CERN wants more Indian scientists, engineers

[jbond197]

Good news for the youngsters!! India should invest in CERN it will give the returns by helping build good scientific exposure to youth and also give a chance for youngsters to work with the best of the best. It is anyways good to invest in Science and education.

It sounded someone cracked a joke when it was suggested that such facility can be built in India. Dude, get serious and know what you are talking about. As a starter, Look at the effort the scientific community from all over the world is putting together to get the results out of the experiment.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

100 % contributions came from these countries anyway, so why would India contribute every now and again.
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CERN is a growing activity.

 

[Rangila]

CERN is a growing activity.

Show me any new monetary contribution from India to CERN from last 5 years.

 

[jbond197]

Show me any new monetary contribution from India to CERN from last 5 years.

I would rather like India to invest in CERN!! What's wrong with it?

 

[Rangila]

I would rather like India to invest in CERN!! What's wrong with it?

It already has.

 

[jbond197]

It already has.

Good then it needs to increase with more Indian scientists involvement!! That will be a good move in many ways both for CERN and India!!

 

[Developereo]

The Researchers are paid from their parent organisations. CERN only covers their expenses. The contributing countries "share" the reesearch data and then use it to supplement their own local research work.

In conclusion, CERN is a 'shared facility'. Only Countries with subtantial work in Fundamental Research are able to join there. That is how India is part of it.
And in answer to somebody's question here: why some of India's neighbors have no role there.

Not really.

Joining CERN does have advantages, as in access to their facilities, but is not a badge of honor.

CERN is desperate for money since Ireland and Turkey decided joining CERN wasn't worth it (tens of millions of dollars/year).

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Not really.

Joining CERN does have advantages, as in access to their facilities, but is not a badge of honor.

CERN is desperate for money since Ireland and Turkey decided joining CERN wasn't worth it (tens of millions of dollars/year).

LOLL, who says it is a badge of honor. Maybe just some disappointed souls!

CERN is simply a shared facility where some extremely esoteric phenomena are being investigated. So only counties who have significant and substantial Fundamental Research Programs are a part of it.
Is that simpler now?

 

[jaibi]

I believe it's more about CERN getting money from India than anything. No doubt India has some brilliant minds in engineering and along with China and Pakistan this region produces great engineers but the engineers should stay home and develop the industry and knowledge indigenously. India also needs to concentrate on the quality of the product (just like us, Pakistanis too)

See: Testing India's graduates: The engineering gap | The Economist

and

India Graduates Millions, but Too Few Are Fit to Hire - WSJ.com

 

[Capt.Popeye]

I believe it's more about CERN getting money from India than anything. No doubt India has some brilliant minds in engineering and along with China and Pakistan this region produces great engineers but the engineers should stay home and develop the industry and knowledge indigenously. India also needs to concentrate on the quality of the product (just like us, Pakistanis too)

See: Testing India's graduates: The engineering gap | The Economist

and

India Graduates Millions, but Too Few Are Fit to Hire - WSJ.com

@jaibi; My friend you seem to be getting confused here. Institutions like CERN are doing work in Fundamental Sciences or Fundamental Research. Engineering is part of Applied Sciences.

It so happens that India is very strong in Fundamental Science research and has been so for a long time. Because most of the work is done by brain-power and calculations by slide-rules; which are now replaced by computers and super-computers. Therefor it is about scientists not engineers (as you have written in your post). This kind of work is not for or by the masses (even scientist masses). Very few are capable of this kind of work. Some of it is very abstract and some of it will reach dead-ends at various times. That is the reason why CERN is a 'shared-facility' where countries have contributed both money and brain-power.
The spin-off from that research into every-day life including Engineering is some time into the future.

As an illustration: What one man-Archimedes thought of in his head; is floating many boats now.
That is what CERN is about. Nothing to do with Engineering in direct terms.

 

[Developereo]

LOLL, who says it is a badge of honor. Maybe just some disappointed souls!

CERN is simply a shared facility where some extremely esoteric phenomena are being investigated. So only counties who have significant and substantial Fundamental Research Programs are a part of it.
Is that simpler now?

Again wrong.

The US, Russia and China are not part of it.

It is primarily a European counterpart to American, Russian and Chinese indigenous organizations. Its member countries, like Cyprus and Slovakia, do not have "significant and substantial" programs.

Over time, desperate for money, they tried to attract more members, but have been having a hard time.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Again wrong.

The US, Russia and China are not part of it.

It is primarily a European counterpart to American, Russian and Chinese indigenous organizations. Its member countries, like Cyprus and Slovakia, do not have "significant and substantial" programs.

Over time, desperate for money, they tried to attract more members, but have been having a hard time.

Who cares if Russia or USA are in it or not? If people have money to set up a facility independently they will.
Or they will share resources to set up a shared facility. Which is more sensible for esoteric work.
Then there is a third category; countries who have insignificant Fundamental Research programs.

 

[Developereo]

Then there is a third category; countries who have insignificant Fundamental Research programs.

I know I have hurt the mighty Indian ego with the reality check

But the fact is that Ireland and Turkey decided not to join CERN and they are desperate for money. That's why they are asking India.

Real research powerhouses, like US, Russia, China and Japan have their own programs.

You, of course, are welcome to believe whatever you wish.

 

[jaibi]

@jaibi; My friend you seem to be getting confused here. Institutions like CERN are doing work in Fundamental Sciences or Fundamental Research. Engineering is part of Applied Sciences.

It so happens that India is very strong in Fundamental Science research and has been so for a long time. Because most of the work is done by brain-power and calculations by slide-rules; which are now replaced by computers and super-computers. Therefor it is about scientists not engineers (as you have written in your post). This kind of work is not for or by the masses (even scientist masses). Very few are capable of this kind of work. Some of it is very abstract and some of it will reach dead-ends at various times. That is the reason why CERN is a 'shared-facility' where countries have contributed both money and brain-power.
The spin-off from that research into every-day life including Engineering is some time into the future.

As an illustration: What one man-Archimedes thought of in his head; is floating many boats now.
That is what CERN is about. Nothing to do with Engineering in direct terms.

Hey, Capt. hope you are well. I am aware of CERN and its functions and alos about engineering but thanks for telling me anyways. I just wished to highlight an aspect as done by most of your fellow countrymen that a) great minds need to serve their own nation rather than be shipped out to the West and my own point was that b) We South Asians sometimes forget to see the entire picture. Yes, we have great exceptions in fields but we mustn't forget the bigger picture in our celebrations it is a system that ensures success not few bright stars. It's connected to a research I was doing but it got canned due to being controversial where we tested exceptional professionals against the normal population of those professionals (the case study was to take Aga Khan Medical Uni and King Edward Medical Uni graduates and average medical graduates and see their professional ranking and development) Same goes with India, yes there are great minds but collectively our product quality is not at par with the West.

I apologise to any Indian who thought my point was to take away CERN's remarks. It was not.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

I know I have hurt the mighty Indian ego with the reality check

But the fact is that Ireland and Turkey decided not to join CERN and they are desperate for money. That's why they are asking India.

Real research powerhouses, like US, Russia, China and Japan have their own programs.

You, of course, are welcome to believe whatever you wish.

Just as you are welcome to believe whatever you wish.
So far as my ego is concerned; I know where the Boson part of the Higgs-Boson particle (the so-called God Particle) originated from. So nothing that you can take away from me; is'nt it ?

p.s. just check out how much Fundamental Research is carried out in USA vis-a-vis Applied Research; for example. It will be be an eye-opener!