Chengdu J-10 Multirole Fighter Air Craft News & Discussions

[melb4aust]

The new Air Chief may cancel F-16 MLU program, stop buying any more than first 42 JF, cancel the ZDK-03 contract... the list can go on.

you're taking my statement into totally different context. I would like to see J-10 in PAF colours as much as all other pakistani members on this forum

The first 36 J-10 that should be delivered late this year/early next year will not be FC-20! They will be J-10A, designated F-10A according to ex-Air Chief Tanvir M. Ahmad.

I Wish they do so.....

It also seemed unlikely that PAF would induct JF without installing western avionics, but they did. They didn't make any Western add-ons to the JF at all, why would they need to do so on the J-10? It is supposed to be more capable than JF, JF uses technology from the J-10 (according to Jane's, the JF's KLJ-7 radar is a smaller version of the J-10's KLJ-10 radar).

JF-17 and J-10 are totally different projects and Aircrafts, JF-17 is pakistan's necessity, its a joint venture and as we all know Pakistan is contributing abt50% of the whole project, they have to have to put efforts in order to make it better plane as it will become the back bone of PAF. They are still working on on it as they have to perform XYZ tests before induction.

While J-10 is altogether a different story, Pakistan would definately like to induct this plane in a premature state along with lots of improvements, rather than a plane with basic gadgets and avionics, if not par but as close as to Block-52.

Right now i dont think they are in such hurry to induct J-10 and there is such a need, when there is room to wait for further improvements as per PAF standards. Rest, god knows what will happen!

 

[hj786]

Right now i dont think they are in such hurry to induct J-10 and there is such a need, when there is room to wait for further improvements as per PAF standards. Rest, god knows what will happen!

I agree, but we should insult our inside sources by saying their information is wrong just because of some news report. That report does not talk about PAF J-10A being cancelled at all, it only talks about a high tech variant, FC-20. You are right, we'll have to wait and see what happens!

 

[melb4aust]

I agree, but we should insult our inside sources by saying their information is wrong just because of some news report. That report does not talk about PAF J-10A being cancelled at all, it only talks about a high tech variant, FC-20. You are right, we'll have to wait and see what happens!

Again wrong, i m not insulting any1 ( i never do ) and neither do i have to follow any news or media posts, its just an simple opinion my friend.

 

[All-Green]

I agree, but we should insult our inside sources by saying their information is wrong just because of some news report. That report does not talk about PAF J-10A being cancelled at all, it only talks about a high tech variant, FC-20. You are right, we'll have to wait and see what happens!

Personally speaking i am in favor of J-10A induction now to give PAF more bite at this stage and discourage adventurism by any other nation over Pakistan soil.
However threat assessment is responsibility of PAF and GOP and if they prefer to get all jets on FC-20 standard in 2014-15 then that can be acceptable as well (provided they do their homework).
Hopefully it shall all be clear by end of this year.

 

[PAFAce]

The PAF is probably the only national institution that is visibly making some effort to improve right now. Good job. With all this talk of F-10s and FC-20s, I can almost see the hours of effort that is being put in by the personnel in decision making positions.

As for the F-10/J-10A, I believe that had the relationship with India not deteriorated suddenly, Pakistan would have held off until the proper upgrades could be made. As has been discussed above, if we do get the F-10s, it will be because the PAF wants to make up for any shortfalls in case of hostile activities from our neighbour in the short term.

Acquiring F-10s, however, will definitely not be beneficial for us in the long term because 10 years down the road, we'd much rather have a greater number of FC-20s than a mixture of some F-10s and some FC-20s. Also, by not getting the F-10s now, the PAF may be able to rid itself of a huge logistical task, that of operating many different weapon systems at the same time. This is a problem which the PAF faces today because we currently operate a weird and unique combination of American, French and Chinese systems. If, 10 years down the road, we operate only Chinese/Pakistani and some European/American systems, it will reduce the logistical workload immensely.

Just my two cents.

 

[IceCold]

What if we keep our focus only on the development of the JF-17 and the purchase of F-16s used ones i am talking about and getting our hands on as many as we could and latter upgrading them to mlu standards. I don't see our relations with the US dying anytime soon, not till the time they are in afghanistan. Also we can still exercise the option for the purchase of 18 more F-16s block 52 once we start getting the deliveries from the previous order. Moreover the higher our order will be, the less likely it will be for the americans to sanction us after all Lockhead will continue its plant of F-16s meaning americans won't loose their job which other wise would be pretty soon out of one.

J-10 or Fc-20 can be acquired at a latter stage once the jet reaches its true potential i.e by 2014-15. By that time the jet would be on par with the EF or the rafale something that will be needed to counter India's MRCA.

This is however my personal opinion and we can all agree to disagree.

 

[pakpower]

J-10 or Fc-20 can be acquired at a latter stage once the jet reaches its true potential i.e by 2014-15. By that time the jet would be on par with the EF or the rafale something that will be needed to counter India's MRCA.

This is however my personal opinion and we can all agree to disagree.

Hi dude how are you Yaar you are right in your opinion I m 100% with you on this stance of yours. But I wanna clear this up that are you also against the quick purchae of F-10s now in this year or may be 2010 ? or you happy to get these birds in 2014-2015 ?

What you say ?

 

[Mav3rick]

The PAF is probably the only national institution that is visibly making some effort to improve right now. Good job. With all this talk of F-10s and FC-20s, I can almost see the hours of effort that is being put in by the personnel in decision making positions.

As for the F-10/J-10A, I believe that had the relationship with India not deteriorated suddenly, Pakistan would have held off until the proper upgrades could be made. As has been discussed above, if we do get the F-10s, it will be because the PAF wants to make up for any shortfalls in case of hostile activities from our neighbour in the short term.

Acquiring F-10s, however, will definitely not be beneficial for us in the long term because 10 years down the road, we'd much rather have a greater number of FC-20s than a mixture of some F-10s and some FC-20s. Also, by not getting the F-10s now, the PAF may be able to rid itself of a huge logistical task, that of operating many different weapon systems at the same time. This is a problem which the PAF faces today because we currently operate a weird and unique combination of American, French and Chinese systems. If, 10 years down the road, we operate only Chinese/Pakistani and some European/American systems, it will reduce the logistical workload immensely.

Just my two cents.

Most of you guys have missed the most important thing about acquiring any new technology.......training! If we acquire 2 squadrons of J-10's today our pilots will have 10 years of extensive training and experience on the upcoming advanced models instead of having to start off fresh. I'd rather my pilots be more trained and experienced today then 10 years later!

 

[spurdozer]

Guys What I understand from the developing situation is that first PAF wants to get it's hands on F-16 Block-52 and then after studying and evaluating the plane would order the J-10 As or Bs designated the FC-20 according to it's own hi-tech specifications. Ofcourse this is just my opinion and don't have the knowledge possesed by Sir Muradk or Sir Pshamim to disagree with them.

 

[Comet]

I think that both of these jets are a real time requirement. And PAF will go for both of these.

 

[araz]

I disagree, sir Muradk on this forum and (I think) pshamim on another forum, both ex PAF pilots, have stated very very recently that J-10A will be in Pakistan late this year/early next year. I don't see why PAF would change their mind so quickly.

hj786
I have the utmost of respect for both the gentlemen you have mentioned and sir muradk is a friend as well. I remember what they both said. The only reason i commented on this issue was that the timeline in view of all the other acquisitions seemed wrong to my inexpert eye. i would love to see PAF having J10s but it now seems more and more likely that we will get FC20 in 2014-15. Also please remember that even Sir Muradk had said that these are not like cars. there are certain issues that need to be resolved and the chinese are very careful in their sales(or something to that tune)
waSalam
Araz.

 

[araz]

What if we keep our focus only on the development of the JF-17 and the purchase of F-16s used ones i am talking about and getting our hands on as many as we could and latter upgrading them to mlu standards. I don't see our relations with the US dying anytime soon, not till the time they are in afghanistan. Also we can still exercise the option for the purchase of 18 more F-16s block 52 once we start getting the deliveries from the previous order. Moreover the higher our order will be, the less likely it will be for the americans to sanction us after all Lockhead will continue its plant of F-16s meaning americans won't loose their job which other wise would be pretty soon out of one.

J-10 or Fc-20 can be acquired at a latter stage once the jet reaches its true potential i.e by 2014-15. By that time the jet would be on par with the EF or the rafale something that will be needed to counter India's MRCA.

This is however my personal opinion and we can all agree to disagree.

There is nothing wrong with your strategy. However, the airframes that PAF has looked at are all heavily used, and hence PAF is reluctant to take on more F16s. I also am not certain what the implications of getting bl 32/42 would be with regards to setup and infrastructure. Also consider that PAF has so far only wanted its own Bl15OCUs back, 12 of these are with navy and US has offered to give us Block 30s in exchange to which PAF does not appear to be too enthusiasti(atleast outwardly)
the other thing is how much is the US will ing to sell us more F16s in view of the opposition it faces in the congress.
Lastly, I think it was calculated that a new Block 52 cost PAF 82 million per plane. Compared to that FC20 would be half the cost, better capability and more upgradable.
In the light of the above i support PAfs current policy of continuing with limited numbers of F16s along with MLUs ,and improve and induct Thunders and FC20s as the platforms mature.
WaSalam
Araz

 

[IceCold]

There is nothing wrong with your strategy. However, the airframes that PAF has looked at are all heavily used, and hence PAF is reluctant to take on more F16s. I also am not certain what the implications of getting bl 32/42 would be with regards to setup and infrastructure. Also consider that PAF has so far only wanted its own Bl15OCUs back, 12 of these are with navy and US has offered to give us Block 30s in exchange to which PAF does not appear to be too enthusiasti(atleast outwardly)
the other thing is how much is the US will ing to sell us more F16s in view of the opposition it faces in the congress.
Lastly, I think it was calculated that a new Block 52 cost PAF 82 million per plane. Compared to that FC20 would be half the cost, better capability and more upgradable.
In the light of the above i support PAfs current policy of continuing with limited numbers of F16s along with MLUs ,and improve and induct Thunders and FC20s as the platforms mature.
WaSalam
Araz

Sir how do you see the current rumor as most members are stating here which is PAF getting J-10 initially by the end of 2009 and then by 2014 perhaps we will get the FC-20, version specifically built for Pakistan i would say. I mean if we consider the above rumor to be true, don't you think it will only add to cost maintaining 2 different type of platforms for an already budget constraint airforce.
About the older F-16s i agree with the most part, however one point i do want to bring it to your attention if it isn't already that PAF is not only interested in older F-16s from the US, but from where ever it can get it hands on, and in the light of that is it safe to assume that when Turkey will move towards the JSF, their F-16s can be bought my Pakistan and if yes then it wouldn't be a bad idea, certainly cost effective as well.

 

[PAFAce]

Most of you guys have missed the most important thing about acquiring any new technology.......training! If we acquire 2 squadrons of J-10's today our pilots will have 10 years of extensive training and experience on the upcoming advanced models instead of having to start off fresh. I'd rather my pilots be more trained and experienced today then 10 years later!

We will have the proper training with hi-tech aircrafts once we get our MLUs and B/52s. Also, 10 years down the road, a larger number of better jets will be more beneficial. F-10s will only be bought if the PAF feels it needs to quickly catch up to the IAF in the short term, period.

One advantage of F-10s will be that, in case of an all out war, Pakistan could "loan" more F-10/J-10As from the Chinese until the end of the war (since we will already know how to operate them). I am not sure, however, how realistic this situation is. I had heard rumors of Chinese jets in Pakistan during the 2002/03 stand-off between Pakistan and India, but it was never really confirmed.

 

[Patriot]

Sir how do you see the current rumor as most members are stating here which is PAF getting J-10 initially by the end of 2009 and then by 2014 perhaps we will get the FC-20, version specifically built for Pakistan i would say. I mean if we consider the above rumor to be true, don't you think it will only add to cost maintaining 2 different type of platforms for an already budget constraint airforce.
About the older F-16s i agree with the most part, however one point i do want to bring it to your attention if it isn't already that PAF is not only interested in older F-16s from the US, but from where ever it can get it hands on, and in the light of that is it safe to assume that when Turkey will move towards the JSF, their F-16s can be bought my Pakistan and if yes then it wouldn't be a bad idea, certainly cost effective as well.

That's a very good idea.If PAF can maintain 30 years+ old Mirages I am sure they can also maintain old F'16s of Turkey and other countries which are willing to sell them.