Charleston church shooting: Who is Dylann Roof?

[Dubious]

@chauvunist @syedali73

Chill you 2....this isnt about Pakistan keep to the thread topic....

 

[chauvunist]

And I do agree with you that you do not give a flying whatever even though your people are suffering for hundreds of years, millions got killed in Afghan war, tens of thousands in the civil war, but you are not willing to revisit your attitude, instead hell bent on blaming everyone else for your suffering.

View attachment 231184

Oh come do we need certification from someone like you,hell no...we are playing a much greater role in this country compared to you or anybody concerned like we did in the previous centuries and the world respect us for what we are,yes we do not bend over like you when someone more vigorous is confronted..

@chauvunist @syedali73

Chill you 2....this isnt about Pakistan keep to the thread topic....

It was his majesty that brought his usual Pashtun-hatred to this otherwise not-related thread so i just merely replied..

 

[Dubious]

It was his majesty that brought his usual Pashtun-hatred to this otherwise not-related thread so i just merely replied..

I know and I ignored it by walking out of the thread.....I have seen too much of it

Hatred for 1 group or the other...

 

[syedali73]

But you didn't support when Rangers raided the terrorist hideouts including nine-zero and other strongholds of MQM and instead you blamed the LeA for being biased and targetting specific community,and i wonder if it's not support then what else you call it...And yeah i don't have to recall you your dozens of racially motivated posts targeted specifically at a specific ethnicity...

What is this with 'you'? What you want from me? I go and join the Rangers in their operation? When and where did I condemn Rangers action against criminals? Show me. There have been no racially motivated posts but I cannot re-write or distort history to appease you.

1. Was Afghanistan not the only country that apposed Pakistan in the United Nations?
2. Was Bacha Khan not called 'Sarhadi Gandhi' and he vehemently opposed Quid-e-Azam and creation of Pakistan?
3. Did Dr. Khan Saheb (Bachas brother) not refuse to attend Pakistan's independence ceremony and refused to salute Pakistani flag?
4. Did Bacha Khan not inisited on getting buried in Afghanistan while all his life he lived, earned, did politics, raised kids in Pakistan?
5. Did Afghanistan not oppose Durand's line and continued to claim Pakistan as part of Afghanistan?
6. Do FATA people not primarily deal in drug and weapon smuggling? Do they not provide shelter to criminals in 'ilaqa ghair'?
7. Is that not true that FATA people always opposed the establishment of GoP writ in their areas?
8. Is that not true that FATA people did not allow Pakistani judiciary and insisted upon settling issues through primitive Jarga system?
9. Is this not true that FATA harbored foreigners and terrorist in their lands?
10. Is this not true that people abducted for ransom purposes have always been kept in remote areas of FATA and tribals never cooperated with law enforcement agencies?
11. Did ANP not sabotage Kala Bagh dam?
12. Are they not threatening to politicize CPAK?

I know and I ignored it by walking out of the thread.....I have seen too much of it

Hatred for 1 group or the other...

Please try to see things in correct perspective and avoid from giving off sweeping statements.

 

[Dubious]

Please try to see things in correct perspective and avoid from giving off sweeping statements.

I did see your post and I left the thread....There is no off sweeping statement about that...

I said I see hatred for 1 group or another...I never said for/ from ONLY 1 GROUP!

In other words I politely asked the brother to ignore it and leave the thread

 

[chauvunist]

I know and I ignored it by walking out of the thread.....I have seen too much of it

Hatred for 1 group or the other...

i have seen his racial rantings in many threads and i ignored it out of respect for his other post

What is this with 'you'? What you want from me? I go and join the Rangers in their operation? When and where did I condemn Rangers action against criminals? Show me. There have been no racially motivated posts but I cannot re-write or distort history to appease you.

1. Was Afghanistan not the only country that apposed Pakistan in the United Nations?
2. Was Bacha Khan not called 'Sarhadi Gandhi' and he vehemently opposed Quid-e-Azam and creation of Pakistan?
3. Did Dr. Khan Saheb (Bachas brother) not refuse to attend Pakistan's independence ceremony and refused to salute Pakistani flag?
4. Did Bacha Khan not inisited on getting buried in Afghanistan while all his life he lived, earned, did politics, raised kids in Pakistan?
5. Did Afghanistan not oppose Durand's line and continued to claim Pakistan as part of Afghanistan?
6. Do FATA people not primarily deal in drug and weapon smuggling? Do they not provide shelter to criminals in 'ilaqa ghair'?
7. Is that not true that FATA people always opposed the establishment of GoP writ in their areas?
8. Is that not true that FATA people did not allow Pakistani judiciary and insisted upon settling issues through primitive Jarga system?
9. Is this not true that FATA harbored foreigners and terrorist in their lands?
10. Is this not true that people abducted for ransom purposes have always been kept in remote areas of FATA and tribals never cooperated with law enforcement agencies?

Why are comparing Afghani's with Pashtun's,oh God you are awfully ill informed,neither bacha khan or his sons represent Pashtuns as was proved by the referendum ..In fact was it not these FATA Pashtuns who repelled Afghanistan's Army attack on Pakistan on their own..Was it not these Pashtuns who took Half Kashmir from India in 1948..tell who else in this country have achieved this much for this country..
Tell me these agwa barae tawan doesn't happen in Karachi or elsewhere in the country ,wonder FATA in Hundreds of miles from there...
Was it not the reponsibility of Govt to check the fighters from Afghanistan and tora bora after US attack???

 

[syedali73]

Was it not the reponsibility of Govt to check the fighters from Afghanistan and tora bora after US attack???

How the government could do anything when she was not allowed into FATA by the tribals?

 

[chauvunist]

How the government could do anything when she was not allowed into FATA by the tribals?

And you cherry-picked only this point after the rebuttal of your other non senical claims???

FC and Levies are regularly deployed there in case you didn't know and there is strong system run by Political agents there..

 

[syedali73]

And you cherry-picked only this point after the rebuttal of your other non senical claims???

FC and Levies are regularly deployed there in case you didn't know and there is strong system run by Political agents there..

I cherry picked this point because this point is the pivotal reason behind all ills. If FATA people had integrated into Pakistan from very beginning, allowed the government writ and institutions, they would have Schools, Colleges, Universities, the society would have been to a whole different level than where it is today. Isolation and much prized 'independence' has not given them much except terrorism.

FC and levies do nothing rather collude with locals for they are recruited from local tribes. Perhaps you are not aware that levies is appointed on the recommendation of the tribal elders.

 

[chauvunist]

I cherry picked this point because this point is the pivotal reason of all ills. If FATA people had integrated into Pakistan from very beginning, allowed the government writ and institutions, they would have Schools, Colleges, Universities, the society would have been to a whole different level than it is today. Isolation has not given them much except terrorism.

FC and levies do nothing rather collude with locals for they are recruited from local tribes. Perhaps you are not aware that levies is appointed on the recommendation of the tribal elders.

Indeed they should have but would that have made them perfect citizens??

The most educated ethnicity as claimed by many in Karachi is involved in most of the anti-social and anti-state activities,wonder why would most educated people do that..indeed they turned one of the most dynamic city to one of the most criminal city...There is no porous border there and neither these vices began after foreign invasions in the vicinity,i guess only their mentality and social fabrication has to be blamed...But then again its easy to make sweeping statements..

 

[syedali73]

Indeed they should have but would that have made them perfect citizens??

The most educated ethnicity as claimed by many in Karachi is involved in most of the anti-social and anti-state activities,wonder why would most educated people do that..indeed they turned one of the most dynamic city to one of the most criminal city...There is no porous border there and neither these vices began after foreign invasions in the vicinity,i guess only their mentality and social fabrication has to be blamed...But then again its easy to make sweeping statements..

There are no perfect citizens, nowhere in the world, it is enforcement of law that makes one behave. Law enforcement has gradually vanished from Pakistanis cities (it did exist once) and the result is in front of you. However, unlike rest of Pakistan that at-least started out with law enforcement, FATA never had any writ of the government, they never allowed it.

Please do not put all the blame on one ethnicity that is 50% of the total population of Karachi. All sorts of ethnicities call Karachi their home, not to mention Afghan, Indian, Bangladeshi, Burmese refugees, and have fair share in turning the city into a shit hole.

I am trying to understand your point, you also try to see where I am coming from. You are talking to me as if I am Karachite and MQMer whereas I have hardly lived there for one or two years, a time when I was teaching in Aga Khan university, and left to States afterwards.

 

[gambit]

well I never enter the white non white discussion my argument is about immigrant non immigrant and according to some studies 25% of USA scientific force are the people who borne outside USA intresting part is 49% of mid level scientific force in USA are foreign born people.
http://www.psmag.com/nature-and-technology/immigrants-make-american-science-great-75166

and 25.3% of USA companies are founded by let say not Americans
Skilled, Educated Immigrants Contribute Significantly to U.S. Economy | Duke Today

now you answer me what percentage of American are foreign born people?

But you are making this a white vs non-white argument.

The US is an immigrant country and when a person is a US citizen, he/she is an American regardless of origin of birth. So what if some companies are created by immigrants ? What does that say about their countries of birth when these people need to come to the US to prosper ? You think those figures are meant to promote some forms of subtle racism, that somehow immigrants are smarter than white Americans ?

Why do you people so obsessed with who is white and non-whites in the US ? Are you jealous and pissed off that people want to leave your countries to come to the US to spend a few yrs to learn and to get rich ?

 

[jhungary]

People started to get ga-ga on the issue which not even related, and this thread as expected, becoming an American bashing threads as the OP intended.

Point 1. - Can a mentally-ill person be a terrorist?

Yes it can, and it maybe amaze to someone (Especially those who keen on bashing American) most terrorist in history are suffering from some kind of mental illness during his/her life or immediately before the attack.

The primary mental illness led to carrying out terrorist attack is psychosis, which like the name suggested, led to psychotic behaviour, where the Schizophrenia followed closely to second place.

Research also show mentally challenged people are more susceptible to carry out terrorist attack by orders of others entity.

That said, not all terrorist are mentally ill.

The Line Between Terrorism and Mental Illness - The New Yorker

Point 2. - Whites are never called terrorist?

No, in fact, it's quite the opposite, during the 120 or so terrorist attack in the US from 1775 to 2015, only about 30% (39 attacks) are carry out by non-white, where in 2010-2015... (Not really any ppint talking about 1770 or 1870s right? How many noon-white back then?)

2010 Ausstin Suicide Attacks - White, IRS/Anti-government
2010 Pentagon shooting - White - Anarchist/Anti-Government
2010 Discoveries hostage crisis - Asian (Korean-Japanese) Motive not known
2012 Wisconsin Sikh temple shooting - White, white supremacy group
2013 Boston Marathon bombing - White, Extremist Islamic Political group
2013 ricin letters - Unknown Prep, unknown motive
2013 Los Angeles International Airport shooting - White, Anti-Government (TSA)
2014 Overland Park Jewish Community Center shooting - White, Neo-Nazi, White Supremacy
2014 Las Vegas shootings - White, Anti-Government (Police)
2014 Queens hatchet attack - White, Converted Muslim Extremist
2014 Austin Mexican consulate attack - White, white supremacy
2014 Sony Cyber Attack - Asian (North Korean) Governmental Attack
2014 New York City Police Attack - Black, Muslim/Revenge Attack
2015 Curtis Culwell Center attack - 2 White and 1 Mid-Eastern Muslim/ISIS Related
2015 Charleston Shooting - White, White Supremacy Group

Of the 15 attack made during 2010-2015, 4 are Muslim related, while of the 4 one attacked by a single muslim African American assailant, the other 3 is of mix of Whites and middle eastern, while the other 11 attack followed White Supremacy and Anti-Government group.

Of all the attacks, terrorist attack in the US can be separated into these separate category, ranked by descending orders by the frequency happened during the history of the United States

1. White supremacy (KKK, Neo-Nazi, Aryan Nation type)
2. Anti-Government (Anti-Federacy, Confederacy, Anti-Authority)
3. Jewish Extremism
4. Islamic Extremism
5. Christian Extremism
6. Nationalism (Freedom Fighters from Guam, Puerto Rico, formerly Cuba)
7. Leftist Militant
8. Black Militant
9. Antichrist
10. Others

Terrorism in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bear in mind, Black militancy does not happened prior to the 50s and peak at 60s, 70s and 80s while Islamic Extremist peak at 90s and 00s

Point 3. All Mass killing are Terrorist Attack?

No, read my post 45 on page 3 for the US government definition of terrorism.

mass murder may or may not be called terrorist attack, nor can a terrorist attack have to have any casualty at all.
I am okay if you lot want to bash American Government or Policy, I did that myself sometime, but at least bash with actual point and know you stuff before you bash, otherwise you are just losing your own creditability while you go

 

[Adecypher]

My friend, while I appreciate your concerns regarding drone attacks and complications and tragedies resulting from those but there have not been as many drone attacks and whenever possible, collateral damage was kept to a minimum.

Syed Bhai first of all thanks for understanding my sensitivities on this matter as far as the collateral damage is concerned, some not all of the western media outlets peddles this “keeping collateral damage at the minimum BS” in reality the innocent casualties are more than what usually quoted when legitimizing drone strikes. Below is the statistics from various sources:

US drone strikes: reported deaths and injuries
Source: URL: http://www.smh.com.au/world/drone-strikes-counterproductive-says-secret-cia-report-20141218-129ynq.html

Pakistan 2004-2014

US drone strikes: 405
Total killed: 2,400-3,888
Civilians killed: 416-959
Children killed: 168-204
Injured: 1,133-1,706

Out of Sight Out of Mind – (A visualization of all documented drone strikes in Pakistan since 2004)

Published in Theguardian: 41 men targeted but 1,147 people killed: US drone strikes – the facts on the ground

Published in HuffingtonPost: U.S. Drone Strikes Are Causing Child Casualties: Video and Report

Published in WashingtonPost: Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits, human rights groups say

These articles are just a few randomly selected ones among others which enforce the notion that collateral damage is indeed far larger in number and therefore put a considerable question mark on this covert campaign. If you notice the majority of the casualties are of poor innocent children but ironically we are still entangled in a debate of how feasible this strategy is…I am not able to stand and face myself if at all I see myself advocating drone campaign as it is employed today so pointing fingers at you or others is out of question and neither this is my intention here.

You should also not forget one thing, drones do not attack unless assets on the ground 'light up' specific target(s) and the assets on the ground are the local people. Sometimes they 'light up' certain targets correctly and sometimes to even up the score, personal and family feuds. .

This itself put the current strategy behind drone campaigns in question as it depends on inaccurate intelligence gathered by people who have their own vested interest in stakes etc. I remember few weeks back Pakistan had requested US to hand-over the drone compaign to Pakistan but for some reason it was declined.

The child you are talking about should also told about this stone -aged culture, deficiencies of the very society he is a member of. Putting all the blame on the drones is not fair.

Again Sir, I beg to differ you CANNOT justify depriving an innocent child from his family and loved ones solely based on the stone-aged cultural deficiencies of an ethnic group he belongs to etc … you have to take a higher moral and humanitarian grounds to deal with situations like these…

 

[Hack-Hook]

But you are making this a white vs non-white argument.

The US is an immigrant country and when a person is a US citizen, he/she is an American regardless of origin of birth. So what if some companies are created by immigrants ? What does that say about their countries of birth when these people need to come to the US to prosper ? You think those figures are meant to promote some forms of subtle racism, that somehow immigrants are smarter than white Americans ?

Why do you people so obsessed with who is white and non-whites in the US ? Are you jealous and pissed off that people want to leave your countries to come to the US to spend a few yrs to learn and to get rich ?

The statistics belonged to the people who were not citizen .
And what's this obsesseion with white and not white.
Not all Americans are white and also many immigrants are white then what.
My post has nothing to do with white and black its an answer to a post that asked immigrants not to come to USA.