Chengdu J-10 Multirole Fighter Air Craft News & Discussions

[krash]

its this a FC-20 or an early prototype of a J-10?..

Thats an X-31. It was made for the U.S.NASA-German Rockwell-Messerschmitt-Bölkow-Blohm X-31 VECTOR Enhanced Fighter Maneuverability program to experiment with thrust vectoring.

 

[localoca]

Thats an X-31. It was made for the U.S.NASA-German Rockwell-Messerschmitt-Bölkow-Blohm X-31 VECTOR Enhanced Fighter Maneuverability program to experiment with thrust vectoring.

so will the J-10 have TV...

 

[SBD-3]

so will the J-10 have TV...

its not confirmed yet that FC-20 will have TVC Engine. However, some Chinese posters indicated early generation of WS-15 for J-10B (FC-20) which yet, remains to be confirmed.

 

[abaseen99]

 

[siegecrossbow]

Fan made CG animation of J-10bs fighting what appears to be Go'auld Death gliders.

maya71_[

 

[ANG]

Hi, this is an interesting development, conformal fuel tanks being developed for the FC-20/J-10. Take care.

Chinese J-10 Fighter With Conformal Fuel Tanks CFT's In Wind Tunnel Testing ~ ASIAN DEFENCE NEWS

 

[abdulbarijan]

Now i wasn't completely satisfied by the answers given in the indian section so i decided that we should discuss it here since it concerns both india and pakistan

FC-20 vs MMRCA (Rafale or Typhoon)
Radar:-

Mr.Prins says the most key features of the super viper features when it comes to the jet capability
-AESA radar
Now according to wikipedia
Typhoon has the
Euroradar CAPTOR which although does have an AESA varient at present but is not used in the typhoon but is intended to replace Captor in the future.
mean while the rafale has the
RBE2(PESA)

So the question now being will the Indian MMRCA jet (euorofighter or rafale) feature an AESA ???
According to Mr.Prins the difference b/w the super viper and other MMRCA aircrafts was the AESA..

FC-20 on the other hand will have an AESA as the redesigned jet has a longer nose cone
pic of J-10B with longer nose cone

Maneuverability:-

Now currently Rafale neither the typhoon does have TVC (according to my info so plz correct if the fact is otherwise)

FC-20 is rumored to have a new engine with TVC

Stealth:-

Now lets compare stealth capabilities

the rafale uses extensive composite materials and serrated patterns on the trailing edges of the wings and canards to help reduce the radar cross section (RCS)

The euorotyphoon although not designated a stealth fighter, measures were taken to reduce the Typhoon's radar cross section (RCS), especially from the frontal aspect. An example of these measures is that the Typhoon has jet inlets that conceal the front of the jet engine (a strong radar target) from radar. Many important potential radar targets, such as the wing, canard and fin leading edges, are highly swept, so will reflect radar energy well away from the front sector. Some external weapons are mounted semi-recessed into the aircraft, partially shielding these missiles from incoming radar waves. In addition radar absorbent materials (RAM) developed primarily by EADS/DASA coat many of the most significant reflectors, e.g. the wing leading edges, the intake edges and interior, the rudder surrounds, strakes, etc. The Typhoon does not use internal storage of weapons. External mounting points are used instead, which increases its radar cross section but allows for more and larger stores.

But FC-20 has DSI intakes which are more stealthy,extensive use of composites and ram so it should be safe to say that J-10 B is the most stealthiest amongst the three...

This is just a lame attempt to put the thread in the direction of FC-20 in terms of how effective will it be when going up against one of the MMRCA aircrafts which according to this vid are typhoon or rafale

 

[SQ8]

For starters any attempt to flame by ANYBODY here instead of a logical post will lead to a ban..ive had it upto here with messed up vs threads.

Now..
lets take the above in one by one.

Radar:
The Fc-20 is based on the J-10.. and since we are generally well acquainted with the J-10's radar.. the KJL-10.. it can be a safe assumption that any AESA designed by the Chinese would be based on this line up(if the Chinese follow a stepwise tech tree). We dont have much on the the way of the KJL-10's capabilities but the ones for the KJL-7 are somewhat know.. and as we have read here and I have heard.. the PAF is quite satisfied with the radar..
therefore. The KJL-10 cannot be anything less than the KJL-7. The Chinese have just stepped into the realm of AESA.. so it remains to be seen what path they chose to follow.. The Russians also use AESA.. yet theirs is still based on slightly primitive chipsets. resulting in larger (if more powerful) T/R modules. The Americans have relied on miniaturization and their AESA antenna are made up of no less than a 1000-1500 T/R modules compared to the russians more modest 600-800. So while Russian radars can see further... they are less precise.
Come to the Chinese.. Their initial approach was to reverse engineer or emulate Russian designs.. a quick way of getting things done.
After the 90's and the computer boom..they changed their approach considerably.. they have adapted technology much more comprehensively than the west has.. and they want to use it everywhere they can. Thus while the Chinese AESA may have elements of Russian designs.. its processors are going to be based on western ideas.
Just how effective this AESA will be.. cant be quantified now.

The MMRCA AESA's.. well..the American ones are battle tested.. and come from a rich pedigree of radars.. The Russians.. too have operational AESA's.. albeit less capable than the Americans.. The European AESA's have not been tested..and are still in the pipeline.

Maneuverability:

With the advent of 5th gen missiles..which will equip both the MMRCA and FC-20.. the need for turning superiority.. in the knife fight is diminishing at a rapid rate.. unless a new kind of counter measure is found.. most fights in the WVR wont be too long.. either it will be a fire and run and expect a kill..or fire, get killed.. maybe the other guy got killed as well. In this case...its the one who can point the nose..or in today's HMS environment.. point the head at the target quicker.. which means the two guy philosophy will have the upper edge.. where one can concentrate on flying and the other can make the kill. If however..there is a need to point the nose for a kill...
Then it comes down to instantaneous turn rates.. in which case.. the Eurocanards..and the FC-20 both are equally matched..on aerodynamics..
add TVC..then it comes down to raw power.. since the aerodynamic part takes a back seat.
Right now...apart from the Mig-35.. all other jets apart from the Americans offer TVC as part of a roadmap..
There are speculations about TVC on the J-10..nothing more.
So when it comes to maneuverability.. Ill go with even.

Stealth:

each of the competitors in the MMRCA competition offer reduced RCS from the "standard" model. Out of which.. the Superhornet is clearly showing the upper hand in moving for a complete RCS solution..
the Rafale's RCS reduction is still very 90's.. the Eurofighter offers the least frontal RCS or so it claims.. using canard control..which the Chinese have adapted already.. That leaves the F-16..which has all the "have glass" improvements built in.. is still a little behind the SH and the eurocanards.. the Mig is dead last in this arena.
the FC-20 however...has taken all that is best in each of them.. and another bit that isnt..and merged them into its design..
while DSI isnt exactly a magic wand.. it is easy for even a casual enthusiast to realize that it offers benefits in terms of engine blade concealment.
Use of extensive composite's and honeycomb structures in the FC-20's design have been claimed on Chinese forums.. for now.. I can only confirm the composites..
What will be the final RCS(sorry gambit.. I know its variable..but we something to go on).. probably somewhere in the range of the eurofighter and the Rafale.


I am ignoring the weapons fit on the aircraft...as per the post's format..
But in a one on one scenario..the FC-20 would be able to hold its own in a fight with any of the above MMRCA..
but its rarely that way.. in air combat between our nation's the future. Most view it as a fast high paced mixup..
In that case.. the pilots having the most situational awareness would be having the edge.
if the MMRCA goes West..and it will.. the bar will be very high for the FC-20 to beat.

 

[abaseen99]

Chinese J-10 Fighter With Conformal Fuel Tanks CFT's In Wind Tunnel Testing ~ ASIAN DEFENCE NEWS

in pic shows one is j 10b while another one fc 20 whats defferents......?

 

[Jungibaaz]

Chinese J-10 Fighter With Conformal Fuel Tanks CFT's In Wind Tunnel Testing ~ ASIAN DEFENCE NEWS

in pic shows one is j 10b while another one fc 20 whats defferents......?

J-10B is a variant of J-10, FC-20 is an export variant of J-10B tailored for the PAF.
and i must say, i'm in love with the pic of the FC-20

The FC-20 is a twin seater, with CFTs and other goodies in that pic

 

[TOPGUN]

Can't wait to see our first fc-20 inshallah will be some sight..

 

[nightcrawler]

In the film namely Tomorrow.When.The.War.Began.2010. which are the three planes that are following single Australian plane?? Those to me look like J10s & the plane being followed either a F-18/15??

 

[Fieldmarshal]

In the film namely Tomorrow.When.The.War.Began.2010. which are the three planes that are following single Australian plane?? Those to me look like J10s & the plane being followed either a F-18/15??

J-10 following and shoots down a F-18.

 

[houshanghai]

Y8CA 079 radar testbed (j10B AESA)

link;http://www.top81.cn/top81bbs/thread.php?cid=1&rootid=2799667&id=2800320
old pic

 

[applesauce]

Y8CA 079 radar testbed (j10B AESA)

this may be kinda a dumb question but what are the lines between the tail and the front of the aircraft do?