Changing Colonial era Names (Philippines, Indonesia)

[bronxbull]

Dint want to drag that on but since you had mentioned the connection between Chennai and the one who sold out local villages to Brits so WHATS the difference and whats the use of changing name ?





Yeh it wasn't needed in my personal opinion.

The oldies still remember Layallpur

Ok,Thats your stance.

Thats largely my stance too.

Bengaluru/Kolkatta and names of many cities in Kerala and otherwise were necessary changes as the British changed the names due to lack of pronunciation.

Bombay/Madras were british cities and thus deserved british names.

Dilli/Hyderabad were Muslim cities and took the local names.

 

[INDIC]

Dint want to drag that on but since you had mentioned the connection between Chennai and the one who sold out local villages to Brits so WHATS the difference and whats the use of changing name ?

The city is named after Chennappa Nayakudu of Vijaynagar Empire time from 16th century, he didn't handed over Madras to British. There was another village name Chennanagar and many Tamils had been referring Madras as Chennai before the official name change.

 

[Juice]

Sorry....this needs to go....

 

[INDIC]

Ok,Thats your stance.

Thats largely my stance too.

Bengaluru/Kolkatta and names of many cities in Kerala and otherwise were necessary changes as the British changed the names due to lack of pronunciation.

Bombay/Madras were british cities and thus deserved british names.

Dilli/Hyderabad were Muslim cities and took the local names.

Ancient name of Delhi was Indraprastha.

 

[bronxbull]

Well,thats too ancient dude.

Even though,i wouldn't mind a change.

The thing is all over the world,there is a huge bias now towards shorter names.

My brothers name is Shankar Narayan and thats just his first name.

People may just prefer Delhi,strongly etched in public memory.

 

[Zero_wing]

Wow other stupid move to be an imperial by Wholegrain hahahaha to much time? And does insulting others make you better man? Again no or little knowledge of history

 

[Wholegrain]

@Apothecary

Who do you respect, Rajah Sulayman or King Philip II? Which one did bad things to the people of the Philippines?

Since when is this a religious issue? Sulayman is the Arabic for Solomon. Arab Catholics use that name too.

The name Philip originated as a pagan Greek name. It's not "more" Catholic than Sulayman.

It's about the individual. Rajah Sulayman died as a martyr for the people of the country against the Spanish colonizers, while King Philip II enslaved the people in a colonial system for 300 years and imposed a racist caste system on them, called them by racial slurs and abused the natives.

Why is there a statue of Rajah Sulayman in Rizal park where the other anti Spanish martyrs are commemorated with their statues, and not a statue of King Philip II? There is the Rajah Sulayman park too in Manila, not the King Philip II park.

Rajah Sulayman - Manila, Philippines - Statues of Historic Figures on Waymarking.com

The Spanish colonizers Miguel Lopez de Legazpi and Andres de Urdaneta had their statues created in Manila during Spanish rule, while after the Spanish were thrown out, Rajah Sulayman, Jose Rizal and the other martyrs statues were erected instead. Why not throw out the name too?

Wow other stupid move to be an imperial by Wholegrain hahahaha to much time? And does insulting others make you better man? Again no or little knowledge of history

You keep insulting Chinese people, using racial slurs against them and calling them "imperials", but people of Chinese origin ran and run your country. José Rizal, Emilio Aguinaldo, and Andrés Bonifacio were all of Chinese descent and they were the ones who started the Philippines revolution against Spain in 1896.

Your former President Corazon Aquino's paternal grandparents were Chinese, and her son Benigno S. Aquino III is the President of the Philippines now.

The current Moro Governor of the Autonomous Region of Muslim Mindanao is Abdusakur Tan, also of Chinese descent in the paternal line. One of the many Chinese descendants who lived in Sulu and Maguindanao and mixed with the Moros. Datu Piang municipality is named after the famous Chinese-Moro Datu whose father was Chinese.

Complaining about "imperial" Chinese? Get rid of your President and Governor, disown all your national heroes, rename the municipality....If you have knowledge of history, you should know all of this. Do you insult Chinese people to make yourself feel better about this?

 

[Apothecary]

@Apothecary

Who do you respect, Rajah Sulayman or King Philip II? Which one did bad things to the people of the Philippines?

It's still not fuckin relevant. The philippines had been colonized. The "inferior" culture has been subdued. DO.YOU.UNDERSTAND?
YOU.DO.NOT.NAME.A.COUNTRY.BECAUSE.OF.THE.MINORITY.

Since when is this a religious issue? Sulayman is the Arabic for Solomon. Arab Catholics use that name too.

You're the only one who brought religion in this post. You NOT me.

The name Philip originated as a pagan Greek name. It's not "more" Catholic than Sulayman.

I don't give a s,hit since it's not relevant. And where in the 7 seas made you think that this idea "It's not "more" Catholic than Sulayman."?

It's about the individual. Rajah Sulayman died as a martyr for the people of the country against the Spanish colonizers, while King Philip II enslaved the people in a colonial system for 300 years and imposed a racist caste system on them, called them by racial slurs and abused the natives.

There are about 300 years worth of people with matrydom. King philip doesn't give a s,hit in the philippines as long as the governor general still give tributes from the colony.

Why is there a statue of Rajah Sulayman in Rizal park where the other anti Spanish martyrs are commemorated with their statues, and not a statue of King Philip II? There is the Rajah Sulayman park too in Manila, not the King Philip II park.

Because WE choose to do so. Not YOU.

The Spanish colonizers Miguel Lopez de Legazpi and Andres de Urdaneta had their statues created in Manila during Spanish rule, while after the Spanish were thrown out, Rajah Sulayman, Jose Rizal and the other martyrs statues were erected instead. Why not throw out the name too?

Why do hell would we throw them out statues when the topic is about RENAMING a NATION. NOT about STATUES.

You keep insulting Chinese people, using racial slurs against them and calling them "imperials", but people of Chinese origin ran and run your country.

YOU are literally a ******* idiot. Go and search my post history and quote me when I said and implied all of those things.

José Rizal, Emilio Aguinaldo, and Andrés Bonifacio were all of Chinese descent and they were the ones who started the Philippines revolution against Spain in 1896.Your former President Corazon Aquino's paternal grandparents were Chinese, and her son Benigno S. Aquino III is the President of the Philippines now. The current Moro Governor of the Autonomous Region of Muslim Mindanao is Abdusakur Tan, also of Chinese descent in the paternal line. One of the many Chinese descendants who lived in Sulu and Maguindanao and mixed with the Moros. Datu Piang municipality is named after the famous Chinese-Moro Datu whose father was Chinese.

It's not relevant you brainfart. Does having 1/59th Chinese in their blood is the sole reason for their achievement that they done whilst simultaneously ignoring the other bloodlines in their? IF.YOU.DIDN'T.NOTICE, since you deliberately did, philippines is a major trade stop in the past that it's literally impossible that there would not be some random chinaman merchant not having a 1 night stand from a native girl.

Complaining about "imperial" Chinese? Get rid of your President and Governor, disown all your national heroes, rename the municipality....

When did i even say the word "imperial" you little dishonest little shi,t. And where in the flying hell did i said or implied that I hate all of our hero? You're the ONLY one acting here like a imperial. You're imposing rules and renaming places that you're not even a member off. That's outright hypocrisy.

Do you insult Chinese people to make yourself feel better about this?

Go ahead on my post history. I really hate dishonest people like YOU. I'll be waiting for the quotes.

One cannot renam a whole nation on behalf of a petition of a nation. Unless the point you are making is the Moro IS Philippine. Then it will make his point valid. Fact is,this is far from the truth. Moro only represent less than 5% of the whole Philippine, and that is already a generous given. Calling to rename the name of the country on behalf of those 5% (Filipino) is like trying to renam Americas on behalf of the Native American or try to rename Australia on behalf of indegious people. Which is stupid (already a good way to put it)

Even if you are a Moro, at best you can do is not calling yourselves a Filipino, but you have absolutely no right to rename the country as a whole, like it then you can use it, don't like it? Then stop being FilipinoOne cannot renam a whole nation on behalf of a petition of a nation. Unless the point you are making is the Moro IS Philippine. Then it will make his point valid. Fact is,this is far from the truth. Moro only represent less than 5% of the whole Philippine, and that is already a generous given. Calling to rename the name of the country on behalf of those 5% (Filipino) is like trying to renam Americas on behalf of the Native American or try to rename Australia on behalf of indegious people. Which is stupid (already a good way to put it)

Even if you are a Moro, at best you can do is not calling yourselves a Filipino, but you have absolutely no right to rename the country as a whole, like it then you can use it, don't like it? Then stop being Filipino

This, this is what I'm talking about. The philippines is too heavily influenced by the west via culture and religion. To effectively replace the said country's name, you have to replace the local "Superior"(take note of the quotation mark) culture and instill your own replacement. You don't name a heavily populated catholic latino country with a chinese name. Even if china had a colony there once, the Chinese culture in that example country would be just a footnote.

I'm going to ask you again, DID YOU READ IT? or ARE YOU INCAPABLE OF READING IT?
It's going to be a simple question of a NO or a NO.

Basically, the reason that you want to change our nation's name is..
1. Taiwan and the Philippines has claims on spratly island therefore you as a taiwanese has a say on what we name our nation.
And you fuckin dare to call me an "imperial", you hypocrite.
2. You're sympathetic on a separatist group that has ties with terrorist groups that have ties with fuckin al queda.
3. Because there's 1/59th diluted chinese blood on some filipino therefore, you, as a taiwanese, that may also have some japanese blood or other "racial" blood on your own has the right to tell them what to do.

Go name 1, ONE, uno country that named their country for the international theatre for their minority.

 

[Wholegrain]

You've merged your account with Zero_wing?

@Apothecary


It's still not fuckin relevant. The philippines had been colonized. The "inferior" culture has been subdued. DO.YOU.UNDERSTAND?
YOU.DO.NOT.NAME.A.COUNTRY.BECAUSE.OF.THE.MINORITY.



You're the only one who brought religion in this post. You NOT me.


I don't give a s,hit since it's not relevant. And where in the 7 seas made you think that this idea "It's not "more" Catholic than Sulayman."?


There are about 300 years worth of people with matrydom. King philip doesn't give a s,hit in the philippines as long as the governor general still give tributes from the colony.





Because WE choose to do so. Not YOU.




Why do hell would we throw them out statues when the topic is about RENAMING a NATION. NOT about STATUES.




YOU are literally a ******* idiot. Go and search my post history and quote me when I said and implied all of those things.



It's not relevant you brainfart. Does having 1/59th Chinese in their blood is the sole reason for their achievement that they done whilst simultaneously ignoring the other bloodlines in their? IF.YOU.DIDN'T.NOTICE, since you deliberately did, philippines is a major trade stop in the past that it's literally impossible that there would not be some random chinaman merchant not having a 1 night stand from a native girl.



When did i even say the word "imperial" you little dishonest little shi,t. And where in the flying hell did i said or implied that I hate all of our hero? You're the ONLY one acting here like a imperial. You're imposing rules and renaming places that you're not even a member off. That's outright hypocrisy.



Go ahead on my post history. I really hate dishonest people like YOU. I'll be waiting for the quotes.







I'm going to ask you again, DID YOU READ IT? or ARE YOU INCAPABLE OF READING IT?
It's going to be a simple question of a NO or a NO.

Basically, the reason that you want to change our nation's name is..
1. Taiwan and the Philippines has claims on spratly island therefore you as a taiwanese has a say on what we name our nation.
And you fuckin dare to call me an "imperial", you hypocrite.
2. You're sympathetic on a separatist group that has ties with terrorist groups that have ties with fuckin al queda.
3. Because there's 1/59th diluted chinese blood on some filipino therefore, you, as a taiwanese, that may also have some japanese blood or other "racial" blood on your own has the right to tell them what to do.

Go name 1, ONE, uno country that named their country for the international theatre for their minority.

 

[Awesome]

Easier said than done. Each region would have a different suggestion for the name there won't be any unanimously acceptable name.

 

[Apothecary]

You've merged your account with Zero_wing?

No wonder that Zero is acting that way, You didn't even addressed a SINGLE ONE point that I've said.

Where are "MY" quotes that I hate the Chinese?
Where are "MY" quotes that I hate all our Heroes?
Where are "MY" quotes that I acted like an Imperial?
Where are "MY" quotes that I've said any racial slurs?

WHEN are YOU going to address all these points?

 

[gang4]

That is interesting...
In Bahasa Indonesia, barat means west...In the days of old, I couldn't help but wondering if the word 'barat' (the cardinal location) was derived from the geographical location of India in respect to Indonesia...

 

[Wholegrain]

@Apothecary


It's still not fuckin relevant. The philippines had been colonized. The "inferior" culture has been subdued. DO.YOU.UNDERSTAND?
YOU.DO.NOT.NAME.A.COUNTRY.BECAUSE.OF.THE.MINORITY.



You're the only one who brought religion in this post. You NOT me.


I don't give a s,hit since it's not relevant. And where in the 7 seas made you think that this idea "It's not "more" Catholic than Sulayman."?


There are about 300 years worth of people with matrydom. King philip doesn't give a s,hit in the philippines as long as the governor general still give tributes from the colony.





Because WE choose to do so. Not YOU.




Why do hell would we throw them out statues when the topic is about RENAMING a NATION. NOT about STATUES.


I'm going to ask you again, DID YOU READ IT? or ARE YOU INCAPABLE OF READING IT?
It's going to be a simple question of a NO or a NO.

Basically, the reason that you want to change our nation's name is..
1. Taiwan and the Philippines has claims on spratly island therefore you as a taiwanese has a say on what we name our nation.
And you fuckin dare to call me an "imperial", you hypocrite.
2. You're sympathetic on a separatist group that has ties with terrorist groups that have ties with fuckin al queda.
3. Because there's 1/59th diluted chinese blood on some filipino therefore, you, as a taiwanese, that may also have some japanese blood or other "racial" blood on your own has the right to tell them what to do.

Go name 1, ONE, uno country that named their country for the international theatre for their minority.

First of all the second half of my other comment was in reply to Zero_wing, who constantly attacked and used racial slurs against Chinese members here.

Spratly Islands were occupied and garrisoned by Taiwan and then Tomas Cloma showed up, lied that the islands were terra nullilus (uninhabited) and claimed the islands.

If you guys can make arbitrary claims on our land with no basis in reality why can't we have a say in the name?

As for the separatist group, the Philippines government has signed deals with both the MNLF in the past and MILF now. Their power is recognized in the Moro areas in Mindanao and Sulu and their military wings are allowed to keep their weapons. The 5% minority has guns and organizations recognized by your own government, so why isn't their input listened to? The MNLF and MILF don't like the name "Flipino" because it was imposed by the Spanish who their people fought for 300 years and they were never subdued by the Spanish.

By the way, Spanish people and Spanish mestizos- the actual Filipinos, for whom the name "Filipino" was reserved during Spanish rule, are a minority in the Philippines, not Rajah Sulayman's Tagalog people, the "Indios" as the Spanish called them.

Rajah Sulayman was a Tagalog, King Philip II a Spaniard.

 

[Apothecary]

First of all the second half of my other comment was in reply to Zero_wing, who constantly attacked and used racial slurs against Chinese members here.

Conceded. BUT,

but people of Chinese origin ran and run your country. José Rizal, Emilio Aguinaldo, and Andrés Bonifacio were all of Chinese descent and they were the ones who started the Philippines revolution against Spain in 1896.

Your former President Corazon Aquino's paternal grandparents were Chinese, and her son Benigno S. Aquino III is the President of the Philippines now.

The current Moro Governor of the Autonomous Region of Muslim Mindanao is Abdusakur Tan, also of Chinese descent in the paternal line. One of the many Chinese descendants who lived in Sulu and Maguindanao and mixed with the Moros. Datu Piang municipality is named after the famous Chinese-Moro Datu whose father was Chinese.

Complaining about "imperial" Chinese? Get rid of your President and Governor, disown all your national heroes, rename the municipality....If you have knowledge of history, you should know all of this.

philippines is a major trade stop in the past that it's literally impossible that there would not be some random chinaman merchant not having a 1 night stand from a native girl.

It's not relevant. Does having 1/59th Chinese in their blood is the sole reason for their achievement that they done whilst simultaneously ignoring the other bloodlines in their?

Because there's 1/59th diluted chinese blood on some filipino therefore, you, as a taiwanese, that may also have some japanese blood or other "racial" blood on your own has the right to tell them what to do.

Your arguments are utter rubbish.

Spratly Islands were occupied and garrisoned by Taiwan and then Tomas Cloma showed up, lied that the islands were terra nullilus (uninhabited) and claimed the islands.

If you guys can make arbitrary claims on our land with no basis in reality why can't we have a say in the name?

And China and Vietnam has also claims on those islands. Do these countries also has a say in YOUR your country's name? Learn2Logic

As for the separatist group, the Philippines government has signed deals with both the MNLF in the past and MILF now. Their power is recognized in the Moro areas in Mindanao and Sulu and their military wings are allowed to keep their weapons. The 5% minority has guns and organizations recognized by your own government, so why isn't their input listened to? The MNLF and MILF don't like the name "Flipino" because it was imposed by the Spanish who their people fought for 300 years and they were never subdued by the Spanish.

And WHERE again are those quotes or documents and surveys that shows that the MNLF and the MILF represent a vast majority of the support of the civilian sector and the moro themselves in mindanao? I've been to mindanao. I've seen school sing the filipino anthem, speak the filipino language and outright and identified themselves as filipinos. The only resource you've got is a single measly website.

By the way, Spanish people and Spanish mestizos- the actual Filipinos, for whom the name "Filipino" was reserved during Spanish rule, are a minority in the Philippines, not Rajah Sulayman's Tagalog people, the "Indios" as the Spanish called them.

Rajah Sulayman was a Tagalog, King Philip II a Spaniard.

Here's a tip, there's a word call intertwined and there's also a word call adopted.

And WHY do YOU even CARE about what WE name OUR NATION?
YOU are NOT a MORO and YOU are NOT a FILIPINO.

 

[Wholegrain]

Here's a tip, there's a word call intertwined and there's also a word call adopted.

And WHY do YOU even CARE about what WE name OUR NATION?
YOU are NOT a MORO and YOU are NOT a FILIPINO.

The islands in question were disputed between French indochina and the Republic of China (Taiwan) when Cloma decided to stick his nose in and arbitrarily claim the islands for himself. Your country butted into a bilateral dispute.

Your government also invited American military personnel to participate in the war against the Moros (whom they claim are their own people) in "Operation Enduring Freedom – Philippines". That means MNLF can invite whatever foreigners they want since you invited America. MNLF and MILF have the guns and the political recognition. Most people in Mindanao are Visayan settlers who were moved there by your government. Moros and Lumads are a minority on Mindanao because of your government's settlement of Christian Visayans on the island.

By the way MNLF (Misauri's faction) has alot of armed supporters in the Sulu archipelago. MILF and BIFF have armed supporters in Mindanao.

@Apothecary

If MILF and MNLF aren't supported by a majority of armed Moros in Mindanao and Sulu, why is your government forced to listen to their demands and sign deals with them? Your own government recognizes their presence and power in the region.