Chengdu J-10 Multirole Fighter Air Craft News & Discussions

[420canada]

this has to be a sick joke J-10b is not going to be in PAF colors?!?!?

 

[2ndslip]

Still not true happening!

Anti Pakistan forces control Pakistani politicians and they are advised to block funds for defence production.

Zardari delivered first blow and next regime will deliver second blow.... J-10 cannot be with Pakistani as long pro Indian forces are ruling Pakistan.

At the same time Iran, India and Afghanistan are being armed by overt covert means.

You have no evidence for this. I hate these conspiracy nuts. Pakistan made some bad decisions, got Islamist insurgency as a result. The Army runs Pakistan in many ways. No one has an once of proof that the MoF has denied funds for new stuff. If Pakistan doesnt get J-10's, it'll be a strategic or monetary reason, not because some politician blocked such a purchase.

It's feasible that PAF thinks there are more cost effective options, its possible the funds arent there. No leader in Pak - however crap, has denied the army funds when they have been available to give.

 

[Storm Force]

2nd Slip

It's feasible that PAF thinks there are more cost effective options,

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...role-fighter-air-craft-443.html#ixzz2SuuzKgVY

THE ONLY CHEAPER fighter than J10 in the 4th generation era is the JF17

ALL other fighters are MORE EXPENSIVE.

UNLESS YOU MEAN no fighters MORE SAMS and awacs

 

[BATMAN]

You have no evidence for this. I hate these conspiracy nuts. Pakistan made some bad decisions, got Islamist insurgency as a result. The Army runs Pakistan in many ways. No one has an once of proof that the MoF has denied funds for new stuff. If Pakistan doesnt get J-10's, it'll be a strategic or monetary reason, not because some politician blocked such a purchase.

It's feasible that PAF thinks there are more cost effective options, its possible the funds arent there. No leader in Pak - however crap, has denied the army funds when they have been available to give.

Exactly.. i hate these hater nuts who keep spewing baseless hate about army.. i do not even need to ask you about evidence because constitutional and practically army is controlled by Asif Ali Zardari... and he is openly begging the world to teach Pak army lesson and former ISI chief was humiliated and victimised by judiciary for collecting evidence of it.

Pakistan made mistake when BB transferred nuclear technology to Iran and India and AQ Khan and former army chief / president statements are on record.

It is also on record that Asif Ali Zardari blocked the development funds of JF-17 and it is a ground reality that Pakistan did not went ahead with J-10 due to cuts in defence budget by the regime of Asif Ali Zardari and rest is my analysis that next regime will deliver even bigger blow to defence establishment.

 

[M_Saint]

You have no evidence for this. I hate these conspiracy nuts. Pakistan made some bad decisions, got Islamist insurgency as a result. The Army runs Pakistan in many ways. No one has an once of proof that the MoF has denied funds for new stuff. If Pakistan doesnt get J-10's, it'll be a strategic or monetary reason, not because some politician blocked such a purchase.

It's feasible that PAF thinks there are more cost effective options, its possible the funds arent there. No leader in Pak - however crap, has denied the army funds when they have been available to give.

2ndslip, BATMAN has commented 100% accurately on the post #6636, IMHO.There exists conspiracy theory but leveling every rational and logical call/suspicion as such is itself the biggest conspiracy to me. PAK MIL hasn't acquired any significant teeth during Zardari's rule but has been put to fight against Pashtuns that are historically Anti-Brahhamnic-Elitists and rooted Muslims. Every time, monetary excuse was brought then how on earth 100s of billions of Rupees were spent to kill FATAians? Zardari's becomming president through emotional black mail (Cashing on Benzir's murder and parliamentarian's 'yea' but not by direct vote of public) and occupying PPP's chairmanship illegally while in presidency were the biggest recipes of letting PAK being off guarded IMO.

 

[BATMAN]

Sorry, it is not relevant to thread but BB's regime was dismissed twice on corruption charges (reason dhula bhai) and now those who were not born in 90's have witnessed zardari regime.
Till today, zardari boast for lack of evidence.... while i simply stated facts.
Actually, there are senior position holders on this forum who will spew baseless poison against army the moment some one from their sect. dies in daily explosions.

 

[araz]

Sorry, it is not relevant to thread but BB's regime was dismissed twice on corruption charges (reason dhula bhai) and now those who were not born in 90's have witnessed zardari regime.
Till today, zardari boast for lack of evidence.... while i simply stated facts.
Actually, there are senior position holders on this forum who will spew baseless poison against army the moment some one from their sect. dies in daily explosions.

BM
The only problem is that the one God whom Zardari really loves is mai Laxmi.Now any buying od J10s would have had a fdw kickbacks involved.For Zardari it would have been another opporthnity to make money and he would not have let go.So there is more to theJ10 saga than money. the factors delaying decision in this regards are.
A)The lack of money. we know ws dont even have enough to pay the interest on the loan.

B) The lack of/maturity of WS10.Idont think AL31 FN is cleared for export to Pakistan.
C) The delay inMRCA contract is allowing us some breathing space which is being used to develop JFT.
D) It has been reported rhat J10B has had some unexpected delays. The reasons remain unclear.
E)The dilemma which PAF faces with regards to the cost benefit exercise of inducting J10 now a
or wait for J31which although possibly a decade awaycould be abetter bet andanswer to our neighbour's acqjisitiona
araz

 

[Bamboo Castle]

J10 is not arriving due to engine. Since jf17 is carries Russian engine...the problem is the same its about cost. Paf have no funds, you guys have been talking abt buying j10. For 7 years in this forum. It may also be that the paf have realised that their f16s are superior and China tech is not reliable or mature in war as the awsome f16. One thing for sure the chinease are ready to sell u guys have cold feet

Why would Pakistan govt. go for a platform that is of same generation (JF-17 is a 4th generation fighter air craft and so is J-10). It is obvious that PAF is not getting any J-10.

If you go by capabilities of J-10 and JF-17, you would find they are not very different. PAF has a platform they have developed with Chinese help and it did mature (unlike Tejas). Now, your govt. would go for upgrading the platform to better suit your requirements. They would go for further modification like increase number of hardpoints, find better radar, find minor modification of the surface to improve performance, install better aviation suit, better navigation equipment, find or make (maybe jointly with China or some other country) a own engine etc.

Comparison between J-10 vs JF-17

Useful load
6,000 kg vs 3000 kg

Thrust with afterburner
125 kN vs 84.5 kN

Maximum speed
Mach 2.2 vs Mach 1.6

Combat radius
1,600 km vs 1,352 km

Service ceiling
18,000 m vs 16,920 m

Thrust/weight
1.024 vs .95

Guns
1× 23mm twin-barrel cannon vs 1× 23mm twin-barrel cannon

Hard-point
11 with 6,000 kg vs 7 with 3,629 kg

Air-to-air Missiles
PL-8, PL-9, PL-11, PL-12 vs AIM-9, PL-5, PL-9, PL-12

Air-to-surface Missiles
PJ-9, YJ-9K vs MAR-1, C-802A, Ra'ad ALCM

Bombs (guided)
LT-2, LS-6 vs GBU-10, GBU-12, LT-2, H-2, H-4, LS-6

See for yourself and find yourself the better option. What would you say, upgrade your existing 4th generation platform or go for a new 4th generation platform with similar capabilities? ask youself.

 

[BATMAN]

^^ This is the main reason that J-10 will never make it to PAF.

Adding another paltform without additional value is not wise thingy.

P.S.: The data on JF-17 is outdated.

 

[Storm Force]

YOUR comparison below provrES THAT J10 beats the JFT THUNDER in ev ery single department


Comparison between J-10 vs JF-17

Useful load
6,000 kg vs 3000 kg

Thrust with afterburner
125 kN vs 84.5 kN

Maximum speed
Mach 2.2 vs Mach 1.6

Combat radius
1,600 km vs 1,352 km

Service ceiling
18,000 m vs 16,920 m

Thrust/weight
1.024 vs .95

Guns
1× 23mm twin-barrel cannon vs 1× 23mm twin-barrel cannon

Hard-point
11 with 6,000 kg vs 7 with 3,629 kg

Air-to-air Missiles
PL-8, PL-9, PL-11, PL-12 vs AIM-9, PL-5, PL-9, PL-12

Air-to-surface Missiles
PJ-9, YJ-9K vs MAR-1, C-802A, Ra'ad ALCM

Bombs (guided)
LT-2, LS-6 vs GBU-10, GBU-12, LT-2, H-2, H-4, LS-6



Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...role-fighter-air-craft-443.html#ixzz2T4qefUMT

THE ONLY AREA where JFT has the dge is the cost ie Half that of the J10

Personally i feel THE PAF will not acquire J10 because it adds no new western weapons AND i feel the PAF know that F16/52 is a better warplane TODAY then both J10 & defo JFT.

I thik the PAF will try for more F16s id relations with USA can improve

for me a WISE CHOICE (if you discount sanctions threats)

 

[Bamboo Castle]

YOUR comparison below provrES THAT J10 beats the JFT THUNDER in ev ery single department


Comparison between J-10 vs JF-17

Useful load
6,000 kg vs 3000 kg

Thrust with afterburner
125 kN vs 84.5 kN

Maximum speed
Mach 2.2 vs Mach 1.6

Combat radius
1,600 km vs 1,352 km

Service ceiling
18,000 m vs 16,920 m

Thrust/weight
1.024 vs .95

Guns
1× 23mm twin-barrel cannon vs 1× 23mm twin-barrel cannon

Hard-point
11 with 6,000 kg vs 7 with 3,629 kg

Air-to-air Missiles
PL-8, PL-9, PL-11, PL-12 vs AIM-9, PL-5, PL-9, PL-12

Air-to-surface Missiles
PJ-9, YJ-9K vs MAR-1, C-802A, Ra'ad ALCM

Bombs (guided)
LT-2, LS-6 vs GBU-10, GBU-12, LT-2, H-2, H-4, LS-6



Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...role-fighter-air-craft-443.html#ixzz2T4qefUMT

THE ONLY AREA where JFT has the dge is the cost ie Half that of the J10

Personally i feel THE PAF will not acquire J10 because it adds no new western weapons AND i feel the PAF know that F16/52 is a better warplane TODAY then both J10 & defo JFT.

I thik the PAF will try for more F16s id relations with USA can improve

for me a WISE CHOICE (if you discount sanctions threats)

Although, what you are saying are very much right, that does not suppress the opportunity for upgrading PAF own JF-17. JF-17 is at its early life and in general sense an aircraft may have 20 to 40 years of flight life and within this huge lifespan they always go for midlife upgrades. Also, when you have a fighter of your own, you would find upgrades when you give it time.

F-16 program started with F-16 Block 1. and has evolved so many times. Following is how F-16 evolved in time.


F-16A/B: (Basic version)

1. Equipped with the Westinghouse AN/APG-66 pulse-doppler radar
2. Pratt & Whitney F100-PW-200 turbofan


F-16A/B Block 15 upgrades:

1. Larger horizontal stabilizers (to counter the additional weight of the new hardpoints, the horizontal stabilizers were enlarged by 30%)
2. Addition of two hardpoints to the chin inlet
3. An improved AN/APG-66(V)2 radar
4. Increased capacity for the underwing hardpoints
5. Have Quick II secure UHF radio


F-16A/B Block 20:

1. Improved AN/APG-66(V)3 radar with added CW mode
2. AIM-7M Sparrow missiles
3. AIM-120 AMRAAM
4. AGM-84 Harpoon missiles
5. LANTIRN navigation and targeting pod
6. The computers are significantly improved
7. Color MFD


F-16C Block 25:

1. Westinghouse AN/APG-68 radar
2. Improved precision night-attack capability
3. Substantial improvement in cockpit avionics
4. Improved fire-control and stores management computers
5. Up-Front Controls (UFC) integrated data control panel, data-transfer equipment,
6. MFD displays
7. Radar altimeter
8. Upgraded Pratt & Whitney F100-PW-220E engine


F-16 Block 30:

1. The General Electric F110-GE-100 engine
2. AGM-45 Shrike
3. AGM-88 HARM
4. AIM-120 missiles
5. Improved inertial guidance systems
6. Improved electronic warfare suite (AN/ALQ-213)
7. Inertial Navigation Unit (INU) was first changed to a ring laser gyro
8. Global Positioning System (GPS) receiver
9. Inertial Navigation System (INS)
10. Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM)
11. GPS-aided munitions


F-16C/D Block 40/42:

1. Improved all-day/all-weather strike variant
2. Strengthened and lengthened undercarriage for LANTIRN pods
3. Improved radar and GPS receiver
4. Increased the weapon JDAM, AGM-154 Joint Standoff Weapon (JSOW), Wind-Corrected Munitions Dispenser (WCMD) and the (Enhanced) EGBU-27 Paveway "bunker-buster"
5. Aviator's Night Vision Imaging System (ANVIS)


F-16C Block 52:

1. Improved GPS/INS
2. Block 50 are powered by the F110-GE-129 while the Block 52 jets use the F100-PW-229


F-16C/D Block 50/52 Plus:

1. Conformal fuel tanks (CFTs)
2. Dorsal spine compartment
3. APG-68(V9) radar
4. On-Board Oxygen Generation (OBOGS) system and a JHMCS helmet


F-16E/F:

1. Improved radar and avionics and conformal fuel tanks
2. Northrop Grumman AN/APG-80 Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar
3. Capability to simultaneously track and destroy ground and air threats
4. General Electric F110-GE-132 engine
5. The Electronic Warfare system includes the Northrop Grumman Falcon Edge Integrated Electronic Warfare Suite RWR together with the AN/ALQ-165 Self-Protection Jammer
6. Falcon Edge, is capable of showing not only the bearing of any threat but also the range
7. The Block 60 allows the carriage of all Block 50/52-compatible weaponry
8 . AIM-132 Advanced Short Range Air-to-Air Missile (ASRAAM)
9. AGM-84E Standoff Land Attack Missile (SLAM)
10. MIL-STD-1773 fiber-optic data bus
11. 1,000 times increase in data-handling capability
12. Built in FLIR/laser targeting system

 

[sancho]

THE ONLY AREA where JFT has the dge is the cost ie Half that of the J10

The TWR is better as well, since these specs are not completely accurate, but the issue is not if JF17 can be equal or superior to J10, but how close it could be at lower procurement and operational costs and if it's better for PAF to use the available funds to save it for NG fighters, instead of another 4th to 4.5th fighter?
A broader base of JF 17 in higher numbers and still "good enough" capabilities close to J10 with J31 in the long run will give PAF clearly the better mix for the future.

 

[Storm Force]

Bamboo

USA has unlimited TECHNOLOGY and unlimted CASH to upgrade their F16 over 30 years

More importantly IT WAS A MASSIVE GLOBAL SUCCESS.

The investment in the F16 was OF super power porpotions.IE WORLD CLASS

the JFT will never the see the WORLD class investment that F16 had over 3 decades. ITS financially NOT POSSIBLE

moreover THE F16 TWR size & span ARE IN J10 league ie meduim weight fighter.

THE CHINEASE WILL SPEND BIG IMPRIOVING J10 as its THEIR version OF THE F16

who WILL give the JFT the same investment ?????

 

[sancho]

pakistan need j/10 to Replace its old F-16 which it bought in 80s SO not buying J/10 is out of Question

Not really, these F16 are going through MLU right now and will remain in service for another decades at least, which would be the perfect timeframe to replace them with a NG fighter like J31. The J10s would be inducted around 2015 and would be mainly an addition to the JF 17 on the upper side, but with similar radar, avionics, weapons and for much higher costs.

 

[SQ8]

Not really, these F16 are going through MLU right now and will remain in service for another decades at least, which would be the perfect timeframe to replace them with a NG fighter like J31. The J10s would be inducted around 2015 and would be mainly an addition to the JF 17 on the upper side, but with similar radar, avionics, weapons and for much higher costs.

That may not happen. Primarily due to financial reasons but this has had the unexpected good in the ASR being revised and greater percentage of 5th gen aircraft within the PAF orbat.