Chengdu J-10 Multirole Fighter Air Craft News & Discussions

[Armstrong]

The financial situation of Pakistan requires lateral thinking. Do you add to your inventory types with another plane, when for the cost of one of these you can induct 2 of JFTs.Please consider that it will not just be the plane but the whole infrastructure required for it.This obviously is time and money consuming as well as training intensive, for a force that is already struggling with 2 new platforms(JFT and F16sMLU) It is your bird and the money you spend goes into developing it further. There are also issues around J10B not having been inducted in PLAAF. As with new planes, PLAAF would fulfill theri own requirements and PAF would wait for the platform to mature. Thirdly what is the threat perception. The rafale is not on the scene, PAF is busy inducting the JFT and MLUed F16s need new planning due to improved capabilities. Do you need to take on newer inventory at this stage. PAF needs time to settle down with itsa new toys before it goes for J10.
Araz

Not to mention the JF-17 provides substantial growth potential because of the very reason how it was designed i.e the body was developed separate from the equipment to speed things up & enough space was intentionally kept to not only allow it to be fitted what was available to the PAF at the time when the JF-17 was finally inducted as opposed to keep the design parameters fixated as per the equipment that was available at the time of the designing stage but also to allow for subsequent upgrades. A concept that, if I understood AM Shahid Lateef correctly, was borrowed from the F-16. I see no reason why the JF-17 cannot be, in the future, fitted with an AESA radar, IRST capability & if the Chinese come up with such an engine - a supercruise or thrust-vectoring capability.

 

[araz]

RD93 was an assurance that the chinese got or you so for all intents that issue becomes irrelevant. There is sense in the russians agreeing to sellRD 93 to you and that is the sheer number of units(500). That will never be the case with j10and if you look at the reviews,nowhere will you find that sort of projection. To the contrary the chinese themselves are reluctant buyers of AL31instead making strides towards getting WS10 ready for mass production. This would mean reduction in number ofunits required and therefore the russians would not like to annoy the Indians.
I have never said that JFT is the answer to everything but it is something that is in your hands that can be developed to the extent you require it and so could become what you want it to be for you.Within the requirements of a country with little depth I think it ticks all the boxes you want it to be. The deficiencies could be covered byadding newer tech to the planerather than buying a djfferent plane. People on this boardc have gone wild at the thought of getting the Gripen which essentially is a plane in the class of JFT. So why not JFT itself.The current plane willevolve into a better one in the next 10 yrs.
The financial mismanagement of Pakistan is entirely the reason for this austere measure. So while accepting this do you not think we need to think how the money for repayment will come. As to Zardari I thjnk he would be very happy if the deal were done in his time as he will get his cut from it so he wont lose out either way.
Araz

 

[araz]

First we need to lay out what we get from J-10, which 2 IFR fitted, Thunder can't provide?

We fitted IFR to mirages. Do you think we cant do it to JFt.In 2008 the retractable probe of Gripen was shown at IDEAS.Why cant we install it?
Araz

 

[BATMAN]

I'm trying to say that 2 IFR fitted thunders are much better option than one J-10.

I'm not countering any thing.

 

[Bratva]

We fitted IFR to mirages. Do you think we cant do it to JFt.In 2008 the retractable probe of Gripen was shown at IDEAS.Why cant we install it?
Araz

That's the question why Retractable IFR idea was dropped and why Fixed IFR is appearing in block 2 why not in block 1?

 

[Armstrong]

That's the question why Retractable IFR idea was dropped and why Fixed IFR is appearing in block 2 why not in block 1?

Paiheeiii-Rokra-$$$-Money !

 

[Bratva]

Paiheeiii-Rokra-$$$-Money !

It's a flawed logic. If it was for money, IFR would not have appeared in block 2

 

[Armstrong]

It's a flawed logic. If it was for money, IFR would not have appeared in block 2

Why ? Isn't the Block 2s going to be inducted after 50 or so JF-17s are inducted into the PAF ? Which means that the Block 1s would be gradually upgraded to the Block 2 standards hence a more acceptable management of our cash-flows instead of spending it big-time on the first 100 orders (Blocks 1 & 2s) in one go we've tried to spread the cost of the first 50 over their respective life-cycles instead of an initial higher investment.

And so & so forth for Block 3 !

Or it could also be that we just didn't want to integrate so much into it before having more experience operating the bird for a number of years & after having flown enough sorties for us to be prized about the ins & outs of its performance parameters & any respective deficiencies. Perhaps we were looking into a more gradual easing in process with starting lightly & then building on it !

 

[Donatello]

JF-17 definitely needs an all round situation awareness system, like the Rafale's SPECTRA. It should have all the optronics fused with the rest of the avionics, so pilot can detect targets using radar and optics and anything in between, and deal with them on a priority basis.

 

[Thorough Pro]

I won't go in to details describing cost-benefit ratio and the flexibility and independance JFT provides to PAF, nor would am I trying to undermine the benefits of fewer platforms with regards to logistical and technical issues, however these are some other aspects that need due consideration rather than solely being focussed on the above two points only.

Despite all the flexibility and wide array of weaponary integrated or can be integrated in the future, JFT is a light weight fighter with limited range and does not provide a POTENT deep strike offensive capability, thus removes a worry from our adversaries.

As JFT becomes our mainstay fighter replacing A5, Mirage, and F7, on one hand it simplifys the logistical and technical issues, but on the other in a real war scenario, various types of enemy platforms will, be facing only one type of platform from our side, and when they find a weakness or method to effectively counter JFT, which sooner or later they will, then we will be left with nothing.

Having a variety of platforms in a war scenario with different capabilities provides depth and and breadth in both defensive and offensive capabilities and flexibility in choosing most appropriate platform to counter the attacking platforms sent by the adversay.

RD93 was an assurance that the chinese got or you so for all intents that issue becomes irrelevant. There is sense in the russians agreeing to sellRD 93 to you and that is the sheer number of units(500). That will never be the case with j10and if you look at the reviews,nowhere will you find that sort of projection. To the contrary the chinese themselves are reluctant buyers of AL31instead making strides towards getting WS10 ready for mass production. This would mean reduction in number ofunits required and therefore the russians would not like to annoy the Indians.
I have never said that JFT is the answer to everything but it is something that is in your hands that can be developed to the extent you require it and so could become what you want it to be for you.Within the requirements of a country with little depth I think it ticks all the boxes you want it to be. The deficiencies could be covered byadding newer tech to the planerather than buying a djfferent plane. People on this boardc have gone wild at the thought of getting the Gripen which essentially is a plane in the class of JFT. So why not JFT itself.The current plane willevolve into a better one jn the next 10 yrs

 

[Thorough Pro]

Troll post of no value. Reported. Recomended for ban.

Pakistan armed forces

We pick fights and get mauled..but we still 'win'
We fight using doped up crazies to blow up hotels and buildings..but we still 'win'

We win even if we lose..cos we are pakistan armed forces..its how it is..we are the best...dont say anything...except we always win

 

[andyagain]

et tu Thorough Pro

Troll post of no value. Reported. Recomended for ban.

 

[Safriz]

Pakistan armed forces

We pick fights and get mauled..but we still 'win'
We fight using doped up crazies to blow up hotels and buildings..but we still 'win'

We win even if we lose..cos we are pakistan armed forces..its how it is..we are the best...dont say anything...except we always win

Now i know why you had a oerna ban on your previous account.
You do show signs if mental instability....

 

[andyagain]

Yes Safriz,

I apologise for stating unfalsehoods..I shld be more circumspect

Now i know why you had a oerna ban on your previous account.
You do show signs if mental instability....

 

[SBD-3]

Look at the J-10B in the back, seems slightly different from J-10Bs we've seen til now.