Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[amalakas]

I not only finished answering you yet, but neither replying Gambit, amalakas and other yet as well, as I said I was traveling overseas. You can see that on my previous post.

I dont see Gambit answered the same question you directed to me; please show me one - maybe I am wrong

You just enjoy your vacation buddy. It's good for ya

 

[gambit]

I not only finished answering you yet, but neither replying Gambit, amalakas and other yet as well, as I said I was traveling overseas. You can see that on my previous post.

I dont see Gambit answered the same question you directed to me; please show me one - maybe I am wrong

You are not going to answer his question. You do not know what I gave him. I bet you do not even know what he asked. There is nothing to prevent you from answering his question IF you even understood what he asked.

 

[gambit]

Of course because fan blade is placed in front of the moving parts of the engine that make it much more exposed to radar wave, not mainly because as you explained above, you idiot.

You have a serious reading comprehension problem regarding technical language. You basically repeated what I said in different form, then tells me I am wrong.

In fact the traveling wave still could reach the hidden fan blades, but its weak and will be absorbed by RAM coating the wall of airduct easily.

We are talking about AFTER those signals breached the foremost fan blades. Not before. So absorber is not the issue here.

Then what is the exposed items at the Cone?

Nothing but the cone itself. If you are so certain that there are exposed translation mechanisms, then show us a source. Do you even know the proper context of 'translation' here?

Why do you think Cone is less hidding the fan blade compared to DSI?

Yours is a childish method of debate by answering questions with questions. It is a sign of ignorance of the subject matter.

I dont feel as an expert by the smilies. I just feel funny to see how you are trying hard to legitimate your self claimed expert, and with inaccurate even misconceptions

Then show us what an 'expert' YOU are. You claimed to have an aviation 'background' and 'study'. Since aviation have many sub disciplines, what was your 'study'? So far we know it is not even in basic aerodynamics.

Dont try to evade.. this is why you look so hilarious and funny, as you cant answer the question then evade with childhood act by drag question that you feel you can answer and answer it yourself like the above

I am still waiting your answer resulting from your own explanation:

Explain how this way of work will absorb the "traveling wave" ?

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/chines...ft-updates-discussions-182.html#ixzz24Q9P8irG

I bet you cant answer?

I already answered it but will again. The surface is EM transparent and allows penetration into the substrate where the portions of the traveling wave will be attenuated by embedded ferrite particles. I bet you do not even understand what I just said.

Q: In a 'bicycle' landing gear configuration, what item counter-balances another item? Hint: High speed.
A: At high speed for a 'bicycle' landing gear config, as in higher than normal take-off/landing for the aircraft, the front gear will bear a disproportionate load of force and potential for instability exist, however, at the same time there exists sufficient aerodynamic forces at the rudder to counterbalance.

This make a dozen basic aerodynamics and seven flight controls engineering questions that you failed to answer despite claiming an aviation 'background' and 'study' that you tried to use to shut down the Indians.

Next...This question will touch on your philosophical understanding of Engineering as a profession in general.

Q: What are the three principles of Engineering in order of establishments and priority?

Here is the definition of 'establishment'...

Verb: Set up (an organization, system, or set of rules) on a firm or permanent basis.

Now here is the next flight controls engineering question...

Q: Why the F-111 and F-14 have no ailerons?

 

[antonius123]

You are not going to answer his question. You do not know what I gave him. I bet you do not even know what he asked. There is nothing to prevent you from answering his question IF you even understood what he asked.

I can answer his question if he prove to be genuine, not a cheerleader.

In fact you dont answer his question.

Your explanation about semi transparent absorbent is not making sense, as the semi transparent meant is not like what you are describing. Semi transparent mean that some wave go through the material.

You also fail to explain about how the absorbent material absorb the traveling wave.

 

[amalakas]

I can answer his question if he prove to be genuine, not a cheerleader.

In fact you dont answer his question.

Your explanation about semi transparent absorbent is not making sense, as the semi transparent meant is not like what you are describing. Semi transparent mean that some wave go through the material.

You also fail to explain about how the absorbent material absorb the traveling wave.

..........................................

 

[gambit]

I can answer his question if he prove to be genuine, not a cheerleader.

In other words, you have no idea what he asked at all. Just another evasion.

In fact you dont answer his question.

Yes I did. In a private message. I want to see if you even understood what he was asking for.

Your explanation about semi transparent absorbent is not making sense, as the semi transparent meant is not like what you are describing. Semi transparent mean that some wave go through the material.

A composite material is composed of many different materials. Each of them can have different permissivity to allow penetration. Do you even understand what I just said?

You also fail to explain about how the absorbent material absorb the traveling wave.

Yes I did. This is how you 'debate'. You have no technical education so you do not understand technical language. In response, all you can do is consistently accuse others of not explaining themselves.

To continue...

Q: What are the three principles of Engineering in order of establishments and priority?

Here is the definition of 'establishment'...

Verb: Set up (an organization, system, or set of rules) on a firm or permanent basis.

Now here is the next flight controls engineering question...

Q: Why the F-111 and F-14 have no ailerons?

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/chines...ft-updates-discussions-183.html#ixzz24TdanumS

 

[antonius123]

You have a serious reading comprehension problem regarding technical language. You basically repeated what I said in different form, then tells me I am wrong.

If that is the case, then you dont answer my question yet.

This is my question: "If the traveling wave could reach the hidden moving parts, then why should it exposed in order to contribute to RCS? idiot?"

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/chines...ft-updates-discussions-182.html#ixzz24TiovKsL


Then this is what you tried to answer:

There are plenty of moving parts behind the engine blades, but the parts that actually contribute the greatest to engine RCS are the foremost fan blades.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/chines...ft-updates-discussions-182.html#ixzz24TchcqiS

What is the relevance of your answer with my question?

Everybody knows that Fanblade contribute more to RCS than moving parts behind it.
Just like everybody knows that the cone (of mig-21) contribute more to RCS than the moving parts behind it.

We have agreed that the point we are debating here is not the cone or fanblade itself as RCS contributor, but how the moving part could contribute to RCS.

We are talking about AFTER those signals breached the foremost fan blades. Not before. So absorber is not the issue here.

The same!

The traveling wave reflected from the blade will be absorbed by the RAM coating.

Nothing but the cone itself. If you are so certain that there are exposed translation mechanisms, then show us a source. Do you even know the proper context of 'translation' here?

Nothing?

This is what you said:
The ramp and the cone and variations of the cone have more such exposed items and none are from translating mechanisms.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/chines...ft-updates-discussions-182.html#ixzz24TdqNN7f

Which more exposed items of the cone you mean?

Yours is a childish method of debate by answering questions with questions. It is a sign of ignorance of the subject matter.

I am not answering, in fact I am asking what you are claiming!
If your statement false, then your argument ruins.

You seem trying to evade, why? cant you answered that?

Then show us what an 'expert' YOU are. You claimed to have an aviation 'background' and 'study'. Since aviation have many sub disciplines, what was your 'study'? So far we know it is not even in basic aerodynamics.

You are stupid.

I've told you : "I dont feel as an expert by the smilies."

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/chines...ft-updates-discussions-183.html#ixzz24TfSiHFC

It is you who claim as an Aviation Expert with educational and professional background

I already answered it but will again. The surface is EM transparent and allows penetration into the substrate where the portions of the traveling wave will be attenuated by embedded ferrite particles. I bet you do not even understand what I just said.

Wrong!

The right explanation is: EM waves induce molecular oscillations from the alternating magnetic field in this paint, which leads to conversion of the radar energy into heat. The heat is then transferred to the aircraft and dissipated.

Nothing to do with EM transparent, as I said: EM transparent mean that part of EM wave is going through the material, part is reflected, or part is absorbed in case of RAM coat.

Q: In a 'bicycle' landing gear configuration, what item counter-balances another item? Hint: High speed.
A: At high speed for a 'bicycle' landing gear config, as in higher than normal take-off/landing for the aircraft, the front gear will bear a disproportionate load of force and potential for instability exist, however, at the same time there exists sufficient aerodynamic forces at the rudder to counterbalance.

This make a dozen basic aerodynamics and seven flight controls engineering questions that you failed to answer despite claiming an aviation 'background' and 'study' that you tried to use to shut down the Indians.

Next...This question will touch on your philosophical understanding of Engineering as a profession in general.

Q: What are the three principles of Engineering in order of establishments and priority?

Here is the definition of 'establishment'...

Verb: Set up (an organization, system, or set of rules) on a firm or permanent basis.

Now here is the next flight controls engineering question...

Q: Why the F-111 and F-14 have no ailerons?

This is what we call a childish attitude.

Nobody is debating the above topic, but you are throwing the question to show off.

..........................................

What a loyal cheer leader you are

In other words, you have no idea what he asked at all. Just another evasion.

That is only your assumption.

Yes I did. In a private message. I want to see if you even understood what he was asking for.

Hahahaha

You are the one who like to show off, why dont you answer his question here so that all readers can read and thank you ?

I understand what he is asking.
But I want to see if you understand with what you are trying to explain first.

A composite material is composed of many different materials. Each of them can have different permissivity to allow penetration. Do you even understand what I just said?

I understand what you said.

Do you understand my point?

That your explanation is strange and not according to the science.
There is no semi transparent as you explain.

The semi transparent mean that part of the wave is going through the material.

The semi permissivity or semi transparent is not the one that make EM wave absorbed;

Yes I did. This is how you 'debate'. You have no technical education so you do not understand technical language. In response, all you can do is consistently accuse others of not explaining themselves.

Ok.

But your answer is wrong.
See my reply as the above.

To continue...

Q: What are the three principles of Engineering in order of establishments and priority?

Here is the definition of 'establishment'...

Verb: Set up (an organization, system, or set of rules) on a firm or permanent basis.

Now here is the next flight controls engineering question...

Q: Why the F-111 and F-14 have no ailerons?

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/chines...ft-updates-discussions-183.html#ixzz24TdanumS

Dont be childish.
We are not debating these topics, just focus on topic we are debating, dont try to evade!

 

[gambit]

If that is the case, then you dont answer my question yet.

This is my question: "If the traveling wave could reach the hidden moving parts, then why should it exposed in order to contribute to RCS? idiot?"

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/chines...ft-updates-discussions-182.html#ixzz24TiovKsL


Then this is what you tried to answer:

There are plenty of moving parts behind the engine blades, but the parts that actually contribute the greatest to engine RCS are the foremost fan blades.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/chines...ft-updates-discussions-182.html#ixzz24TchcqiS

What is the relevance of your answer with my question?

Everybody knows that Fanblade contribute more to RCS than moving parts behind it.
Just like everybody knows that the cone (of mig-21) contribute more to RCS than the moving parts behind it.

We have agreed that the point we are debating here is not the cone or fanblade itself as RCS contributor, but how the moving part could contribute to RCS.

If the hidden parts of the engine does not contribute to RCS, then the cone's translation mechanisms also will not contribute to RCS. That is the relevance.

Remember, it was YOU who said this...

Do you understand that Cone will be heavier, and the moving parts contributes bigger RCS?

Cone translating mechanisms are out of radar view. So even if any diffracted signals happened to make contact with them, their contributorship will be either none or statistically insignificant. So for you to say that 'moving parts contribute to bigger RCS' mean those translating mechanisms must be exposed to radar view. Show us a source that have a jet engine fighter with a conical intake that have exposed cone translating mechanisms. Simple enough request, right?

The same!

The traveling wave reflected from the blade will be absorbed by the RAM coating.

There are no absorber inside the engine core. So you are way off base here.

Nothing?

This is what you said:
The ramp and the cone and variations of the cone have more such exposed items and none are from translating mechanisms.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/chines...ft-updates-discussions-182.html#ixzz24TdqNN7f

Which more exposed items of the cone you mean?

The cone itself. For the ramp, we have many sharp edges and angles. For the DSI inlet, we have only half a cone. That is why the cone and the ramp are higher RCS contributors but NOT FROM TRANSLATING MECHANISMS. I bet you do not understand a word I used.

I am not answering, in fact I am asking what you are claiming!
If your statement false, then your argument ruins.

You seem trying to evade, why? cant you answered that?

You are correct that you do not answer. Because you are a fraud.

Wrong!

The right explanation is: EM waves induce molecular oscillations from the alternating magnetic field in this paint, which leads to conversion of the radar energy into heat. The heat is then transferred to the aircraft and dissipated.

Nothing to do with EM transparent, as I said: EM transparent mean that part of EM wave is going through the material, part is reflected, or part is absorbed in case of RAM coat.

And how do we have that molecular vibrations? Through permissivity or permittivity which equate to degrees of transparency.

If you are going to lift your answer from wiki, be honest and give the source...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radar-absorbent_materialv

One of the most commonly known types of RAM is iron ball paint. It contains tiny spheres coated with carbonyl iron or ferrite. Radar waves induce molecular oscillations from the alternating magnetic field in this paint, which leads to conversion of the radar energy into heat. The heat is then transferred to the aircraft and dissipated. The iron particles in the paint are obtained by decomposition of iron pentacarbonyl and may contain traces of carbon, oxygen and nitrogen.

But to your stupidity, inside that wiki source where you stole your answer also contains the essence of what I said about permissivity. See if you can find it. But I doubt if you can. So in the end, it is still YOU who are wrong and an idiot.

This is what we call a childish attitude.

Nobody is debating the above topic, but you are throwing the question to show off.

Last chance, buddy...

Q: What are the three principles of Engineering in order of establishments and priority?

Here is the definition of 'establishment'...

Verb: Set up (an organization, system, or set of rules) on a firm or permanent basis.

Now here is the next flight controls engineering question...

Q: Why the F-111 and F-14 have no ailerons?

That is only your assumption.

And a correct one.

You are the one who like to show off, why dont you answer his question here so that all readers can read and thank you ?

I understand what he is asking.
But I want to see if you understand with what you are trying to explain first.

No, you do not understand what he asked for. I gave Mr. sms the relevant keyword search and a link to a discussion on what he asked for. That discussion is several months old. Long before you got on here and made a fool out of yourself.

But if you are so certain that you can answer him, you can start by telling everyone what Mr. sms is asking about?

 

[Pfpilot]

The most interesting part of this thread is the master class undertaken by Gambit and Amalakas in the basics of aeronautics. When casual enthusiasts, like myself, can begin to understand the wider discussion based simply on the sheer volume of information provided by you two guys then no one else has any excuse to play ignorant. Had certain members on this thread made the effort to read and comprehend the information provided; and done so just for the sake of expanding their knowledge, instead of trying to dispel it in order to come across as more intelligent...they may have, in fact, come out of the discussion as more informed and perceptibly more intelligent...ah, the irony.

 

[amalakas]

The most interesting part of this thread is the master class undertaken by Gambit and Amalakas in the basics of aeronautics. When casual enthusiasts, like myself, can begin to understand the wider discussion based simply on the sheer volume of information provided by you two guys then no one else has any excuse to play ignorant. Had certain members on this thread made the effort to read and comprehend the information provided; and done so just for the sake of expanding their knowledge, instead of trying to dispel it in order to come across as more intelligent...they may have, in fact, come out of the discussion as more informed and perceptibly more intelligent...ah, the irony.

Thank you for your kind words.

I take this opportunity to say that the primary motivation (other than enjoyment between work and TV) is to adhere to Engineering Principles.

Engineering is a discipline, and all who have come in touch with it in one form or the other understand that while the sky is the limit to engineering, there are ground rules to everything, and there is no magic. Just a hell of a lot of people sweating a hell of a lot of sweat both physical and mental.

Some people in here have called me (and others) China haters or blinded by envy because of the J-20 or some missile or some submarine.

On the contrary, I think the J-20 is an engineering achievement and I treat it as such. You will find a post of mine in :

As far as I know, no airplane that ever served, anywhere in the world was a piece of crap.

Sure there were other planes far superior or better performing, but all planes that ever served where as far removed from crap as you can possibly imagine.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/chines...r-better-than-f-35-pakfa-3.html#ixzz24UR0rkhd

This shows an engineer's perspective on things. Because an engineer can appreciate the technical challenges everyone who has to make something like a supersonic fighter jet has to face.

All else is funboyism and misinformation that I am trying to put down. As others do too.

I said before that the irony is that I ( and others) appreciate the J-20 far more than some funboys with posters of missiles and planes on their walls.

 

[antonius123]

If the hidden parts of the engine does not contribute to RCS, then the cone's translation mechanisms also will not contribute to RCS. That is the relevance.

Remember, it was YOU who said this...


Cone translating mechanisms are out of radar view. So even if any diffracted signals happened to make contact with them, their contributorship will be either none or statistically insignificant. So for you to say that 'moving parts contribute to bigger RCS' mean those translating mechanisms must be exposed to radar view. Show us a source that have a jet engine fighter with a conical intake that have exposed cone translating mechanisms. Simple enough request, right?

See, you still dont get what I've explained to you.

I've been talking many times about traveling wave; now I am afraid you dont understand what traveling wave is.

If the traveling wave that reach fanblade could be absorbed by RAM coating the airduct, then exposure of moving part behind the blade to the traveling wave wouldn't be problem either.

I've told you the RAM material is also used to coat the moving parts of the intake ramp on F-22

There are no absorber inside the engine core. So you are way off base here.

Nobody said there is absorber inside the engine core. You have severe reading comprehension problem.

I am saying about absorber coating the inside wall of airduct and rampt intake of F-22.

The cone itself. For the ramp, we have many sharp edges and angles. For the DSI inlet, we have only half a cone. That is why the cone and the ramp are higher RCS contributors but NOT FROM TRANSLATING MECHANISMS. I bet you do not understand a word I used.

Thats why I am saying that cone itself contribute to RCS.

But since you agree on it, but you dont agree on the moving part's rcs contribution, then we are debating about RCS contribution of the moving part, not the RCS contribution of the cone itself or the DSI itself.

How many times should I repeat this? please dont be too idiotic.

You are correct that you do not answer. Because you are a fraud.

See.. you are ignoring and try to evade the topic.

I am asking you, because you are making another claim that most probably is FALSE claim.

You are claiming that "Cone is less hidding the fan blade compared to DSI"

This is your claim:
The reason why the DSI structure has far less RCS contributorship is its lack of exposed items to the radar view

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/chines...ft-updates-discussions-182.html#ixzz24UPIeQSu

So, me and readers need to ask you why you think Cone has more items exposed to radar view than DSI?

Why dont you dare to answer?

I bet you dont know again. Thats why never throw claim that you cannot defend

And how do we have that molecular vibrations? Through permissivity or permittivity which equate to degrees of transparency.

If you think that the more transparent the material, the more EM absorbing it is, then you are stupid.

Molecular vibration is not caused by the transparency of the material like you think! you are misled or have misconception again

If you are going to lift your answer from wiki, be honest and give the source...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radar-absorbent_materialv

Did I said that my explanation coming from myself without source? why dont you ask

Where is your citation that back your claim that absorbing is caused by the transparency? none!

But to your stupidity, inside that wiki source where you stole your answer also contains the essence of what I said about permissivity. See if you can find it. But I doubt if you can. So in the end, it is still YOU who are wrong and an idiot.

First of all, explain us what the permissivity you mean here?

For sure there is no explanation about the semi transparency as the cause of the absorbing there, as per your claim

Last chance, buddy...

Q: What are the three principles of Engineering in order of establishments and priority?

Here is the definition of 'establishment'...

Verb: Set up (an organization, system, or set of rules) on a firm or permanent basis.

Now here is the next flight controls engineering question...

Q: Why the F-111 and F-14 have no ailerons?


And a correct one.


No, you do not understand what he asked for. I gave Mr. sms the relevant keyword search and a link to a discussion on what he asked for. That discussion is several months old. Long before you got on here and made a fool out of yourself.

But if you are so certain that you can answer him, you can start by telling everyone what Mr. sms is asking about?

No wonder Martian, etc don bother to serve you; and some members warn me to ignore you. It is clearly because your STUBBORNNESS and IGNORANCE.

How many times should I tell you not to evade the topic, and suggest that you focus on the topic being debated? do you want to run away from the topic that you can't answer any more?

 

[DrSomnath999]

And that did not stop Serbian infrastructure still being bombed to pieces.

Point remains that the US cannot bomb China without suffering serious damage itself.

China's air-defences are now very strong and it has a strong ability to strike US bases and ships out in the Ocean.

u need to understand the "pun" in my sentence
well i know that serbian were hammmered & u cant blame them for that as they are tiny insect compare to the might of US & Nato at that time .But still they somehow managed to shoot down a stealth fighter which was supposed to be invisible to radar

Really??

How do you know its due to the technology that Serbia poses?
How do you know China has no anti stealth radar technology?

Do you know the F-117 shot down in serbia mostly was because of the mistake that the Pilot of F-117 had made? and it is a very small probability occasion? It means in other F-117's sortie serbia may not be able to shoot down F-117 for the second time

"""really ???"""

it is the word that i should be asking u not u to me.ok as u urself are unaware of the true facts .
what did u say ????""PILOT errror""" LOLLLZZZ.1st check the true facts about the shooting of that plane then comeback
there was also unconfirmed report that a second F117 was also hit but it never flew after it returned to base

Oh boy!!
i never said china has no anti stealth radar technology & nor i didnt even mention chinese name altogether in my posts.I was mentioning about serbia only .1st learn to comprehend properly then post

 

[sms]

^^^ Gambit sent me few links with summary. I'll send you via PM once I get enough psot count. Mean timeyou can read thru other thread highlighted but Many and Gambit...

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-air-force/124571-mystery-bandpass-radome.html

 

[Esc8781]

Ah, you mean the viet guy name rabbit(gambit)? He no expert, he is a janitor in the UNited airliner. He got book about everything from AViation, so he pretend to be an expert. But everything in the book give him answer, if he can't answer everyone to him is Idiot. So don't bother to argued with him.

How did you know that? Have you been stalking him, ew.

 

[antonius123]

^^^ Gambit sent me few links with summary. I'll send you via PM once I get enough psot count. Mean timeyou can read thru other thread highlighted but Many and Gambit...

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-air-force/124571-mystery-bandpass-radome.html

I am not impressed with link brought by somebody.
I am impressed with explanation of somebody, as it indicate the understanding in his mine.

Everybody can googling to find internet article easily; everybody can drag internet article into this forum thread, but only qualified person can understand and explain.

The way he explain about "semi transparent" should not satisfy you about radome.

But to my surprise, you never asked him about it (you only ask me and chase me)