 1 17 had flown the same route many times, had come within a few tens of kilometers of the radar, had it's bomb bay doors open increasing it's signature, and had no on board equipment to realise that it was being targeted by an enemy. In contrast, an F-35 in the same position would have rapidly detected and triangulated the position of the enemy radar, and then been able to adjust it's route to avoid it, or destroy it.

Long range missiles are meant for intercepting non~stealth aircraft, bombers, cruise missiles and when AESA/PESA managed to detect & track air to air missiles, you could intercept missile with missile. For stealth fighter, you'll need to get into less than 20 or 10 miles in order to engage. My class started, reply you more afterwards

 

[kungfugymnast]

As you can see the flares were useless against AIM 9x missiles. All they have to do is look at you and shoot. Don't need to get behind the enemy aircraft. And this was many years ago testing it.

Not just aim9x, several new missiles cannot be fooled by decoy and ecm too. Once below 10 miles, the f22/35 already lost stealth advantage allowing enemy fighters to track and launch missiles. The dogfight between rafale & f22 shows that the rafale less advanced radar could detect f22 at 5miles range. Stealth is useless when below 10 miles

 

[Oldman1]

Not just aim9x, several new missiles cannot be fooled by decoy and ecm too. Once below 10 miles, the f22/35 already lost stealth advantage allowing enemy fighters to track and launch missiles. The dogfight between rafale & f22 shows that the rafale less advanced radar could detect f22 at 5miles range. Stealth is useless when below 10 miles

The dogfight was pretty much controlled and on purpose where they went within visually. Had it been real combat, the F-22 would have detected and fired its missiles and the Rafale would have been shot down before it even realized it.

 

[Dungeness]

More likely the brains of some of our Indian friends have ceased to function。

Anyway the actual range of the PL-15 is longer than what the report suggests。

And the PL-21，an ultra long-range AAM missile，is only a couple of years from deployment。

Don't you guys know One expression of "Cheap Chinese Copies" plus Three exclamation marks always makes an effective pain killer for some?

 

[rcrmj]

Go easy on him buddy.

I once had the same problem differentiating the brahmos from the yakhont. It sucks to have bad eyesight.

welcome back mate``havent seen u in a bit

 

[Deino]