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Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

Meters lengths freqs systems are ground based, therefore their EFFECTIVE detection range are line-of-sight limited from the ground, not from being airborne.


That is not the issue. Your argument is that the J-20 is 'more aerodynamics' than the F-22 based solely upon the diverter assembly.

Provide hard data for that argument.

1. What are you talking about? Ground-based Low-Band radar detects the general location of an enemy stealth fighter and relays the general coordinates to an interceptor.

2. I said airduct-fuselage gap. I made no mention of the diverter assembly. Try reading my posts properly.

Gee, I wonder why the F-35 doesn't have an airduct-fuselage gap. Instead, the F-35 has a seamless integrated airduct-fuselage design like the J-20. Hmmm...could it be that it's more aerodynamic?
 
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1. What are you talking about? Ground-based Low-Band radar detects the general location of an enemy stealth fighter and relays the general coordinates to an interceptor.
The efficacy of GROUND BASED meters lengths systems against low radar observable bodies, even when those bodies are shaped to be against centimetric and millimetric freqs, have not been proven. The truth is that those meters lengths freqs have been employed for long distance before the advent of 'stealth'. What this at least implied is that the original designers of 'stealth', meaning US, investigated this alleged efficacy and found the technical and operational claims to be dubious at best.

Here is the proper definition of 'efficacy'...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efficacy
Efficacy is the capacity to produce an effect.
Regarding the claim of long wavelengths 'efficacy' on low radar observable bodies, this has not been proven beyond any reasonable doubts due to the fact that no one have an F-117 class body to test out their claims. This fall under TECHNICAL EFFICACY. The most the Russians can do is extrapolate from 'regular' bodies and hope the sales brochures works.

Since meters lengths freqs system must be ground based due to antenna size, this limitation fall under TACTICAL EFFICACY. Just like ordinary human vision, radar is equally limited to line-of-sight limitations and being on the ground is the worst place to be if the goal is to be long distance. That is why these system try atmospheric 'bounces' to extend their reach.

Combine both and the overall efficacy of meters lengths freqs against 'stealth' in a tactical setting is dubious at best.

2. I said airduct-fuselage gap. I made no mention of the diverter assembly. Try reading my posts properly.
An aircraft is a vehicle in motion with complete six degrees of freedom: three linear and three rotational.

But what make an aircraft fly is the aerodynamic efficiency of the wings, not the fuselage. In other words, literally a brick can fly if it has sufficient propulsive power, efficient wings, and sophisticated flight controls to actuate those wings to compensate for the brick's 'blocky' or 'chunky' fuselage.

The overall 'aerodynamic' efficiency of an aircraft is about the amount of power needed to maintain stable flight, in other words, reshaping the brick's fuselage decreases the power necessary to keep it flying. Reshaping it further enough and eventually you will reach the physical limits you can without crashing this body. Now you need to address the weight issue. Hollowing out the fuselage further reduces power required to maintain flight. Do this enough and eventually you will reach physical limits needed to maintain fuselage integrity.

But we are not talking about a brick with wings versus a paper airplane. We are talking about two finely shaped bodies. So if you make the claim that the J-20 is 'more aerodynamic' than the F-22, please provide hard data.
 
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No. Why? Got any hot chicks?

Nope...but I was hoping that you could help me reduce my bike's rcs !

Naaah...I'm just messing with you guys ! If you ever do drop in gimme a PM and though I may not be able to arrange for some 'chicks'...I'd be sure to introduce you to the most tantalizing cuisines from this part of the world ! A Nihari with hot Naans, topped with a glass of Lasssi and ice-cooled Mangos is worth more than all the F-22s and J-20s in the world !
 
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Gambit, Martian2 - Gentlemen any chance of visiting Pakistan ?

Someday, I might visit Pakistan if the opportunity arises. I have to see those Sino-Pakistani joint venture fighters for myself. :pakistan::china:

I sure as hell won't pass up the mango offer.
 
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I am not over 50. But seriously, my traveling days are severely limited at this stage in my life due to family (age) related issues.

Your a very interesting person in regard not only to your Military background but your Vietnamese background you feelings to your origin country is interesting.

I am not over 50. But seriously, my traveling days are severely limited at this stage in my life due to family (age) related issues.

your relationship to the Chinese on the forum to me seems like a tough grandpa against the kids that still have a lot to learn.
 
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Your a very interesting person in regard not only to your Military background but your Vietnamese background you feelings to your origin country is interesting.
I have no hostile feelings for Viet Nam if that is what you are wondering about. If anything, over the decades I have been living in the US, much of my money earned I have sent back to Viet Nam to support democracy movements.

your relationship to the Chinese on the forum to me seems like a tough grandpa against the kids that still have a lot to learn.
And they still have much to learn. The Chinese do not have much respect for other Asians and their hostility to my challenges to their claims reflects that racially based contempt. In the beginning, I was respectful to them. I challenged their claims with credible sources and reasonable arguments. They did not like that. When they found out I was a Viet, the kitty claws came out. :lol: And their insults got personal and racial. I expected that.
 
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China's ground testing of the 2D TVC nozzle from 2005, not sure if this will be implemented as the final shape for the engine of J-20. :coffee:

003651n7cpplgdgccgp3k3.jpg
 
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I have no hostile feelings for Viet Nam if that is what you are wondering about. If anything, over the decades I have been living in the US, much of my money earned I have sent back to Viet Nam to support democracy movements.


And they still have much to learn. The Chinese do not have much respect for other Asians and their hostility to my challenges to their claims reflects that racially based contempt. In the beginning, I was respectful to them. I challenged their claims with credible sources and reasonable arguments. They did not like that. When they found out I was a Viet, the kitty claws came out. :lol: And their insults got personal and racial. I expected that.

Well they do have much to learn rather in a respectful way wouldn't call all of them racist , I would like your complete Opinion the the J-20 analysis including China current Engine Achilles heel problem.

China's ground testing of the 2D TVC nozzle from 2005, not sure if this will be implemented as the final shape for the engine of J-20. :coffee:

003651n7cpplgdgccgp3k3.jpg

WS-15 engines are still in testing correct ? and China won't have to use russian engines anymore since the WS-10 engines are up and running ?
 
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I
And they still have much to learn. The Chinese do not have much respect for other Asians and their hostility to my challenges to their claims reflects that racially based contempt. In the beginning, I was respectful to them. I challenged their claims with credible sources and reasonable arguments. They did not like that. When they found out I was a Viet, the kitty claws came out. :lol: And their insults got personal and racial. I expected that.

Surely thats a bit harsh !
 
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WS-15 engines are still in testing correct ? and China won't have to use russian engines anymore since the WS-10 engines are up and running ?

WS-15 will be on J-20 by the end of this year or the early of next year, and some older aircrafts of PLAAF still use AL-31F like J-11A/J-10A/Su-30. :coffee:
 
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