Chengdu J-10 Multirole Fighter Air Craft News & Discussions

[mean_bird]

But sir MuradK, pshamim and others with inside contacts have all confirmed that 36 J-10A (F-10A) will be in Pakistan by the end of this year and/or early next year.

Couldn't the Air Chief simply be referring to the modified variant FC-20, perhaps the same/similar to J-10B (aka Super-10 by the Russians)?

That's definitely a possibility since he said : "after improving them further would be delivered to PAF in 2014‑15."

Its very confusing... J-10, FC-20, new aircraft by pak and china in 2012 (as reported by pshamim).

First of all we need to clear this up...lets see what the other newspaper have to say tomorrow as our journalists can't really be trusted in dates or names.

 

[fatman17]

Is that a boo boo by our journalists or has the plan changed? 2014 is still a long way to go

First the news on that J-10s will be inducted, even the ACM in his interviews earlier had said that. Murad saheb on this forum as well as various respected members on pakdef have report J-10 coming from dec. 2009 to next year.

This is strange news...Are we buying some now and some later? or waiting till 2014 to get the FC-20...which seems the case if we want the WS-10, and chinese AESA, etc

2014-15 was always the plan for induction of the FC-20. it is posters on this forum who have decided to change the induction date for the FC-20.

it is amazing that we are still not believing what the ACM has stated!

arm-chair ACMs should be careful in future!

 

[Quwa]

Regarding the ACM dates, seems PAF will get J-10B in 2014-2015.

 

[pakpower]

The Bottom Line is that We dont have enough money to get these birds in our colours so that's we are getting these jets so late as we expected earlier. And surely the dates which ACM or News paper mentions is far far far away right now.

 

[mean_bird]

2014-15 was always the plan for induction of the FC-20. it is posters on this forum who have decided to change the induction date for the FC-20.

Well Murad sahib on this forum as well as other senior members and respected on pakdef had also said that the first J-10 would be arriving in Dec 2009 and a squadron ready by April 2010.

Ofcourse the FC-20 (or improved J-10) would be inducted in 2014-15... but I was wondering in some J-10A would be sought before on soft loans as was confirmed by these senior and respected members.

 

[All-Green]

The time line given by ACM is realistic if we take into consideration the hinted improvements which are to be made on the J-10 platform to make it FC-20.
I think Pakistan would have decided all of this taking into account the threat being faced currently and risk assessment of delaying delivery of J-10 (if it was to be delivered in 2009 it would certainly not be FC-20) to make sure we get FC-20 and not J-10A.
Maybe the delivery of F-16 BLK 52 and MLU for existing fleet is considered certain by Armed Forces (a lot of US/China visits by military and government of Pakistan delegations lately) and they can wait a bit more for the FC-20 instead of going with J-10A.
Personally i would have even preferred J-10As at this point in time to enhance PAF capability (if we had the money) but clearly we are not privy to all the details and i think this would have been the best option for PAF since budget limitations dictate that we spend money where it is worth spending.
Upgrading F-16s is a good step since we already have them but buying brand new J-10A fighters and then immediately upgrading after 4-5 years may not be a very bright idea.
If we get J-10A now and decide to upgrade later to FC-20 it may not be possible and would certainly not be cost effective.

One can hope that this decision is the result of a well thought out strategy by those responsible keeping in mind all the factors.

 

[Luftwaffe]

maybe a slight touch and other structural changes like EF2000 for the 2014 fleet of FC-20 who knows.

 

[hj786]

Maybe the delivery of F-16 BLK 52 and MLU for existing fleet is considered certain by Armed Forces (a lot of US/China visits by military and government of Pakistan delegations lately) and they can wait a bit more for the FC-20 instead of going with J-10A.
Personally i would have even preferred J-10As at this point in time to enhance PAF capability (if we had the money) but clearly we are not privy to all the details and i think this would have been the best option for PAF since budget limitations dictate that we spend money where it is worth spending.
Upgrading F-16s is a good step since we already have them but buying brand new J-10A fighters and then immediately upgrading after 4-5 years may not be a very bright idea.
If we get J-10A now and decide to upgrade later to FC-20 it may not be possible and would certainly not be cost effective.

But PAF surely are getting J-10A at the end of this year, insiders on two different forums have confirmed it. The air chief said it in an older interview as well, F-10A over the next couple of years and then "high tech" FC-20 later.
Even in this latest interview, somebody said the air chief's comments on J-10 were added to by the Chinese representative, who said something like "but the first aeroplanes will fly in Pakistan this year". This is almost certainly pointing at J-10, since JF has been flying in Pakistan for the last two years.

One more point. I don't see how buying J-10A now and FC-20 later is not cost effective. The main difference is expected to be new radar and engine, and they may even be able to retro-fit the J-10A with those.

 

[araz]

But PAF surely are getting J-10A at the end of this year, insiders on two different forums have confirmed it. The air chief said it in an older interview as well, F-10A over the next couple of years and then "high tech" FC-20 later.
Even in this latest interview, somebody said the air chief's comments on J-10 were added to by the Chinese representative, who said something like "but the first aeroplanes will fly in Pakistan this year". This is almost certainly pointing at J-10, since JF has been flying in Pakistan for the last two years.

One more point. I don't see how buying J-10A now and FC-20 later is not cost effective. The main difference is expected to be new radar and engine, and they may even be able to retro-fit the J-10A with those.

ACM in one of his interviews said hat we will get J10s and also acquire FC20s. Having said that it seems that we will wait and go for FC20s there being no present threat to our sovereignty (at least an external one!!!). I think there was a message sent out to the parties concerned that PAF does have options and can exercise them rapidly if needed so dont mess around with us!! It obviously has worked and we are back on schedule with time lines for induction for FC20s. Though the number could end up being higher, than the40or so , suspect it iwill be done in batches.
Araz

 

[pakpower]

Pakistan has not enought power to get more then 40 Planes even in year 2015. These all hypocriates Politiican will fill their pockets instead of buying jets for the defence of the company.

 

[All-Green]

But PAF surely are getting J-10A at the end of this year, insiders on two different forums have confirmed it. The air chief said it in an older interview as well, F-10A over the next couple of years and then "high tech" FC-20 later.
Even in this latest interview, somebody said the air chief's comments on J-10 were added to by the Chinese representative, who said something like "but the first aeroplanes will fly in Pakistan this year". This is almost certainly pointing at J-10, since JF has been flying in Pakistan for the last two years.

One more point. I don't see how buying J-10A now and FC-20 later is not cost effective. The main difference is expected to be new radar and engine, and they may even be able to retro-fit the J-10A with those.

Me thinks that had situation been out of control, PAF would certainly have gone with J-10A at this stage and i also clearly stated that it would have been my strategy (even in current scenario).
However i think that maybe in light of threat assessment and cost analysis, it may come to pass that we do not see J-10A at all in PAF but direct induction of FC-20.

I do not have any inside link but if we assume that FC-20 may have significantly better engines, structural changes/enhancements, TVC, enhanced Radar and avionics; it will certainly bear a tremendous cost to fit these modifications to J-10A and may even not be possible (limitations are always there).
I think it is quite logical to assume that it will be cost effective to buy the FC-20 instead of buying J-10A and then upgrading (if possible).

Maybe i am proven wrong and we get J-10A this year...
I would love to be wrong here

 

[hj786]

ACM in one of his interviews said hat we will get J10s and also acquire FC20s. Having said that it seems that we will wait and go for FC20s there being no present threat to our sovereignty (at least an external one!!!). I think there was a message sent out to the parties concerned that PAF does have options and can exercise them rapidly if needed so dont mess around with us!! It obviously has worked and we are back on schedule with time lines for induction for FC20s. Though the number could end up being higher, than the40or so , suspect it iwill be done in batches.
Araz

I disagree, sir Muradk on this forum and (I think) pshamim on another forum, both ex PAF pilots, have stated very very recently that J-10A will be in Pakistan late this year/early next year. I don't see why PAF would change their mind so quickly.

 

[melb4aust]

I disagree, sir Muradk on this forum and (I think) pshamim on another forum, both ex PAF pilots, have stated very very recently that J-10A will be in Pakistan late this year/early next year. I don't see why PAF would change their mind so quickly.

A new Air chief may do so........

Even though claimed by some authentic sources like sir Muradk or others, it seemed pretty unlikely that FC-20 to be inducted into PAF without installing western avionics or some other major add-on's along with its maturization as per PAF requirements.

 

[hj786]

A new Air chief may do so........

The new Air Chief may cancel F-16 MLU program, stop buying any more than first 42 JF, cancel the ZDK-03 contract... the list can go on.

Even though claimed by some authentic sources like sir Muradk or others, it seemed pretty unlikely that FC-20 to be inducted into PAF without installing western avionics or some other major add-on's along with its maturization as per PAF requirements.

The first 36 J-10 that should be delivered late this year/early next year will not be FC-20! They will be J-10A, designated F-10A according to ex-Air Chief Tanvir M. Ahmad.

It also seemed unlikely that PAF would induct JF without installing western avionics, but they did. They didn't make any Western add-ons to the JF at all, why would they need to do so on the J-10? It is supposed to be more capable than JF, JF uses technology from the J-10 (according to Jane's, the JF's KLJ-7 radar is a smaller version of the J-10's KLJ-10 radar).

 

[notorious_eagle]

I agree, i think the J10A program is still on track but even if its stopped i dont think there is anything wrong with that. PAF will get even better planes by 2014 or 2015, i have heard from several sources that J10B should be better or as good as Eurofighter. I know for a fact that PAF pilots who have evaluated both EF and J10 believe that J10 has more potential than EF. J10 is more maneuverable; but if better sensors, avionics and radars are added to the package(which the Chinese are working on) it can give the EF a fight for its money.
P.S. HJ786; i dont think PAF is looking specifically for Western avionics or radars, i think they will be more comfortable if they can add on better Chinese avionics or radars which are equavilent or better to their western counterparts.