Chengdu J-10 Multirole Fighter Air Craft News & Discussions

[abdulbarijan]

After having a long discussion with U, what I can only say is that neither U have power to comprehend what other has posted,nor U can keep ur emotion aside for a minute to get a logical discussion and if U can't comprehend the usage SIMILAR between timeframe and quality, no more discussion.

I leave U to this, to keep polishing the back of China as U have nothing of urs to show.

The problem is son that you are always asking ...
when you ask for proof, i gave it to you in form of articles,links and photographs which prove my point, while you keep resorting to your "tenses" etc ...

i give hard proof but when apparently I ask for proof from you, all i get is a little kid whining about how he got OWNED, so therefore the logical retreat from your side ... once again I ask these questions ...

-J-10 cannot pull 9g's ... Prove it ...

-J-10B does not have an AESA (its prototype does) ... so how come you can compare its development with LCA AESA which is still far from being even operational (even MK-1 with a PD radar) ...

-J-10B does not have WS-10 engine ... again prove it as a prototype is equip with it

-WS-10 (advance models like WS-10B with TVC) gives the same amount of thrust as al-31's ... prove it..


Now I know your last resort is saying J-10B is not operational yet and all that, but lets face the facts ...your initial post says something different which i responded to in the first place. ..

1. It will have AESA radar.(not having)

2. It can maneuverability of 9g.(it never had)

3. It will have WS 10/13 engine.(it don't have)

4. It can be compared to 4.5 gen fighter.(for what specific technology, only god knows)

5. It will have a very good EW suite.(No description about that good thing.)

Problem with someone like you whose whining about reasoning is that he himself lacks it big time!

I leave U to this, to keep polishing the back of China as U have nothing of urs to show.

It just burns you alive doesn't it, but its okay frankly I expected this whining from you after your initial post, dont worry this wont be your last time ...

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

interview with Air Vice-Marshal Javed Ahmed -Project Director of JF-17 Program　

Internet rumors of Pakistan will buy F-10 rumors, Air Vice Marshal Javad Ahmed denied. He said that China and Pakistan jointly developed the "Fierce Dragon" has succeeded in equipment, but China and Pakistan is still on its continue to improve its ability to multitask further improve, and Pakistan is also working to improve the "Fierce Dragon" The degree of localization. He said that the Pakistan Air Force needs to bring together all the resources together so as to achieve better results. "Fierce Dragon" fighter performance, multi-tasking ability, can Pakistan's current operational needs, and improved still further. F -10 is also out of the hands of the Chengdu Aircraft Manufacturing Company, Pakistan Air Force its also a certain understanding of the Zhuhai Airshow also be able to see the excellent performance of the August flight demonstration team, the Pakistan Air Force know F -10 advanced technology performance, but in the next few years, Pakistan will not consider buying.

?????????? ??????-10??_??_???

JAB JAHAZ KHREED NAHIN SAKTAY

TO RUMORS Q PHELATAY HO

 

[araz]

OK Guys Lets have a think about the J10 conundrum.
You have to understand that in many ways the changes coming about in China are staggering.You look at one thing draw out your plans and wallla they show you another toy. Nowhere in the world has progress taken a pace like china these days. But there are problems inspite of the vast variety there are problems for PAF. One of them is the lack of a suitable engine of chinese origin which means dwaling with the red bear which PAF is not too happy about. The second problem is the lack ofresources and even China will not sell without money. Our situation is so bad we are having difficulty paying back for what we have boughf already.
The kast aspect which was pointed out by pshamim saheb six months or so ago was the development potential if JFT which goes far beyond what was earlier expected. According to him the development potential is much more so than J10 which raised quite a few eyebrows. We have a plane which is incorporating newer technologies filtering down from J20and J10B and this incorporation can be done a lot cheaper than buying newer platforms. So in short we have comparable technologies of the other planes which we can incorporate relatively cheaply and with limited resources that is about all that we can do.
FThe advent of J31has thrown another spanner in the planners juggernaut. With the possibility of a comparable semi stealth/low observable plane which will share quite a few things with JFT,do we go for a new plane or go for the stealthy one. Please also consider that by the end of this decade all the strides China is making in engine manufacturing would have borne fruit and chinese engine development would be progresssing nicely.There would therefore be merit in waiting in any case.
The last factor is the US.Are we in line to get some EDA F16s. The situation and timing would be within the next 12-18months. Now a lot of you may not like it but this would be the cheapest solutionand more bl15EDAs would not be that big a risk. It maybe that with the elections over US might be more receptive to our request. So there are options for APAF WHICH MAY BE EQUALLY GOOD OR BETTER.
araz

 

[fatman17]

why would the PAF want to start another major project right away when it has its hands full with the JFT project which has already faced many obstacles and hurdles. having said that the JFT project is doing nicely now. one thing the planners should have considered was a twin-seat trainer (JF-17B) for quick conversion of pilots. i think this has slowed the induction of the JFT squadrons.
the J-10B will be inducted but not before the JFT project reaches maturity stage which would be around 2014.

so relax chill, put a shrimp on the barby and have a cold one

 

[Donatello]

why would the PAF want to start another major project right away when it has its hands full with the JFT project which has already faced many obstacles and hurdles. having said that the JFT project is doing nicely now. one thing the planners should have considered was a twin-seat trainer (JF-17B) for quick conversion of pilots. i think this has slowed the induction of the JFT squadrons.
the J-10B will be inducted but not before the JFT project reaches maturity stage which would be around 2014.

so relax chill, put a shrimp on the barby and have a cold one

Fatman,

We are seriously in need of some heavy duty fighters. JF-17s are good but won't cut it. J-10s offer better avionics, above all better payload ability. We seriously need more fighters with more than 7 hardpoints.

 

[Kompromat]

 

[Kompromat]

Anymore pics?

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

J10B will make the crown jewel in Pakistan Airforce , no doubt simply because its a very beautiful plan and the plane is highly manouverable. This together with flying skills of pilots this would make a great addition

The engine issue is common in all planes just need proper maintenence and care , and the issue is none issue

We cannot jump to Stealth platform with out first solidifying our base , and replacing Mirage platform with J10B

While this would give the Stealth platform time to evolve and get maturity.

J10B + JF17 thunder would give Pakistan a great 1-2 punch with F16C/D for other tactical missions

The Hud display looks wonderful , can't wait for this plane to arrive in Pakistan Airforce

The DARKSHADE j10b look great as well ...these planes are meant to be in black color

 

[Luftwaffe]

BTW, from this angle, it looks like Rafale.

More like Typhoon...

 

[Thorough Pro]

khrrrrrrrrrr..................Khrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr..................... Khrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Yeah you got it right, It's PAF..............sleeping

Let me assure you son, if it ever comes to that, It would be PAF that will attack first..........

No one is getting defensive here. I mentioned all those things because when Pakistani fan boys predict the list of the future for their armed forces, they forget that their opponents are also upgrading. Again if you said that IAF is aggressive force then what it will do is to attack the airbases where you field J-31 by FGFAs. So where is the advantage of having such a expensive fighter if it can be neutralise? On the other hand being cheaper, J-10 can be inducted in large numbers and therefore will survive during first attack and can get airborne and provide some resistance. Nothing will turn into nuclear, it is not as easy as we think.

 

[帅的一匹]

J-10 is starting to really impress. I hope the Pakistani economy starts growing, so we can purchase these and maybe J-31s. If PAF does choose J-31s, i m pretty confident that Chinese will deliver faster than the Russians to India, which will give PAF a huge advantage, even if for a short time.

Faster delivery without back door at cheaper price. I think PAF 100% will go for J10b, a state of art. BTW, PAF pilot will be invited to fly J31 in the future.

Russian engine expert said at Zhuhai air show that the engine on J20 is not F117s, guess what is it? A Indeginous power plant for J20 will certainly tell you something.....

 

[sancho]

Faster delivery without back door at cheaper price. I think PAF 100% will go for J10b, a state of art. BTW, PAF pilot will be invited to fly J31 in the future.

Russian engine expert said at Zhuhai air show that the engine on J20 is not F117s, guess what is it? A Indeginous power plant for J20 will certainly tell you something.....

The fact that China has integrated indigenous engines into fighters alone, doesn't tell us anything about the performance of the engines and that's where the issues so far seems to be. The reports posted in this thread in this regard didn't sound promising and the constant rumors about Su 35 with 117S engines also could give a hint what China want, so lets wait for some reliable sources and specs, to see which engine PAF might take, or which engine will be used on which fighter.

 

[SQ8]

The fact that China has integrated indigenous engines into fighters alone, doesn't tell us anything about the performance of the engines and that's where the issues so far seems to be. The reports posted in this thread in this regard didn't sound promising and the constant rumors about Su 35 with 117S engines also could give a hint what China want, so lets wait for some reliable sources and specs, to see which engine PAF might take, or which engine will be used on which fighter.

Considering that the delay in (and if) procuring the FC-20 is only increasing.. this may result in the PAF simply waiting it out for the Chinese engine. Otherwise there have been informal discussions with Rosoboronexport for the possibility of using a slightly uprated version of the Al-31FN.. which has been cleared for technology export but until an official RFQ is made and the Indian lobby goes to work..nothing can be said. Simple fact is that the Chinese are struggling not with Turbine or Compressor design.. where they actually have had some great progress.. but metallurgy. The problem with reverse engineering(or information extraction focused education) is that you catch up in those areas where information is available.. but lose out where it is not.
Engine design is a widely taught subject and innovations in it are patented and available for understanding.

Composition of materials that make Turbine blades however, is now freely available and closely guarded secrets within corporations. And without it, the Chinese have had to take the tedious road of trail and error in figuring out their alloys.

 

[MastanKhan]

Oscar,

I believe that the chinese got the information from a source and that source was either a plant or that source's info was sabotaged by the manufacturer.

Metal fatigue after 50---100---200 hours is a terrible problem to face by any engineering complex and that of a critical part---it can literally break the back of the program.

 

[Safriz]

Considering that the delay in (and if) procuring the FC-20 is only increasing.. this may result in the PAF simply waiting it out for the Chinese engine. Otherwise there have been informal discussions with Rosoboronexport for the possibility of using a slightly uprated version of the Al-31FN.. which has been cleared for technology export but until an official RFQ is made and the Indian lobby goes to work..nothing can be said. Simple fact is that the Chinese are struggling not with Turbine or Compressor design.. where they actually have had some great progress.. but metallurgy. The problem with reverse engineering(or information extraction focused education) is that you catch up in those areas where information is available.. but lose out where it is not.
Engine design is a widely taught subject and innovations in it are patented and available for understanding.

Composition of materials that make Turbine blades however, is now freely available and closely guarded secrets within corporations. And without it, the Chinese have had to take the tedious road of trail and error in figuring out their alloys.

I would disagree a bit...
The main problem the chinese are facing is 'mass production' and that due to issues with 'quality control'.
Like you said,they can copy or devise an indigenous procedure for creating compressor blades,same for turbine blades...
Compressor blades arent that pronlematic,but turbine blades are.
Companies like rolls royce grow turbine blades from single crystal and so do the chinese,but rolls royce has years if experience doing it,chinese dont have the experience.
The procedure Rolls rotce follows to make their turbine blades s a well guarded secret...as in how they select the crystal to 'seed' the metal alloy,and how the cool down the metal,as all these procedures effect the result.
Chinese procedure isnt mature yet and failures are high..
For example in a batch of 100 turbine blades grown from single crysral,Rolls royce's success rate will be 80% while chinese may not get 50% of the blades pass the quality check...
Both may be using same alloy and same scientific method,but the industrila method is different,as Rolls royce wont tell the chinese the intrucate details.
This low yeild iseffecting mass production,and until the time chinese mature their procedures by hit and try,we may not see mass produced chinese jet engines flying up there.