Chengdu J-10 Multirole Fighter Air Craft News & Discussions

[jian-10]

the plane on the scaffolding is supposedly a used prototype that has been gutted and prepared to be placed on display infront of the Avic building (orange).
The one in the hangar is a model in an aircraft theme park.

 

[Alex_2008]

I hope PAF may get J-10 as soon as possible. China and Pakistan are borthers.

 

[Owais]

I hope PAF may get J-10 as soon as possible. China and Pakistan are borthers.

PAF is looking for a western AESA Radar for FC-20 with possibly a TVC Engine.

 

[araz]

PAF is looking for a western AESA Radar for FC-20 with possibly a TVC Engine.

Owais.
J10 is already quite maneouverable, So what would PAF achieve by adding TVc to it. You must remember the 50 G capability of latest generation 0f WVR missiies vs the 9 G limit that the pilot has. TVC will also add to the workload of maintenance, which may not be something PAF wants.I would certainly agree with AESA radar,but TVC seems a waste of time for J10.What do you think?
WaSalam
Araz

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Owais.
J10 is already quite maneouverable, So what would PAF achieve by adding TVc to it. You must remember the 50 G capability of latest generation 0f WVR missiies vs the 9 G limit that the pilot has. TVC will also add to the workload of maintenance, which may not be something PAF wants.I would certainly agree with AESA radar,but TVC seems a waste of time for J10.What do you think?
WaSalam
Araz

ok fine according to you TVC may not be that important for evading missiles but still some what effective and also it may be very important during dogfights to avoid bad guys at your 6. dont you think?

 

[araz]

ok fine according to you TVC may not be that important for evading missiles but still some what effective and also it may be very important during dogfights to avoid bad guys at your 6. dont you think?

The honest answer my friend is i dont know. I have to say that I know of no single engined plane currently in production(especially with Canards) with TVC.The americans did toy with the idea and gave it up. The problem I have is what good it would do for the plane knowing 5th Gen missiles and for what cost. You are adding cost without a significant benefit.
Perhaps Muradk or Xman can talk on this issue and elaborate PAFs view point.
WaSalam
Araz.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

The honest answer my friend is i dont know. I have to say that I know of no single engined plane currently in production(especially with Canards) with TVC.The americans did toy with the idea and gave it up. The problem I have is what good it would do for the plane knowing 5th Gen missiles and for what cost. You are adding cost without a significant benefit.
Perhaps Muradk or Xman can talk on this issue and elaborate PAFs view point.
WaSalam
Araz.

XZQDwRKHCSQ[/media] - F-16 MATV Extended Video (Rare Footage)

please notice that in this video the MATV F-16 a "single engine" fighter is not far behind in terms of maneuverability when comparing it with any Russian TVC fighters like Su-35 or Mig-35.. this F-16 was a testbed for US super maneuverability fighter "F-22"..
TVC may not be that important for evading 5th gen missile but still is a very important factor in dogfights..

 

[araz]

Iwould add that F16 MATV did not go into production. While there is a role of TVC in twin engined jets Like SU series, F22 etc, I would again repeat that no single engined fighter has gone down this route. Incidentally I have also seen f15s with TVC. Also i do not understand why you would use TVC and canards simultaneously , when you have both of them for increased maneouverability.
waSalam
Araz

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Iwould add that F16 MATV did not go into production. While there is a role of TVC in twin engined jets Like SU series, F22 etc, I would again repeat that no single engined fighter has gone down this route. Incidentally I have also seen f15s with TVC. Also i do not understand why you would use TVC and canards simultaneously , when you have both of them for increased maneouverability.
waSalam
Araz

Well then is it not good that J-10 will be the first fully operational single engine fighter with TVC and canards?? the american F-16 MATV demonstrated that single engine TVC fighters are just as maneuverable as any TVC twin engine fighters..

 

[araz]

Well then is it not good that J-10 will be the first fully operational single engine fighter with TVC and canards?? the american F-16 MATV demonstrated that single engine TVC fighters are just as maneuverable as any TVC twin engine fighters..

23march.
It is not a case of being good or bad. Yes I would love to have all the goodies on the J10. The question is also not one of the realms of possibilities but of what benefit at what cost?Mind you the cost factor should also include the actual cost of the modification and its mainteneance cost.I would again reiterate that The americans inspite of having the technology since the 90s have not put it on a single engined plane.The honest answer my friend is my knowledge has limits which do not allow me to give you the right answer. Personally I find the additional costs unnecessary.I will rest my case here .
Regards
Araz

 

[IceCold]

23march.
It is not a case of being good or bad. Yes I would love to have all the goodies on the J10. The question is also not one of the realms of possibilities but of what benefit at what cost?Mind you the cost factor should also include the actual cost of the modification and its mainteneance cost.I would again reiterate that The americans inspite of having the technology since the 90s have not put it on a single engined plane.The honest answer my friend is my knowledge has limits which do not allow me to give you the right answer. Personally I find the additional costs unnecessary.I will rest my case here .
Regards
Araz

Maybe its because single engine jets are already highly maneuverable and agile because of their light weight they don,t need TVC as compared to twin engine jets which are heavy and to bring it on par with a light weight fighter jet in terms of maneuverability, dog fight and missile avoidance, TVC is added.

 

[araz]

Icecold.
Iam aware of the logic of Putting TVC on twin engined jets. The ongoing debate with 23rd march was regarding the logic of putting TVC on a single engined plane, especially one with canards(J10). I frankly did not see the logic whereas 23rd march insisted it was for avoidance of missiles and useful in dogfights.
waSalam
araz

 

[IceCold]

Icecold.
Iam aware of the logic of Putting TVC on twin engined jets. The ongoing debate with 23rd march was regarding the logic of putting TVC on a single engined plane, especially one with canards(J10). I frankly did not see the logic whereas 23rd march insisted it was for avoidance of missiles and useful in dogfights.
waSalam
araz

Well the intended purpose of my post was that i too agree that there is no need to add TVC on a single engine jet. TVC only adds to maneuverability and as single engine jets such as the F-16 and JF-17( don't know about the J-10) are already highly maneuverable there is no point in adding a thrust vector control. It will only add fuel to the cost and nothing more.

 

[araz]

Well the intended purpose of my post was that i too agree that there is no need to add TVC on a single engine jet. TVC only adds to maneuverability and as single engine jets such as the F-16 and JF-17( don't know about the J-10) are already highly maneuverable there is no point in adding a thrust vector control. It will only add fuel to the cost and nothing more.

Ice cold
Thank you for your post. I thought it was in congruity with my post ,but remained unclear, so i elaborated . I am glad we are in agreement that this venture is a waste of time.
WaSalam
Araz

 

[Owais]

but I have a question that are single jets as maneuverable as TVC Jets??? I mean what will happen if an MKI get into close combat with our F-16 or JF-17??