Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[xunzi]

Thats not true. The F-22 was designed with air dominance in mind, it has a limited ground attack capability. The F-35 is a mule that was supposed to carry out roles the F-22 cannot. China will use both of its jets in a similar configuration.

Then why the US resist any attempt to export F-22 but they are willing to export the F-35? Truth is F-22 is better and is exclusive for US military.

 

[Kompromat]

Then why the US resist any attempt to export F-22 but they are willing to export the F-35? Truth is F-22 is better and is exclusive for US military.

Because the F-22 is the best air dominance aircraft in the world. F-35 is simply not comparable as it never was designed to be an air dominance air craft. It was designed to become a Joint Strike Fighter able to carry weapons the F-22 simply cannot.

 

[xunzi]

Because the F-22 is the best air dominance aircraft in the world. F-35 is simply not comparable as it never was designed to be an air dominance air craft. It was designed to become a Joint Strike Fighter able to carry weapons the F-22 simply cannot.

What makes an aircraft air dominance?

 

[Kompromat]

What makes an aircraft air dominance?

Optimized stealth, A powerful air to air radar, Mid Range AMRAAMs, World's best sensor fusion, 5th generation avionics, super maneuverability and a very high climb rate.

The Raptor's designed philosophy was to spearhead the attack and establish air dominance over an airspace by knocking enemy aircrafts down with BVRAAMs before they can see it. Then it also carries WVRAAMs which are coupled with super maneuverability and soon HOBS AIM-9X block II + an HMD.

Raptor was not designed to carry air to ground weapons as a primary requirement though it can carry certain types of air to ground weapons if the need be. The F-35 was designed as the 2nd entry aircraft which would bomb targets once the Raptors have cleaned up the skies. JSF is a multirole fighter which can also engage air to air target though that is not its primary role.

China is following a similar path. The J-20 will lead its younger brother the J-31 into battle. It would sweep the skies through similar characteristics as the F-22 while the J-31 would take care of the other targets mainly ground or surface as well as SEAD and DEAD missions. This would open a hole for H-6 to come in and deliver a hammering along with 4th generation aircrafts.

J-20 may not be an export success even if China offers it for export as there would be only a handful of countries able to afford it and even fewer who actually need an Air Dominance Fighter which inherently is an offensive weapon. J-31 on the other hand if developed along the same lines as the F-35 would become an export success as it can do all of the work that needs to be done for most air forces.

Lets say if PAF is the first customer for the J-31. We would want a true multi role/swing role capability in that air craft as we don't really need an Air Dominance Fighter. We can optimize the J-31 for the same role in a defensive posture as well as use it as a bomb truck and to attack enemy ships and carry out SEAD and DEAD missions along with our cruise missiles.

 

[waz]

Good, the Fifth Prototype (2013) is coming as well, WS-15 could be used as early as next year. J-20 is on schedule for 2016-2017.

So at this point in time I take it no Chinese engine powers any of the prototypes at this point in time?

 

[Viper0011.]

J-31 is a baby compare to J-20. J-20 is the real big boy because J-20 has double-engine. There is a reason the US never export two engine F-22 but instead they make the F-35 single engine for export. They claim it is more reliable but we know the truth is the US don't want their allies to match their two engine F-22.

There are various reasons. The US doesn't want to share the F-22 tech with anyone as it is way ahead of its time and there is a LOT of sensitive tech that is proprietary of the US and the jet's manufacturer. Plus the funding etc also came from the US entirely as it forms the "High" combat tier of the US jet force. So you don't start to share your most strategic asset.

Also, the JSF is a multi-role platform designed for a Tier II (Medium) aircraft in the US inventory and for NATO / Allies. The investment also came from the US plus its allies Besides the US, there is no one that has such a larger military focus. So there won't be buyers out there wanting something like the -22 for over 200 million per plane. The world wants multi-role and the JSF also uses some advance technologies similar to that of the -22 uses. But the -22 is much superior

 

[Basel]

Besides the US, there is no one that has such a larger military focus. So there won't be buyers out there wanting something like the -22 for over 200 million per plane. The world wants multi-role and the JSF also uses some advance technologies similar to that of the -22 uses. But the -22 is much superior

But Japan was eager to have 22s, but US denied them, this was the reason Japan started their own Stealth fighter project which US wanted to stop by offering them F-35s.

J-20 from its current looks seem to be deep strike fighter jet, which will allow PLAAF to conduct SEAD/DEAD mission even in very highly guarded areas.

J-31/21 design looks more air combat / swing role oriented although its engines are not on par for a stealth jet and it may not carry good amount of weapons too, to me its 5th gen Mig-29.

 

[Viper0011.]

But Japan was eager to have 22s, but US denied them, this was the reason Japan started their own Stealth fighter project which US wanted to stop by offering them F-35s.

J-20 from its current looks seem to be deep strike fighter jet, which will allow PLAAF to conduct SEAD/DEAD mission even in very highly guarded areas.

J-31/21 design looks more air combat / swing role oriented although its engines are not on par for a stealth jet and it may not carry good amount of weapons too, to me its 5th gen Mig-29.

When the US is committed to defending Japan and has presence in and around Japan, the -22's become a "wish list", not a necessity. The Japanese sure can design their stealth jet and that would definitely have American input in it (a LOT). That's no problem as they did that with their F-2 also.
But their Stealth plane won't be anything closer to the -22. That's for sure. The -22 is way above being JUST a Stealthy plane. For Japan's needs and threat assessments, the -35 would be more than enough, backed up by USAF and USN's jets as needed. Plus there are -22's stationed there too. Also, ONE country doesn't change the foreign policy of the US, whether it be on sensitive weapons or anything else. If you see the history, the US has not sold its strategic jets like the -117, B1, B2, -22, etc.

J-20 is stealthy and that's fine. However, its still going through prototypes. I think the assessment is that these will start to be become operational by 2018-2020. May be by then every Radar we produce and sell to our allies, will be able to detect Stealthy planes just like a normal plane .
2018 to 2020 is TOO much time for us to counter it. Not worried about it. This brings up another question. You've got a Stealthy platform, fine, how do you plan on using it for SEAD / DEAD and other roles as a strike plane when you can't establish air dominance? The J-20 can be seen by newer fighters in the US arsenal from LONG distances through IR and AN/AAQ-37 electro-optical Distributed Aperture System (DAS). So how useful this puppy will be without having credible air dominance and facing -35's and -22's....???. Read up on DAS for a second and use your imagination. It can detect a missile's after-burn and can visualize it from 800 miles. Imagine a stealthy J-20 getting detected even 200 miles out.....
AN/AAQ-37 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Basel]

When the US is committed to defending Japan and has presence in and around Japan, the -22's become a "wish list", not a necessity. The Japanese sure can design their stealth jet and that would definitely have American input in it (a LOT). That's no problem as they did that with their F-2 also.
But their Stealth plane won't be anything closer to the -22. That's for sure. The -22 is way above being JUST a Stealthy plane. For Japan's needs and threat assessments, the -35 would be more than enough, backed up by USAF and USN's jets as needed. Plus there are -22's stationed there too. Also, ONE country doesn't change the foreign policy of the US, whether it be on sensitive weapons or anything else. If you see the history, the US has not sold its strategic jets like the -117, B1, B2, -22, etc.
J-20 is stealthy and that's fine. However, its still going through prototypes. I think the assessment is that these will start to be become operational by 2018-2020. May be by then every Radar we produce and sell to our allies, will be able to detect Stealthy planes just like a normal plane .
2018 to 2020 is TOO much time for us to counter it. Not worried about it. This brings up another question. You've got a Stealthy platform, fine, how do you plan on using it for SEAD / DEAD and other roles as a strike plane when you can't establish air dominance? The J-20 can be seen by newer fighters in the US arsenal from LONG distances through IR and AN/AAQ-37 electro-optical Distributed Aperture System (DAS). So how useful this puppy will be without having credible air dominance and facing -35's and -22's....???. Read up on DAS for a second and use your imagination. It can detect a missile's after-burn and can visualize it from 800 miles. Imagine a stealthy J-20 getting detected even 200 miles out.....
AN/AAQ-37 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

US is ahead in tech but it does not mean that no one other than them can make tech, I m not fan of Chinese products but when I visited F-22P I really admire the quality of the product they have made, J-20 from its looks will be Chinese mini B-2 and you know how US have used them, so Chinese may use them similarly. Also no anti stealth radar is going to be deployed in numbers "if it has been invented" even in 2020.

As for your claim about F-35 tech, US it self has accepted that China have hacked in and taken its tech from their machines to built their own, if true then Chinese already know what DAS can do and they will be building their own, when they will be building one then definitely they know that enemy has it and their plane will be detected so counter measure will be under development too, that is how Chinese work.

 

[cirr]

2012

It's about time。

 

[nik141991]

 

[Informant]

J-20 is one bad mother.

 

[Sasquatch]

2012

It's about time。

As expected the 2012 here, 2013 prototype is also coming. what I'm waiting is for the WS15 installed onto it, some word the WS15 will feature 2D TVC square nozzles like the F-22's F119 engines.

 

[UKBengali]

As expected the 2012 here, 2013 prototype is also coming. what I'm waiting is for the WS15 installed onto it, some word the WS15 will feature 2D TVC square nozzles like the F-22's F119 engines.

Any idea when WS-15 would be installed for testing?

 

[Sasquatch]

Any idea when WS-15 would be installed for testing?

2016.