Centre scraps $20 billion MMRCA deal for 126 Rafale jets for IAF, LCA Tejas to replace MiG-21

[Bang Galore]

And why did the project got cancelled after selection of L1 or L2 vendor ? That too after 5 years of selection ?

L1 was behaving funnily after being designated so. Dassault was asking for an increased price which would have made it L2. L1 having already been designated as such, the government's hands were tied because the rules do not allow for negotiations with L2. This deal was an absolute mess on the cost issue alone, without even going into ToT & manufacturing issues. The government would have been skewered by the CAG audit team if such a deal had been signed. The government realised (the previous one did too but sat on it) that this deal was going nowhere. Hence the G2G contract.

 

[MilSpec]

Ofc capex projects goes through multiple rounds of review and approvals. Joke was on the project management team which in this case happens to be govt. who took 12 years to decide that the project is not suitable. Even if the time line is ruled out, how can u explain the lengthy process which the air-force had to go through ? The sheer man hours (resources ) wasted for over a decade ?

And why did the project got cancelled after selection of L1 or L2 vendor ? That too after 5 years of selection ?

Well, oversimplification usually points towards ignorance,
Formal Proposals were submitted by 28 April 2008, i.e 7 years ago,

On 27 May 2009 Indian Air Force completed the technical evaluation of all 6 fighter jets.

The IAF was to complete an evaluation report on the six fighters in July 2010 and then begin to shortlist them based on the air force's evaluations, i.e. 5 years ago.

The two competing financial bids were formally opened on 4 November 2011. i.e. 4 years ago.

On 31 January 2012, it was announced that the Dassault Rafale won the competition and has been selected for exclusive negotiations. (i.e 3 years ago)

Despite efforts, negotiations had once again stalled by October 2014, due to disputes over final costs and technology transfers. According to official reports, Dassault remained unwilling to be held liable for the 108 Rafales to be manufactured under licence by HAL, Unlike SU30MKI....

Hope that gives some perspective on you 12 year timeline.

As far as the project management team, it went right through G0 through G5, but timelines are based of the availability and participation of the international vendors, their technical teams.

One place where the IAF went wrong was to improper evaluations of the life cycle costs, it should not have accepted vendor submitted estimates, and have added a penalty cost for iability to stick to the cost submitted in the proposal.

 

[Dash]

@Bang Galore Everyone here seemed to have missed the CAG. looks like the got has made a tactical decision than a strategic one. They are likely to get more aggressive after the outcome of this in principle deal with French got.

@sancho if our reputation has gone down as a country then it's only because of the previous UPA govt as they consistently sat in this deal and allowed the ared tape to grow out of proportion. here I must say that I'm not trying to give it a political angle but it will be always a subject of silent introspection.

 

[ArsalanKhan21]

Finally a sane decision ! India cannot afford $20 billion buying 144 fighters. Replacing old Mig-21 with Tejas is best decision. Pakistan is also replacing 200 older fighters with JF-17 and may buy 36 J-10B as frontline fighters.

 

[Dash]

@MilSpec Dassult even agreed on taking the ownership of 108 Rafale made by HAL but insisted that the man hour calculation done at the initial period of negotiation is wrong and Rafael can be delivered faster than anticipated by HAL along with the increase in the over all cost of the plane.

 

[#hydra#]

I

True. And all the Indians will call you a troll and a Pakistani or Chinese.



Lol. And you only been in PDF for a month. It's was easy to be against this lingering deal a month ago. If you were 3-5 years ago, your opinion would be more credible.

I have been reading PDF articles since 2009...

 

[axisofevil]

@Guynextdoor2 see bhakts defending this fallacy
. Modi scrapped the effing deal only coz it was initiated by Upa. political enmity above natural interests

Nah not at all.. UPA has shown a great deal of incompetence in everything they did. Haven't you been paying attention? Just look at their Land Billl and all the errors that were in the bill! This is typical in the way the UPA did business. So many loopholes that were not corrected properly which made us sign into contracts that were bad for us.

 

[Ankit Kumar 001]

Hi
@ArsalanKhan21
Sir 2 points.
1. This deal was never near to 20 billion dollars figure. At the most it was 15-16 billion dollars. You can refer this from senior members like @Abingdonboy and @sancho.
2. This deal for canceled due to the reason of co production by HAL as mentioned in each and every report by the media or by MoD.

And at last just remember me when a further order of 54 more Rafales are given by MoD.

Good day
Cheers
Thanks

 

[MilSpec]

@MilSpec Dassult even agreed on taking the ownership of 108 Rafale made by HAL but insisted that the man hour calculation done at the initial period of negotiation is wrong and Rafael can be delivered faster than anticipated by HAL along with the increase in the over all cost of the plane.

There are additional issues with the proposal submitted by dassault too, which cannot be brought to light in public domain. Do understand, Dassault has close to zero experience in ToT, compared to HAL having builtt close to 1000 aircrafts under ToT.
As I have maintained throughout, HAL should have been included in Life cycle cost evaluation from Day 1, but MoD back in those days was busy with other interests.

 

[帅的一匹]

8 years past, nothing done.

 

[Providence]

Well, oversimplification usually points towards ignorance,
Formal Proposals were submitted by 28 April 2008, i.e 7 years ago,

On 27 May 2009 Indian Air Force completed the technical evaluation of all 6 fighter jets.

The IAF was to complete an evaluation report on the six fighters in July 2010 and then begin to shortlist them based on the air force's evaluations, i.e. 5 years ago.

The two competing financial bids were formally opened on 4 November 2011. i.e. 4 years ago.

On 31 January 2012, it was announced that the Dassault Rafale won the competition and has been selected for exclusive negotiations. (i.e 3 years ago)

Despite efforts, negotiations had once again stalled by October 2014, due to disputes over final costs and technology transfers. According to official reports, Dassault remained unwilling to be held liable for the 108 Rafales to be manufactured under licence by HAL, Unlike SU30MKI....

Hope that gives some perspective on you 12 year timeline.

As far as the project management team, it went right through G0 through G5, but timelines are based of the availability and participation of the international vendors, their technical teams.

One place where the IAF went wrong was to improper evaluations of the life cycle costs, it should not have accepted vendor submitted estimates, and have added a penalty cost for iability to stick to the cost submitted in the proposal.

Irrespective of the timelines, one thing which is irrevocable is the amount of man hours, expertise and credibility which was lost in the process.

I said 12, you argued 8 years as if 8 years of time is something which is less !

 

[SirHatesALot]

There wont be any future orders of rafales, even this order of 36 is not confirmed finally mmrca drama ends with no acquisition at all.

 

[MilSpec]

Irrespective of the timelines, one thing which is irrevocable is the amount of man hours, expertise and credibility which was lost in the process.

I said 12, you argued 8 years as if 8 years of time is something which is less !

If you could read, I said that just the proposals were submitted 8 years ago. Selection through the technical evaluation, testing and transfer bid was completed by 2012. So evaluation and technical committee did their job.

The deal got stuck there onwards between IAF and dassault.

 

[IND151]

36 Rafales are not enough.

Over next some years we will phasing out Mig 21s, Mig 27s and Jags, which need to be replaced and LCA can not alone replace them, it has its own limitations.

We need at least 100 Rafales.

You didn't watch the entire interview then. He said all future rafale order will be through govt to govt deal for faster induction. Means India will bypass mmrca(talking to dassault) and rather talk to france government.

Many sources say same.

Calm down guys,

DM has stated that "All further purchases of Rafael would be by Govt to Govt mode".

This means:

1. There would be further purchases.

2. GoI would negotiate with GoF, not Dassault for purchases.




Yesterday, DM has said that rest 108 Jets would be made in India.

So I think that TOT is still on. Just dialouge partners have changed.

Exactly.

Only 36 Rafales dont make sense.

 

[帅的一匹]

36 Rafales are not enough.

Over next some years we will phasing out Mig 21s, Mig 27s and Jags, which need to be replaced and LCA can not alone replace them, it has its own limitations.

We need at least 100 Rafales.



Many sources say same.



Exactly.

Only 36 Rafales dont make sense.

then buy another 64 off the shelf.