Chakwal’s lone Hindu family leads peaceful but secluded life

[Multani]

In Karachi, an overwhelming majority of urdu speaking migrants claim a Syed or a Pathan origin. In Karachi, almost anyone with the name "Syed xyz" is almost always an urdu speaker. I have never seen an urdu speaking person admit his or her hindu background, except for some rajput converts from Haryana, Rajasthan and Delhi region. The urdu speakers from UP and Bihar never claim a local origin, even though some of them have surnames like "Bari", which I read in colonial sources is a surname used by the aboriginal hill tribes in UP, Orissa and Bihar region.

And the rajputs in Punjab, like the Baloch, had a very strong sardari or chieftainship system. Their chiefs had unchallenged power in their regions. So whenever their chiefs converted, most of their clan had to convert too I think. About the Janjuas, I read in H.A.Rose's book that the portion which did not convert to Islam migrated to Hoshiarpur and Himachal Pradesh, where they are known as "Badla" or "Badlial" rajputs, and use the title of Rana.

And in Punjab, particularly the central and southern Punjab, most rajput clans are either Bhatti or a sub-clan of Bhattis. Here's an interesting thing; the Bhati clan of Jaisalmer in Rajasthan have a Punjabi origin. They migrated from Punjab to Rajasthan centuries ago.

That is whole load of lies. There are dozens of ethnicity among Urdu speaking Muslims in Sindh that claim different origins [ of ALL non-Muslim background and they are the majority. For example Shaikhs,, who make up a third ]


"overwhelming majority" of urdu speaking migrants claim syed or pathan origin?

That is false information

 

[Multani]

Interestingly, except for Kashmiris, no group in Pakistan claims a brahmin origin. We have Kshatriya, Sudra and Vaish converts, but Brahmins converts are mysteriously absent. According to my own personal theory, the brahmin converts started claiming a Syed(descendant of Prophet (SAW)) descent to reclaim their lost glory. Today, in Punjab, Syeds are indeed the most respected cast and associated a lot more with religion.

Now to get back at Mohyals. Interestingly, Jalalpur Sharif in present day Jhelum district(near Nandana temple) was known as Girjaakh in history, and was a Mohyal town. Now the same town is a "Syed" town and full of local religious shrines and stuff. So I feel those Syeds are actually Mohyal converts. I can be wrong though, but a genetic test would tell better.

Your personal theory is wrong.

Sadaat have family trees

The family trees prove descent and authenticity.

And about Jalalpur Sharif. You have no right to call the Sadaat as mohyal hindus.

The Chishti Wali Allah, because of whom Jalalpur is known as Sharif.

 

[Kabira]

Your personal theory is wrong.

Sadaat have family trees

The family trees prove descent and authenticity.

And about Jalalpur Sharif. You have no right to call the Sadaat as mohyal hindus.

The Chishti Wali Allah, because of whom Jalalpur is known as Sharif.

Multani brother mashallah your knowledge is vast and superior then all of us. Indians say Ashraf muslims are indeed foreign ancestry because they don't look like local muslims. How true is that?

 

[ghoul]

That is whole load of lies. There are dozens of ethnicity among Urdu speaking Muslims in Sindh that claim different origins [ of ALL non-Muslim background and they are the majority. For example Shaikhs,, who make up a third ]


"overwhelming majority" of urdu speaking migrants claim syed or pathan origin?

That is false information

Have you ever lived in Karachi? Well I have... The day you find an urdu speaker who owns his Hindu convert origin, then let me know. It would be a learning experience for me. And almost all the urdu speakers I have met claim a Pathan, Siddiqui Arab or Syed origin.

Your personal theory is wrong.

Sadaat have family trees

The family trees prove descent and authenticity.

And about Jalalpur Sharif. You have no right to call the Sadaat as mohyal hindus.

The Chishti Wali Allah, because of whom Jalalpur is known as Sharif.

I didn't call them Mohyal hindus. I just doubt their Syed hood. There are more Syeds in Pakistan than Saudi Arabia, Iraq etc. Any genetic test would tell how much of true syeds there are in Pakistan. And yes, some syeds are indeed real. And the whole Jalapur region was dominated by Mohyal brahmins throughout the history. Even Al-Beruni mentioned them living in the region.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Is it?

as by rules u are subjected to show yr country flags as well as location flags. U havnt came under moderator radar, but if somebody mentioned by account name in this Correct flags thread ur location will be tracked by them and they would forcefully put flags on yr account plus a heavy doze of warnings.

 

[Multani]

Multani brother mashallah your knowledge is vast and superior then all of us. Indians say Ashraf muslims are indeed foreign ancestry because they don't look like local muslims. How true is that?

i dont know brother

Have you ever lived in Karachi? Well I have... The day you find an urdu speaker who owns his Hindu convert origin, then let me know. It would be a learning experience for me. And almost all the urdu speakers I have met claim a Pathan, Siddiqui Arab or Syed origin.



I didn't call them Mohyal hindus. I just doubt their Syed hood. There are more Syeds in Pakistan than Saudi Arabia, Iraq etc. Any genetic test would tell how much of true syeds there are in Pakistan. And yes, some syeds are indeed real. And the whole Jalapur region was dominated by Mohyal brahmins throughout the history. Even Al-Beruni mentioned them living in the region.

i doubt the raja hood of some living in Potohar. A true Rajput is a man of honour and respect, not dishonour, disrespect, and cheap shots.

Have you ever lived in Karachi? Well I have... The day you find an urdu speaker who owns his Hindu convert origin, then let me know. It would be a learning experience for me. And almost all the urdu speakers I have met claim a Pathan, Siddiqui Arab or Syed origin.



I didn't call them Mohyal hindus. I just doubt their Syed hood. There are more Syeds in Pakistan than Saudi Arabia, Iraq etc. Any genetic test would tell how much of true syeds there are in Pakistan. And yes, some syeds are indeed real. And the whole Jalapur region was dominated by Mohyal brahmins throughout the history. Even Al-Beruni mentioned them living in the region.

And why shouldnt they be proud of being Pathan, Siddiqui, Farooqui, Uthmani, Alavi, Sayyid, Shaikh, Qureshi, Mughal, Ansari, Mansoori, Marwari, and from among the dozens of biradaris in UP and Bihar?


Who are you? Racial police?

 

[Multani]

@save_ghenda

i believe most pathan urdu speakers in Karachi are from local hindu backgrounds in india that were absorbed into ever expanding pathan communities. They were not endogamous. Sayyids are another such group.

Both these groups have always been expansive. Other biradaris shrank, while pathan biradari grew.

The pathan community surnames grew by assimilating a lot of converts through continuous marriage.

The majority of Muslims in Doaba Uttar Pradesh today are not pathan, but have always been Gujjar, Rajputs [ Ranghar], Jatt, Shaikhs, and from artisan biradaris.

Saharanpur / Meerut / Muzaffarnagar is their base . They are largely endogamous like Pakistani biradaris.

 

[Kabira]

@save_ghenda

i believe most pathan urdu speakers in Karachi are from local hindu backgrounds in india that were absorbed into ever expanding pathan communities. They were not endogamous. Sayyids are another such group.

Both these groups have always been expansive. Other biradaris shrank, while pathan biradari grew.

The pathan community surnames grew by assimilating a lot of converts through continuous marriage.

The majority of Muslims in Doaba Uttar Pradesh today are not pathan, but have always been Gujjar, Rajputs [ Ranghar], Jatt, Shaikhs, and from artisan biradaris.

Saharanpur / Meerut / Muzaffarnagar is their base . They are largely endogamous like Pakistani biradaris.

Multani brother mashallah your post was very informative. You meant to say that Karachi muhajir pathans are fake but syeds are genuine?

 

[Multani]

Have you ever lived in Karachi? Well I have... The day you find an urdu speaker who owns his Hindu convert origin, then let me know. It would be a learning experience for me. And almost all the urdu speakers I have met claim a Pathan, Siddiqui Arab or Syed origin.



I didn't call them Mohyal hindus. I just doubt their Syed hood. There are more Syeds in Pakistan than Saudi Arabia, Iraq etc. Any genetic test would tell how much of true syeds there are in Pakistan. And yes, some syeds are indeed real. And the whole Jalapur region was dominated by Mohyal brahmins throughout the history. Even Al-Beruni mentioned them living in the region.

Also, it is very strange that you mention iraq. This tells me you have very little idea about Sayyids.

Do you know there are per capita twice or more Sayyids in Iraq and Saudi than Pakistan or indian Muslims?

There is a Sayyid Saudi here on PDF, who can tell you about the massive Ashraaf tribes in Iraq and Saudi, that dominate entire regions.

Iraq has massive Sayyid clans, for example the Mashhadaanis.

Multani brother mashallah your post was very informative. You meant to say that Karachi muhajir pathans are fake but syeds are genuine?

i never used the word fake for anyone. Please re-read my post.

 

[Musafir117]

The Rohilla leader Daud Khan was awarded the Katehar (later called Rohilkhand) region in the then northern India by Mughal emperor Aurangzeb Alamgir (ruled 1658-1707) to suppress the Rajput uprisings, which had afflicted this region. Originally, some 20,000 soldiers from various Pashtun tribes (Yusafzai, Ghori, Ghilzai, Barech, Marwat, Durrani, Tareen, Kakar, Naghar, Afridi and Khattak) were hired by Mughals to provide soldiers to the Mughal armies. Their performance was appreciated by Mughal emperor Aurangzeb Alamgir, and an additional force of 25,000 Pashtuns were recruited from modern Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and Afghanistan and were given respected positions in Mughal Army. Nearly all of Pashtuns settled in the Katehar region and also brought their families from modern Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and Afghanistan. During Nadir Shah's invasion of northern India in 1739, the new wave of Pashtuns settled increasing their population to over 100,0000. Due to the large settlement of Rohilla Afghans, the Katehar region gained fame as Rohilkhand. Bareilly was made the capital of the Rohilkhand state and it became Pashtun majority city with Gali Nawaban as the main royal street. Other important cities were Moradabad, Rampur, Shahjahanpur, Badaun, and others.[8][9] After the Third Battle of Panipat fought in 1761 between the Ahmad Shah Durrani and Maratha Empire thousands of Pashtun and Baloch soldiers settled in the northern India. These diverse ethnic, cultural and linguistic groups merged over the centuries to the form the Urdu speaking Muslims of South Asia.

It is estimated that about 35% of Urdu speakers in Pakistan are of Pashtun origin. Before the independence of Pakistan, in provinces such as Uttar Pradesh and Bihar had significant population of Pashtuns. These Pashtuns over the years lost their language Pashto and culture and adopted Urdu as their first language.

Wikipedia.

 

[Kabira]

i never used the word fake for anyone. Please re-read my post.

Multani brother what you meant by this?

''i believe most pathan urdu speakers in Karachi are from local hindu backgrounds in india''

 

[third eye]

Read my post again, i said they are Sindhus which is proper word for them. Calling Pakistani a hindu is very insulting, please be careful next time.

Are you suggesting that a Hindu living in Pakistan is not a Pakistani ?

What is insulting ?


@Aeronaut , your views please .

 

[Pak_Sher]

All citizens of Pakistan are guaranteed equal rights in Islam and the constitution. If Rana Bhagwan Das can become the Chief Justice of Pakistan and act as the Pakistani President while President Musharaf used to be on foreign tours then all minorities should strive for that level.

 

[Butchcassidy]

Interestingly, except for Kashmiris, no group in Pakistan claims a brahmin origin. We have Kshatriya, Sudra and Vaish converts, but Brahmins converts are mysteriously absent. According to my own personal theory, the brahmin converts started claiming a Syed(descendant of Prophet (SAW)) descent to reclaim their lost glory. Today, in Punjab, Syeds are indeed the most respected cast and associated a lot more with religion.

Now to get back at Mohyals. Interestingly, Jalalpur Sharif in present day Jhelum district(near Nandana temple) was known as Girjaakh in history, and was a Mohyal town. Now the same town is a "Syed" town and full of local religious shrines and stuff. So I feel those Syeds are actually Mohyal converts. I can be wrong though, but a genetic test would tell better.

Your theory is correct in most parts. Most of the brahmins who converted were given higher status in islam in the subcontinent as a form of enticement to make others convert.
Old saying:
Jatt sells grains to make a living
Gujjar sells milk to make a living
Syed sells religion to make a living

 

[Kabira]

Are you suggesting that a Hindu living in Pakistan is not a Pakistani ?

What is insulting ?


@Aeronaut , your views please .

What i said hindu is wrong term for follower of true Rig Vedic religion, like that Pakistani family. Hindu term is foreign and exclusive to Indian hindus who are followers of Ganga hinduism. You can call Pakistani followers of Rig Vedic religion as Sindhus. Arabs used to differentiate between Pakistan and Bharat as Al-Sindh and Al-Hind 13 centuries ago!

@Aeronaut please take care of this guy who want to hindunise Pakistani followers of rig vedic religion.

Your theory is correct in most parts. Most of the brahmins who converted were given higher status in islam in the subcontinent as a form of enticement to make others convert.
Old saying:
Jatt sells grains to make a living
Gujjar sells milk to make a living
Syed sells religion to make a living

Syed surname was perfect replacement for Brahmins converts.