Chasing the Dragon

[Chinese-Dragon]

From what I have learnt, obsession with white skin is prevalent throughout Asia. In most of the East Asian countries, darker skin equals lower social status. As far as racism is concerned, people are inherently racist unless they are taught not to be so.

In East Asia that only applies to women, not to men. And it has nothing to do with race.

If you visit any of the major cities in East Asia, you'll see that tanning has become a sign of prestige. Like in the West, it shows that someone is wealthy enough to take regular vacations.

Check out all the major Chinese movie stars. Men - tanned, women - pale.

Yes, possible.

Possible?

The scientific consensus is that humans originated in East Africa, and spread outwards from there.

Which means that East Asians are genetically the furthest away from white Europeans, except maybe Native Americans.

Just look at the facial features instead of the skin colour, and this becomes obvious. Arabs for example have very facial features that are very similar to white Europeans, same with those from the northern parts of South Asia.

 

[Vinod2070]

In East Asia that only applies to women, not to men. And it has nothing to do with race.

If you visit any of the major cities in East Asia, you'll see that tanning has become a sign of prestige. Like in the West, it shows that someone is wealthy enough to take regular vacations.

Check out all the major Chinese movie stars. Men - tanned, women - pale.

And that makes it better?

And in line with what you claimed earlier?

It's only in South Asia that people aspire to be white based on skin colour, as your famous skin cream for men advertisements have shown.

Possible?

The scientific consensus is that humans originated in East Africa, and spread outwards from there.

Which means that East Asians are genetically the most distant from white Europeans, except maybe Native Americans.

Just look at the facial features instead of the skin colour, and this becomes obvious. Arabs for example have very facial features that are very similar to white Europeans, same with those from the northern parts of South Asia.

East Asians are completely different.

"Possible" meant that I didn't deny it.

Yes, East Asians are a different racial group and more distant from Europeans and even other Asians.

 

[Developereo]

From what I have learnt, obsession with white skin is prevalent throughout Asia.

Preference for lighter skin seems universal across the globe. One reason I heard is that people of almost all races tend to have lighter skin in youth, so lighter skin is associated with youth.

Preference for youth (especially younger females) is hardwired biologically because younger females have healthier babies.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

And that makes it better?

And in line with what you claimed earlier?

If Zhang Ziyi is trying to be a white European, then she is not doing a good job of it.

Like I said before, if that was the goal, then she would be going for a nose-job and a hair dye. Nothing can be done about the shape of eyes.

The skin colour is not the issue, she is already paler than most Europeans I've seen. Race is not just about skin colour, otherwise she would be white European and Greeks would not.

Yes, East Asians are a different racial group and more distant from Europeans and even other Asians.

Check the halogroups as well.

If a North Indian or a Pakistani had pale skin (as many do), they would be able to pass as a white person. I have seen many such pictures on this forum.

But for East Asians, no matter how pale our skin, we would never be able to "pass" as whites. Facial features matter more than skin colour in this situation.

 

[Vinod2070]

If Zhang Ziyi is trying to be a white European, then she is not doing a good job of it.

Like I said before, if that was the goal, then she would be going for a nose-job and a hair dye. Nothing can be done about the shape of eyes.

The skin colour is not the issue, she is already paler than most Europeans I've seen. Race is not just about skin colour, otherwise she would be white European and Greeks would not.

You are taking it in a different direction now.

No argument over this. Many Asians are paler than many Europeans and Americans.

You made some claims about "South Asian" preference for skin color. Those claims are clearly false.

Check the halogroups as well.

If a North Indian or a Pakistani had pale skin (as many do), they would be able to pass as a white person. I have seen many such pictures on this forum.

But for East Asians, no matter how pale our skin, we would never be able to "pass" as whites. Facial features matter more than skin colour in this situation.

Yes. Even I have personally interacted with some "white" persons in US and they later turned out to be Indians!

We ended up speaking in Hindi!

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Here is a picture to further illustrate my point. No matter how pale, an East Asian cannot pass for a white European.

images.ados.fr/stars-people/photo/hd/6746820674/zhang-zi-lin/z46957479-2458897059.jpg

Yes. Even I have personally interacted with some "white" persons in US and they later turned out to be Indians!

We ended up speaking in Hindi!

I'm not surprised, some of the movie stars in Bollywood look almost entirely European.

Also, I met a Lebanese girl once, and for a long time I just couldn't accept that she was not a white European. The only thing that could have given it away was the nose.

 

[Vinod2070]

Skin color is just dependent on the amount of the melanin pigment.

Now, I have nothing to believe that more or less amount of this pigment in one's skin has any impact on that person's capability in any area (except perhaps his capacity to make Vitamin D in the sunlight).

For the longest time, being European or lighter in skin tone had no connotations of superiority. It became prevalent only during the last few centuries of colonialism.

With the rise of Asia (and Africa), this fad will die its natural death.

Europeans will again be the backwater of the world they always were.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

For the longest time, being European or lighter in skin tone had no connotations of superiority. It became prevalent only during the last few centuries of colonialism.

With the rise of Asia (and Africa), this fad will die its natural death.

Absolutely.

It's already dying out. Like I said, being tanned is now seen as a sign of prestige and wealth in the developed world.

 

[marshall]

Absolutely it is legitimate and you debunked nothing. The original issue was racism in China, not about whether or not China followed the exact European model of race based slavery or not. Non-race based slavery in the various European societies preceded the race based one, so if China was willing to have a class based institutionalized slavery system, there is nothing to prevent China from having a race based one.

Yet again, you continue to ignore your own words and try to subtly change the context of what you said to avoid your failure. lol Here is the same previous quote again for your understanding, hopefully it will penetrate this time, but I doubt it...

Need I remind you of your latest Epic Fail where you performed a frantic online search for Chinese slavery and posted nonsense about Chinese race-based slavery against the Booi Aha when most of the Booi Aha slaves were ethnic Han Chinese enslaved by ethnic Manchus. You are absolutely ridiculous.

To translate, it means the Booi Aha example was MANCHU perpetrated slavery against mostly HAN and HUI Chinese. This happened before the Manchus became integrated into mainstream Chinese society during China's feudal era centuries ago. You are attributing some sort of xenophobic latent racist tendencies to present-day China because of the war booty feudalistic practice by an ethnic minority. This has absolutely zero applicability to present-day China, ZERO. Face palm for you. LOL

Right...So you ARE saying that 20-something million people know each other intimately.

What are you on? The point is that Lou Jing does NOT KNOW EVERYBODY in Shanghai! The fact that she lived in Shanghai, China's largest city with 23 million people of which 9 million are floating population from all other parts of China coupled with her own admission that she NEVER experienced racism until she was 20 years old is absolute proof that racism is a minor issue in China. You then argued that was because in Shanghai she was surrounded by her familiars who would know here as a person and see through her bi-racial characteristics. I countered that she like all Human Beings are not sheltered within the confines of her little world with no contact with anybody outside her personal circle. You specifically quoted various social scientists research that limited exposure to distinct ethnic groups create xenophobia and racism. I pointed out that it is not possible for any normal Human Being to be isolated from everybody but their familiars. Let me spell it out for you...she lives in Shanghai and as a normal Human Being she has to come into contact with people outside her social circle such as people at stores, work, school, teachers, etc, etc, etc, etc. Shouldn't such limited exposure to all people outside her social circle have caused xenophobia and racism towards here after all those years? I mean 20 years, that's a real long time! This is maybe the 5th time you're harping on this specific issue. EPIC FAIL times 5! LOL

Please spare everyone this feeble argument that the Chinese people is somehow morally superior to the rest. First it was high IQ, now it is high morals.

Well, Chinese ARE morally superior to most Americans, which isn't hard since almost the whole world is. It isn't hard to be morally superior when compared against hypocrites whose arguments are generally based around their own self-perpetuating propaganda that is used to recruit American idealists as USEFUL IDIOTs. The normal pattern of American society is demonization of targets to rile yourselves up into a xenophobic ideological stupor. Iraq War anybody? Weapons of mass destruction? Gulf of Tonkin? Shah of Iran? Iran Contra? Agent Orange? etc...etc...etc...etc... I don't blame Americans, it is the fault of your Machiavellian government who have willfully molded your people into a largely ignorant, warmongering population.

As if infidelity and non-marital sexual relationship does not exist in China. Or how about Mao's own sexual tastes that allegedly goes to very young girls. Why the Chinese people made no outrage about this? Ah...Because tanks would be rolling over their heads. If Lou Jing's mother's lover was white, this would not have happened.

Lou Jing became a sensation because Chinese/Black mixes who are Chinese speaking is extremely rare in China. The TV producers wanted to use her uniqueness to raise their TV ratings. Her initial appearances caused little fanfare. It was only AFTER it was learned that her mother cheated on her Chinese husband and that they divorced when the father obviously realized his wife cheated on her because their baby girl was a half black baby that the Lou Jing story exploded. The animosity began with the cheating mother and it spread to the illegitimate birth of Lou Jing who was exploited to raise their TV ratings. That's how this all began, something you won't find from your Internet searches because you like all typical American moral snobs are quick to judge and quick to demonize. You have a shallow understanding of this specific incident and the more you dive into it, the worse you look.

You mean like this one...

Racism in China

What did I say before...That sociologists who studied racial/ethnic issues concluded that infrequent exposure and irregular contacts with people of different racial/ethnic origins actually FOSTER xenophobia and racism. The lack of opportunities to put these foreigners in their 'proper' places in societal strata does not negate this propensity towards xenophobia and racism BECAUSE of the lack of contacts.

Again, you are talking about the West European history of slavery and colonialism. Interesting how that history is unique in the Human experience but NOT in any other society, including not in OTHER European societies. In the case of China, China has been on the receiving end of all sorts of ethnic groups from different distinct ethnic groups for millenia and always provided shelter to them and given enough time eventually absorbed them into Chinese society. Your original thesis was some theory that China will attack or invade other countries because it sees itself as "superior"? You obviously have a superficial understanding of Chinese history and are foisting an ethnocentric racist history of Western Europe to the entire world. Like I said before, I recognize your sort of language and it is straight out of the STORMFRONT handbook on how to start a race war.

You mean there are no state directed anti-Western propaganda out of China? Considering how quickly the Chinese government can organize any anti-Japanese mass protests, it is no stretch of the imagination that the same readiness can be for the West. For the Chinese boys here, ANY criticisms of China MUST be construed as racially motivated.

Are you actually comparing mass anti-Chinese demonization against a Chinese flash mob demonstration against Japanese aggression? The so-called state directed protests are genuine expressions of Chinese nationalism. The organization and direction of these protests is a mystery but your media as always takes the demonization angle and immediately assume it to be state directed. If this were any other ethnic group, your discriminatory media would simply call it a "Flash Mob", but if it's Chinese and NOT some sort of government protest, it's Chinese propaganda. Your population has been conditioned with the language of demonization and blaming others for their problems.

This is absurd. Between a white guy and a Chinese who works in the same defense related project, it would be foolish for PRC agents to focus on the white guy. In other words, it is common sense to exploit ANY possible avenue to gain intelligence and if race is a possibility -- exploit that potential weakness. And if the enemy uses race in its profiling of potential intelligence sources, it is equally common sense to racial profiling in counter-intelligence. You think China does not know this whenever there are clusters of foreigners in-country?

That would make sense if there were reasonable proof. They did not have "reasonable" proof, that's why the investigations lasted so long. They couldn't establish proof, only an assumed intent because these were ethnic Chinese. You can explain racial profiling any way you wish but it is still discrimination read racism.

Wrong. The joke is on you, pal.

When I brought on W.H. Lee's book and cited a passage that is not in any public reviews, that should have been a red flag for you to either concede gross ignorance of the subject and/or drop it entirely.

Peter Lee's specialty was...

Business | China's Subtle Spy System: A Case Study -- Probe Of Physicist Took Years | Seattle Times Newspaper

...About simulations of nuclear explosions, which leads to development of nuclear weapons designs that could potentially bypass the need for actual nuclear test detonations.

Ehh Wrong. This is actually public knowledge and was part of the main argument during trial. It is not "secret" information sir, nor was the so-called "secrets" much of a secret, that Peter Lee talked about with the Chinese. That is the whole reason why he was given a slap on the wrist despite the high profile of the case and the whole media scaremongering about so-called national security being compromised by a traitorous Chinese. Peter Lee did NOT realize the legal ramifications of what he was doing because he considered the material would have an immaterial impact on the Chinese defense posture, which is a military fact, it was unimportant militarily to China. China's nuclear technology at that time was well known to be ALREADY beyond what Peter Lee divulged. That is why that classified material was about to be declassified anyways because it was already becoming common knowledge among the scientific community. The combination of Peter Lee's intentions and the nature of the information lead to him getting a slap on the wrist, 1 year sentence in a half-way house. That's a pretty sad sentence for what people like you describe as a humongous spy scandal. Yet another fail! lol

Here is what Wen Ho Lee said about his work...

Amazon.com: My Country Versus Me: The First-Hand Account By the Los Alamos Scientist Who Was Falsely Accused of Being a Spy (9780786868032): Wen Ho Lee: Books
...
...
P. Lee's and H.W. Lee's works definitely overlapped and would certainly correlate each other, like blind testings, when presented to Chinese nuclear experts for analysis. They would have better odds knowing if their intelligence gathering has ...
...
Epic fail. Given your gross ignorance on the matter, you should be embarrassed for continuing on this subject.

Ehh Wrong. The cases are not comparable because the Peter Lee prosecution revolved around lectures with Chinese nuclear scientists whereas the Wen Ho Lee prosecution revolved around "assumed" illegal transfer of data from work laptops he took home to do work. The Coup de grâce is that more than 10 of Wen Ho Lee's colleagues at the same facility were found to be taking their work laptops home to do work and none of them were charged. Wen Ho Lee was ONLY charged because he is an ethnic Chinese, not because there were "reasonable" grounds as you are trying to insinuate. The Wen Ho Lee case is an example of out-and-out racism. Of course you would defend this sort of behavior, I'm sure you were in favor of the PATRIOT ACT as well.

Wrong. P. Lee admitted that he KNOWINGLY give the PRC agents classified information about his work. In Jun 1997, he admitted that he originally lied about it to the FBI and his employer, TRW. There was nothing inadvertent about what he did. In Aug 1997, in another interrogation, he admitted he lied about his unauthorized and undeclared travel to China. The PRC agents tugged at his racial and nationalist heart strings and it worked.

You are twisting the details. lol The exact details are, he initially gave lectures, including said information, because it was well known that this was common knowledge in his field by that time. That is the reason the information was known to be soon declassified. AFTER he gave his lecture, he realized he shouldn't have done that anyways despite the unimportance of the information. That is the argument of the defence because he really thought it was no big deal, thus NOT aware. Do you get it now? The information was useless to China. Peter Lee knew it was useless to China. The US government and military knew it was useless to China, that's why it was about to be declassified. The case eventually devolved into an argument about the strict lettering of the law and less about national security. The media though, egged on by your state department, used this case as an excuse to demonize China/Chinese as disloyal traitors. It was and is obvious Peter Lee is not a traitor considering the context of what happened. Need I remind you again of his 1 year sentence in a half-way house. Pretty pitiful sentence for a traitor giving nuclear secrets. FAIL! LOL

What a joke. If mishandling information is seriously enforced, investigated, and punished, EVERYONE IN THE WORLD would be guilty and punished. If you investigate yourself hard enough, you WILL find instances in the past and present where you should have handled the security of financial matters more better. In W.H. Lee's case, it was not about his mishandling of classified information but about his alleged connections to PRC agents and transfer of those classified information. You are confused that what he pled guilty to versus what were the original intentions for investigating him in the first place. And yes, given the fact that the FBI already had P. Lee under wraps it was appropriate to zero in on what would be the PRC's most favorable target. The US government failed to prove its case and W.H. Lee effectively received a Presidential pardon.

No confusion, it was racial discrimination that highlighted the Wen Ho Lee case and it ended with racial discrimination where people like you continue to excuse and support such government racial discrimination. Congratulations Mr. STORMFRONT.

Really?

Guilty by Association - By Rachel Beitarie | Foreign Policy

Like I said...

Your insinuation that innocent family members and relatives are jailed along with sentenced criminals is an outright lie. Such demonization is expected though from the likes of your xenophobic ideologically driven society.

This whole article is about family members supporting through thick and thin their criminal relatives. That's a good quality of Chinese families, kudos to the Chinese! You said Chinese family members are jailed along with their criminal relatives. If the relatives go further and aid and abet the illegal activities of their criminal family members, then they are no longer innocent. As I said....

"Your insinuation that innocent family members and relatives are jailed along with sentenced criminals is an outright lie."

And here we are talking about nuclear weapons secrets. If this happened in China, both Lees would have been executed and probably their families as well to serve as examples for other scientists.

No proof of this just as there was no proof for Wen Ho Lee, except maybe from Epoch Times. Keep it up Mr. STORMFRONT.

All debunked here. Look them up.

Excuse me? You mean the 9/11 conspiracy theories that have tens of millions including thousands of structural engineers, demolition experts, etc, etc...all debunked on PDF? LOL

 

[Irfan Baloch]

ahh that phrase brings back the memories,
not that I chased the dragon but stopped at the serpent if you will..

by the way chasing the dragon actually means when you heat up morphine or any other intoxiacting hard substance like Heroine on a spoon and then inhale it or inject it into your blood stream.


VCheng, you disappointed me but then again its not 1970s no more

 

[VCheng]

ahh that phrase brings back the memories,
not that I chased the dragon but stopped at the serpent if you will..

by the way chasing the dragon actually means when you heat up morphine or any other intoxiacting hard substance like Heroine on a spoon and then inhale it or inject it into your blood stream.


VCheng, you disappointed me but then again its not 1970s no more

How so IB?

Join the club, I am a failure in everything so far and all those around me are deeply disappointed.

 

[VCheng]

This article may be relevant to the present discussion:

from: India

Not just rubies and polyester shirts
Is India becoming an export powerhouse?

Oct 8th 2011 | MUMBAI | from the print edition

It is common to posit that India’s economy is more self-contained than China’s. Lately the facts have got in the way. In dollar terms China still sells five times more than India, but relative to output, exports of goods and services from India have been chugging up while those from China have fallen. Measured this way the two countries are converging.

View attachment 9053


This runs so counter to gut instinct— India is meant to be hopeless at making things—that many mutter about unreliable data. Some reckon firms are over-invoicing for exports to ship black money back into the country. But Sajjid Chinoy of JPMorgan Chase has tallied the official figures against India’s trade partners’ numbers and data on port traffic. He says the conspiracy theories are flimsy.

Two shifts are happening. First, India no longer only sells simple things such as jewels. A decade ago engineering and petrochemicals were 14% of goods exports; now they are 42%, says Rohini Malkani of Citigroup. Second, the share of goods exported to slothful America and Europe has dropped from a half to a third. India is selling more complex products to a wider and perkier group of trade partners. Small firms are doing a lot of the work, says T.C.A. Ranganathan of Export-Import Bank of India.

Could India become a “surplus” country like China? The government hopes so, having set as one of its targets—a typical mix of technocratic forecast and armchair bombast—that goods exports will hit $500 billion in three years’ time, double last year’s level. Despite the recent drop in the rupee, most economists are less brave: goods-export growth rates are expected to slow from some 50% in the past two quarters to 20% for the full year, thanks in part to a global slowdown. As for services, which are a third of the overall export basket, they are dominated by software, sold mainly to America and Europe, and may wilt.

Even if exports remain on fire, India likes spending the proceeds on imports more than China does. The result is a modest but stubborn current-account deficit. Relying on capital flows to fund that is not always comfortable. But no one in India wants to fall into China’s trap of giant surpluses that are recycled as loans to weak Western governments.

from the print edition | Finance and economics

 

[Shinigami]

This article may be relevant to the present discussion:

from: India

Not just rubies and polyester shirts


Is India becoming an export powerhouse?



Oct 8th 2011 | MUMBAI | from the print edition

It is common to posit that India’s economy is more self-contained than China’s. Lately the facts have got in the way. In dollar terms China still sells five times more than India, but relative to output, exports of goods and services from India have been chugging up while those from China have fallen. Measured this way the two countries are converging.

View attachment 9053


This runs so counter to gut instinct— India is meant to be hopeless at making things—that many mutter about unreliable data. Some reckon firms are over-invoicing for exports to ship black money back into the country. But Sajjid Chinoy of JPMorgan Chase has tallied the official figures against India’s trade partners’ numbers and data on port traffic. He says the conspiracy theories are flimsy.

Two shifts are happening. First, India no longer only sells simple things such as jewels. A decade ago engineering and petrochemicals were 14% of goods exports; now they are 42%, says Rohini Malkani of Citigroup. Second, the share of goods exported to slothful America and Europe has dropped from a half to a third. India is selling more complex products to a wider and perkier group of trade partners. Small firms are doing a lot of the work, says T.C.A. Ranganathan of Export-Import Bank of India.

Could India become a “surplus” country like China? The government hopes so, having set as one of its targets—a typical mix of technocratic forecast and armchair bombast—that goods exports will hit $500 billion in three years’ time, double last year’s level. Despite the recent drop in the rupee, most economists are less brave: goods-export growth rates are expected to slow from some 50% in the past two quarters to 20% for the full year, thanks in part to a global slowdown. As for services, which are a third of the overall export basket, they are dominated by software, sold mainly to America and Europe, and may wilt.

Even if exports remain on fire, India likes spending the proceeds on imports more than China does. The result is a modest but stubborn current-account deficit. Relying on capital flows to fund that is not always comfortable. But no one in India wants to fall into China’s trap of giant surpluses that are recycled as loans to weak Western governments.

from the print edition | Finance and economics

already posted

 

[Obambam]

Not at all. Just better than your China, which you do not have the courage to live in?

Not at all, in fact most of my family is there and I do often go back and stay, I even sport the Chinese flag. Unlike you who is too ashamed of your country of origin to even think that you used to be a citizen there. I accept that your America is "just" better than China, given the head start in its modernization and exposure to the rest of the world, it only goes to show how slow America actually modernized or how much it declined.

We are not comparing the past but the present, of which the behaviors of the Chinese boys here are pretty much the Chinese version of the KKK and the Russian neo-Nazis so may be today's China is heading to be like the 19th century America.

It makes good comparisons to see how racism persist to exists in your society and more specifically in America. It existed more than 200 years and it is still lingering in your society. Compared to China who've only exposed itself to the world roughly two decades ago. Now take into consideration that Chinese never brutally targeted foreign nationals the way these Neo Nazis and KKK did and that we did not enforce racist mafia state laws or openly enslaved foreigners. Our profile suddenly becomes solid gold.
It further makes us wonder why Chinese prefers conducting businesses abroad meanwhile the west still prefers to enter into conflicts and militarily dictating countries with its 'nose pointing in the air bigotry'.

 

[marshall]

In East Asia that only applies to women, not to men. And it has nothing to do with race.

If you visit any of the major cities in East Asia, you'll see that tanning has become a sign of prestige. Like in the West, it shows that someone is wealthy enough to take regular vacations.

Check out all the major Chinese movie stars. Men - tanned, women - pale.



Possible?

The scientific consensus is that humans originated in East Africa, and spread outwards from there.

Which means that East Asians are genetically the furthest away from white Europeans, except maybe Native Americans.

Just look at the facial features instead of the skin colour, and this becomes obvious. Arabs for example have very facial features that are very similar to white Europeans, same with those from the northern parts of South Asia.

The picture is more complicated than this in the scientific community. My understanding is that there was a small minority supporting the Multi-Regional Theory everywhere in the world except in the Far East where this has always been the predominant opinion. When genetic testing began in earnest, the East African migration theory gained huge traction but only initially. In the last 5 years, the picture has changed dramatically because suspicions of intermingling of different Human species has now been proven. In other words, the different non-African populations were never "species" but "races" which simply absorbed African genes. The debate now is on the influence of how much African genes spread out from East Africa and has been further muddled with the recent discovery that there was widespread Neanderthal co-mingling with all the world's Human populations except to sub-Saharan Africans. This debate has become very sensitive to say the least. As far as Europeans are concerned, it has been genetically proven that their closest racial match are Africans.