Chengdu J-10 Multirole Fighter Air Craft News & Discussions
- Thread starter EagleEyes
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different airplane
#01..#02.....
That indeed could be it... I just play devils advocate but you do know we want to be sure. If true the chinese not only suprised the world with another marvel design but also aviation experts cause it does look splendid. Not fully reliable cause I need untouched pictures for optical and technical analyses of the plane... You can continue posting them. I am all eyes sofar.
wangrong
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Second pic most realistic sofat only the pitot tube seems to be strange. There is no need to point it downwards. First pic is altered. Certainly the inlet is a little more lengthened.
cherryerror
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You are right, Mr. Munir. One of these photos is a fake one. but the others could basically be considered original. Yes, these candid photographs are big bomb on every chinese Military fans' forums. consequently a fierce debate on the authenticity of those photos, whether they were photoshoped or not, was going on these days. It was when the photo in which some people stood underneath the plane made its appearance, most of military fans began to think that these photos(exclude the fake one) are very likely original photos, not photoshoped.
It is always fun to make some speculation, according to those candid photos, about what new functions or parts have been added or upgraded to the new plane, J10B. After the analyses of the plane in those photos, many of our chinese military enthusiasts have drawn a conclusion that the technologies such as AESA, DSI, IRST, sensor fusion, ECM, advanced avionics architecture have been very likely achieved on the J10B's prototype #01. As to the engine, whether its russian's engine was replaced by chinese one is still unknown.
By the way, many chinese military fans believe that the J10B is customized for PAF, and not much J10B will be introduced into PLAF. what PLAF want to equip is said to be the J10C. who knows.
Finally I hope all of you friends can read well the information above I want to convey. Sorry, you know, it is a bit hard for me, an average chinese with poor English, to connect those English words together
It is always fun to make some speculation, according to those candid photos, about what new functions or parts have been added or upgraded to the new plane, J10B. After the analyses of the plane in those photos, many of our chinese military enthusiasts have drawn a conclusion that the technologies such as AESA, DSI, IRST, sensor fusion, ECM, advanced avionics architecture have been very likely achieved on the J10B's prototype #01. As to the engine, whether its russian's engine was replaced by chinese one is still unknown.
By the way, many chinese military fans believe that the J10B is customized for PAF, and not much J10B will be introduced into PLAF. what PLAF want to equip is said to be the J10C. who knows.
Finally I hope all of you friends can read well the information above I want to convey. Sorry, you know, it is a bit hard for me, an average chinese with poor English, to connect those English words together
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Pakistan will buy whatever version comes close to providing capabilities that PAF wants and needs. May that is the reason that the version it needs was not available. Aircrafts are not something that you can pick up off the shelf. Also the first production goes to PLAAF.
What Pakistan really needs is a "First look, first shoot, first kill" capability. They may not get 100% of what they wish but anything close will be grabbed.
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I think PsHamim hits the nail. The point is that PAF never takes second option. But the sellers are not that nice these days. So PAF moved from high quality import to internal production (made Mirage 3 parts etc) towards JF17. We hear a lot of people still writing that it is just 70% f16 or that it is not good enough against MKI. Well, how many nations joined these kind of projects? How many nation produced such a plane? How many nations fly such a plane? Can you imagine what it means from blocked F16A towards F7P/PG to now JF17? That is not a minor improvement but a huge big bang in military aviation. You will have indigenous 350 fighterjets with BVR and Ra'ad as weapons... And still remind that it is the lower of the high low combination. I am not wondered that FC20 is still being negotiated cause that will be surely even higher end result then we expect...
I keep reminding Indians that it was called a paper plane by them...
It was an honour looking at the pics. I agree with you remarks about PAF and PLA. As far as I know PAF will buy both versions if problems occur with USA. But the main problems remains engine. It is not decent to forward you to Pakdef but I think people here do not make much problem out of it. There you will see which problems are expected on the PAF J10 path. There are two Chinese engine options. If needed Russian option might be possible but possible dangerous. Depending on Indian MRCA selection. The radar is more an international selection but China's version is included (AESA).
Hope to see more of you guys. And your Englich is fine.
Hope to see more of you guys. And your Englich is fine.
cherryerror
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here are another two latest candid photographs about J10B prototype.
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How about this concept..View attachment 61ab9f078d2efe0aa49da7d089de92e8.jpg
(China is developing an advanced version of the Chengdu Aircraft Industrial Corporation (CAC) J-10 multirole fighter aircraft, referred to as the Super-10, with a more powerful engine, thrust-vector control, stronger airframe and passive phased-array radar.)
View attachment a61ba7ba5988cb023411f817d992368d.jpg
(PAF refers to more advance version of J-10 as FC-20. Not much details are out their yet but we can assume the newer version to be something like the 2 pictures. PAF plan is to acquire 36-100 FC-20.)
Chinese forum comments
08:39 GMT, January 19, 2009 First pictures are now becoming available of the dedicated two-seat attack version of the Chinese J-10 fighter aircraft, this being distinct from the standard combat-capable trainer/OCU aircraft that is already in service. The new version, which is variously referred to as J-10B or J-10C, features improvement such as Divertless Supersonic Intake (DSI) engine air intake, conformal fuel tanks, new EW equipment on the vertical tail, IRST/FLIR and laser designation pods, and is reported to be equipped with a new radar fitted with a PESA (Passive Electronic Scanning Array) antenna.
The new version of the J-10 is thus a (relatively) lightweight attack aircraft while maintaining good air combat capabilities, rather similar to the Israeli F-16I SOUFA in concept if not in performance. It will be interesting to see whether the PLA Air Force will now move to procure the J-10B/C in lieu of the earlier J-10A, or the two types will rather be procured in parallel.
(China is developing an advanced version of the Chengdu Aircraft Industrial Corporation (CAC) J-10 multirole fighter aircraft, referred to as the Super-10, with a more powerful engine, thrust-vector control, stronger airframe and passive phased-array radar.)
View attachment a61ba7ba5988cb023411f817d992368d.jpg
(PAF refers to more advance version of J-10 as FC-20. Not much details are out their yet but we can assume the newer version to be something like the 2 pictures. PAF plan is to acquire 36-100 FC-20.)
Chinese forum comments
08:39 GMT, January 19, 2009 First pictures are now becoming available of the dedicated two-seat attack version of the Chinese J-10 fighter aircraft, this being distinct from the standard combat-capable trainer/OCU aircraft that is already in service. The new version, which is variously referred to as J-10B or J-10C, features improvement such as Divertless Supersonic Intake (DSI) engine air intake, conformal fuel tanks, new EW equipment on the vertical tail, IRST/FLIR and laser designation pods, and is reported to be equipped with a new radar fitted with a PESA (Passive Electronic Scanning Array) antenna.
The new version of the J-10 is thus a (relatively) lightweight attack aircraft while maintaining good air combat capabilities, rather similar to the Israeli F-16I SOUFA in concept if not in performance. It will be interesting to see whether the PLA Air Force will now move to procure the J-10B/C in lieu of the earlier J-10A, or the two types will rather be procured in parallel.
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March 18, 2009: China only publicly admitted its new J-10s jet fighter existed two years ago, even though the first few entered service in late 2003. There are only about a hundred J-10As are in service, and they are being offered to export customers for about $42 million each. Currently, China is producing 2-3 J-10s a month.
Pictures recently appeared showing the improved J-10B model. This version carries improved electronics, including better radar warning, a laser range finder and targeting electronics. The new nose cone looks like the one on the F-16, indicating that the J-10B is now ready to be fitted with an AESA (phased array) radar (which is more capable and more reliable than older types, but also more expensive.) The cockpit also has a larger and more detailed HUD (Head Up Display).
The J-10 already has a reputation as a maintenance nightmare, and that the Chinese are having a hard time keeping the aircraft operational in reasonable numbers. But the J-10 is the first modern jet fighter designed and built in China. The aircraft is an attempt to create a modern fighter-bomber that could compete with foreign designs. The experiment was not completely successful.
Work on the J-10 began over twenty years ago, in an attempt to develop an aircraft that could compete with the Russian MiG-29s and Su-27s, and the American F-16. But the first prototype did not fly until 1998. There were problems, and it wasn't until 2000 that the basic design flaws were fixed. By 2002, nine prototypes had been built, and flight testing was going forward to find, and fix, hundreds of smaller problems. It was a great learning experience for Chinese engineers, but it was becoming apparent that the J10 was not going to be competitive with the Su-27s/30s China was buying from Russia.
The J-10 looks something like the American F-16, and weighs about the same (19 tons). Like the F-16, and unlike the Su-27, the J-10 has only one engine. Originally, the J-10 used a Russian AL-31FN engine, but China has been working for a decade to manufacture their own version of this, the WS10A. The WS10A is something of an acid test for them, as it is a powerful military engine, and a complex piece of work. Russia refused to license China to produce the AL-31FN, so the Chinese stole as much of the technology as they could and designed the WS10A. This engine has been tested, and officially approved for production, but apparently still has quality control and performance problems.
It's no accident that the J-10 resembles the F-16, because Israel apparently sold them technology for the Israeli Lavi jet fighter. Israel abandoned the Lavi project, because of the high cost and availability of cheaper alternatives (buying F-16s and F-15s from the United States.) But the Lavi was meant to be a super F-16, and incorporated a lot of design ideas from the F-16 (which the Israelis were very familiar with, as they used them, and had developed new components for them.)
Warplanes: China Builds A Better Fighter
Pictures recently appeared showing the improved J-10B model. This version carries improved electronics, including better radar warning, a laser range finder and targeting electronics. The new nose cone looks like the one on the F-16, indicating that the J-10B is now ready to be fitted with an AESA (phased array) radar (which is more capable and more reliable than older types, but also more expensive.) The cockpit also has a larger and more detailed HUD (Head Up Display).
The J-10 already has a reputation as a maintenance nightmare, and that the Chinese are having a hard time keeping the aircraft operational in reasonable numbers. But the J-10 is the first modern jet fighter designed and built in China. The aircraft is an attempt to create a modern fighter-bomber that could compete with foreign designs. The experiment was not completely successful.
Work on the J-10 began over twenty years ago, in an attempt to develop an aircraft that could compete with the Russian MiG-29s and Su-27s, and the American F-16. But the first prototype did not fly until 1998. There were problems, and it wasn't until 2000 that the basic design flaws were fixed. By 2002, nine prototypes had been built, and flight testing was going forward to find, and fix, hundreds of smaller problems. It was a great learning experience for Chinese engineers, but it was becoming apparent that the J10 was not going to be competitive with the Su-27s/30s China was buying from Russia.
The J-10 looks something like the American F-16, and weighs about the same (19 tons). Like the F-16, and unlike the Su-27, the J-10 has only one engine. Originally, the J-10 used a Russian AL-31FN engine, but China has been working for a decade to manufacture their own version of this, the WS10A. The WS10A is something of an acid test for them, as it is a powerful military engine, and a complex piece of work. Russia refused to license China to produce the AL-31FN, so the Chinese stole as much of the technology as they could and designed the WS10A. This engine has been tested, and officially approved for production, but apparently still has quality control and performance problems.
It's no accident that the J-10 resembles the F-16, because Israel apparently sold them technology for the Israeli Lavi jet fighter. Israel abandoned the Lavi project, because of the high cost and availability of cheaper alternatives (buying F-16s and F-15s from the United States.) But the Lavi was meant to be a super F-16, and incorporated a lot of design ideas from the F-16 (which the Israelis were very familiar with, as they used them, and had developed new components for them.)
Warplanes: China Builds A Better Fighter
Myth_buster_1
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Looks like the radar is AESA, the angle of antenna is fixed as the phase array faces upwards.
View attachment ec96fede788e8cfdc55d2bc9ccb1002f.jpg
View attachment ec96fede788e8cfdc55d2bc9ccb1002f.jpg
Food for thought...
I meant how more do you want to see the original picture? The planes are parked at the same spot and th epicture is identical. Just look at the taxiway in front of the intake... The trees... etc etc...
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