Chengdu J-10 Multirole Fighter Air Craft News & Discussions

[ziaulislam]

the price of UAE mirage is so much (especially after upgrades) that its better to acquire more older f-16s/jf-17s or j-10s

 

[Kompromat]

You guys do understand that your JF17 are competing against used F16s and mirages don't you? And you also want to go for the same? Way to kill the export market.

F-16s = No training needed for PAF. Its a medium weight fighter. It can perform much better in many mission profiles.

We just want ~ 90 F-16s along with 250 Thunders.

 

[Luftwaffe]

the price of UAE mirage is so much (especially after upgrades) that its better to acquire more older f-16s/jf-17s or j-10s

Trying is not a bad option $10-$15m per mirage or leave it, what do we lose.

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

F-16s = No training needed for PAF. Its a medium weight fighter. It can perform much better in many mission profiles.

We just want ~ 90 F-16s along with 250 Thunders.

Thats not the point. How will you convince another nation looking to choose between a second hand F16 and your JF17 when he knows that you also bought the F16? conversion Training will be required anyways since your pilots will be moving from mirages to F16. So same case as JF17. F16 is not a medium weight fighter. You have operating it for 20 years. You should know.

 

[Kompromat]

Every nation has a different requirement for their air defense. If JF-17 does the job for Sri Lanka or Azarbaijan, they will not opt for F-16s which are expensive to operate.

F-16s even used ones are just way too advane for many air forces. US won't allow sales to countries it doesn't want to. Nor would it approve the transfer of AMRAAMs and other critical parts.

We have one of the most experianced Air Forces in the world, especially with F-16s. Our requirements are a 'high lo' mix of jets, which is what i explained before.

I don't think it will affect thunder exports.

 

[razgriz19]

Thats not the point. How will you convince another nation looking to choose between a second hand F16 and your JF17 when he knows that you also bought the F16? conversion Training will be required anyways since your pilots will be moving from mirages to F16. So same case as JF17. F16 is not a medium weight fighter. You have operating it for 20 years. You should know.

F-16 was a light weight fighter for USAF - lighter than F-15
F-16 is a medium weight fighter for PAF as we have an even lighter aircraft.

 

[ziaulislam]

problem is that they will need new weapons, upgrades to make them very effective. that will take their price well above the j-10s. unless the UAE wants to give it free and we pay for upgrades etc its unfeasible. the best option seems to be second hand f-16s from USA..

 

[SBD-3]

Just like Turkey...your military deals should be separate from political monkey stunts, you can call it whatever you want.

Turkey buys them, doesn't get them in occasional FMS package like us. Do you remember a single F-16 purchased by Pakistan?

 

[Bratva]

Turkey buys them, doesn't get them in occasional FMS package like us. Do you remember a single F-16 purchased by Pakistan?

Pakistan did pay most of 5 billion dollar. I don't recall entire 5 billion deal being financed through FMS

 

[Luftwaffe]

Turkey buys them, doesn't get them in occasional FMS package like us. Do you remember a single F-16 purchased by Pakistan?

You think US gave you $5.1B to pay them back to MLU 35-45 Vipers and 18 new F-16s. Maybe you need to go back to F-16 Thread. That $5.1B was out of Pakistan's pocket purely.

 

[Kompromat]

Okay gents back to J-10B now.

 

[SBD-3]

You think US gave you $5.1B to pay them back to MLU 35-45 Vipers and 18 new F-16s. Maybe you need to go back to F-16 Thread. That $5.1B was out of Pakistan's pocket purely.

Pakistan did pay most of 5 billion dollar. I don't recall entire 5 billion deal being financed through FMS

The Letter of Offer and Acceptance for the Mid-Life Update case covers the sale of the upgrade kits for Pakistan's existing fleet of Block 15 F-16 A/B aircraft, the cost of training Pakistani technicians, and the purchase of specialized tooling to accomplish the installation. Pakistan will also the MLU kits to upgrade some of the EDA F-16's we are providing them.

The MLU case was written and agreed upon by the USG and Pakistan as a "mixed funding" case, allowing Pakistan to use $108.395 million in FMF credits on the overall $891 million case. This price does not include the cost of MLU installation outside of Pakistan -- a decision that will likely push the total value of this FMF case to over $1 billion. Pakistan viewed this allowance to partially fund the case with FMF as an opening to amend it on an annual basis. The PAF leadership believes the U.S. understood Pakistan intended to use future FMF credits on the MLU case.

Pakistan believes its intent to modify the MLU LOA on an annual basis was clear from the sale's inception, saying that its approach was driven by the way the FMF program is administered. This expectation was further reinforced by the fact that Pakistan was allowed to amend both their C-130 and TPS-77 radar cases to apply more FMF to each LOA. Each case started as a mixed funding case; the U.S. allowed Pakistan to amend the case in following years until each were 100 percent FMF financed ($75 million and $100 million respectively).

Pakistan is scheduled to pay over $711 million towards the new F-16 case and an additional $290 million for the Mid Life Update. In a recent meeting with Major General Helmly, the U.S. Defense Representative to Pakistan, and Richard Millies, the Deputy Director of the Defense Security Cooperation Agency, ACM Tanvir informed them that Pakistan would not be able to make its June 15 MLU payment if FMF were not made available by then.
Pakistan's F-16 Program at Risk of Failure?: Wikileaks | Pakistan Military Review

 

[Kompromat]

Can we quit the F-16 talk????

 

[araz]

Trying is not a bad option $10-$15m per mirage or leave it, what do we lose.

The setup cost of infrastructure would be prohibitive . The assembly line for M2Ks is closed and spare parts would be difficult to find. It is best if welook ahead rather than looking back. Looking aheadM2Ks are not a good idea. Remember PAF has at least 4 chances of acquiring this bird and let go of all the chances for one reason or another. Must tell you something. F16s---- there is logic in procuring SOME more, even with its inherent risks, but M2Ks ___ not a logical step.
Araz

 

[corefragments]

back to j-10's I wanted to know if they are really better than jf-17. to me stats look quite similar .
J-10 might be slightly better but would it be a wise choice, as for PAF it's always been issue of costs of wielding a fighter platform and f-16 gives us that , but since alliances are shifting PAK should look else where for it future hardware