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Canada to buy 65 F-35 for $9 billion

You mean in case of Russian attack , US air force will be responsible for Canadian Air defence? lolz

To a degree yes. Do you really think the U.S. would let Russia go to war with Canada ? Plus why on earth would that even happen ? Last i checked the Cold War has been over for a while and we all know who came out on top.
 
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To a degree yes. Do you really think the U.S. would let Russia go to war with Canada ? Plus why on earth would that even happen ? Last i checked the Cold War has been over for a while and we all know who came out on top.

Canada is involved in development of F35 from level 3 , it will be beneficial for Canada in both economically and defence point of view.

Canada

Canada has been involved in the Joint Strike Fighter Program from its beginning, investing US$10 million to be an "informed partner" during the evaluation process. Once Lockheed Martin was selected as the primary contractor for the JSF program, Canada elected to become a level 3 participant along with Norway, Denmark, Turkey, and Australia on the JSF project. An additional US$100 million from the Canadian Department of National Defence (DND) over 10 years and another $50 million from Industry Canada were dedicated in 2002, making them an early participant of the JSF program.[157]

Canada's rationale for joining the JSF project was not due to an urgent need to replace Canada's fleet of CF-18 Hornets; instead, it was driven primarily by economics.[157] Through Canadian government investment in the JSF project, Canadian companies were allowed to compete for contracts within the JSF project, as there were fears that being shut out from industrial participation in such a large program would severely damage the Canadian aviation industry.[157] Joining also furthered Canadian access to information regarding the F-35 as a possible contender when it eventually plans to replace the CF-18 Hornet fleet. Improved interoperability with major allies allowed the DND to gain insight on leading edge practices in composites, manufacturing and logistics, and offered the ability to recoup some investment if the government did decide to purchase the F-35.[157]

As a result of the Canadian government investment in the JSF project, 144 contracts were awarded to Canadian companies, universities, and government facilities. Financially, the contracts are valued at US$490 million for the period 2002 to 2012, with an expected value of US$1.1 billion from current contracts in the period between 2013 and 2023, and a total potential estimated value of Canadian JSF involvement from US$4.8 billion to US$6.8 billion.[157]

In June 2010, The Globe and Mail reported that Canada would buy 65 Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II fighters to replace the 80 CF-18s for $9 billion starting in 2017.[158]
 
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You mean in case of Russian attack , US air force will be responsible for Canadian Air defence? lolz
To a degree yes. Do you really think the U.S. would let Russia go to war with Canada ? Plus why on earth would that even happen ? Last i checked the Cold War has been over for a while and we all know who came out on top.
Yes...If Russia ever attack Canada, it will not be against Canada but against North America. The US is the overwhelming military superior in the Western Hemisphere. The Canadian members may not like it but in this hypothetical scenario, the US will assume air defense leadership over the entire Western Hemisphere.
 
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Yes...If Russia ever attack Canada, it will not be against Canada but against North America. The US is the overwhelming military superior in the Western Hemisphere. The Canadian members may not like it but in this hypothetical scenario, the US will assume air defense leadership over the entire Western Hemisphere.

Can US Air force alone be effective against Russian and Chinies joint attackes?

I think in that senario US need NATO support
 
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Hi,

I think it's a very bad argument to make that an economy is bad, therefore don't buy fighter jets. One simple counterargument is that fighter jets last 30-50 years and recessions or depressions much shorter. Why not wait until that's over? Because that's not how military procurement works. It will be years and years before we have a F-35, and maybe by then Ontario isn't in recession anymore. This is coming from one of those so-called new grads you want to protect with 50k debt, who lives in Toronto, Ontario.

There is another reason why saying that "economy sucks, don't buy fighter jets" is a bad argument. Government budgets do not work the same way personal finances do. Taking money away from the military does not guarantee money for other spending. Parliamentary and Senate committees never say, if we don't buy this we can buy that instead. It is not even the way business works, since budget for the IT department is completely separate from budget for the HR department. With this kind of logic America should get 0 F-22s because it is deep in debt and deep in recession (much worse than Canada) and will go bankrupt. The reality is, what matters is the kit and assets, because governments can A. print money B. hold onto debt for generations and C. get loans and financing due to being an economy of large scale impossible for companies or individuals.

Next, are fighter jets necessary? I would have to say yes. First, the Americans do not agree with Canadian claims to the Northwest passage. In international law, if you don't protect it you lose it. So simply by having fighter jets that means in minutes we can fly fighter jets over our territory, and strengthen territorial claim. Secondly, there is the need to shoot down civilian airliners should there be another 9/11. Americans will come to help if Canada is ever invaded yes, but certainly they would defend US territory first and unless we seriously want long term American bases inside Canada (not a good idea) there has to be a Canadian airforce. Even a token airforce. It does not matter that the USA has thousands of planes and we'll only have 65. By having that 65, we are asserting our sovereignty and independence from the USA. For example, we could deny entry to our airspace with only one squadron of fighters, and another country not willing to provoke an international incident (like USA) would back off.

Thirdly (and the most likely scenario) is should Canadian national interests be threatened and Canada deploy fighter jets, I want Canadian pilots to have the best possible fighter jet. Now what is the most likely scenario? A Yugoslavia-like mission, mandated by NATO, where Canadian fighters do bombing runs. Every single consideration (payload, dual/single engine, even cost) is secondary to me to survivability. Because, I want Canadian pilots to come home safe. Now in 30-50 years, what if another Rwanda happens? And what if that dictator is armed to the teeth with S-300 and PAK FA and the latest SU-30 models and other high end Russian equipment? Super hornet would be slaughtered in that kind of environment, while F-35 has a chance to come out alive especially with USA support. Now it is entirely true that the USA could do it alone, without Canadians. But the entire point is that Canada can be in the fight, be part of an international coalition if it wants. If a genocide was happening in Haiti, Canadians would demand we be there, even if it was just a token amount of fighters and the Americans were doing the heavy lifting.

So in summary,

1. Fighter jets are essential and F-35 is the only true Western choice (F-22 not being exportable).

2. Giving up fighter jets means not only giving up domestic needs (future 9/11, sovereign airspace, northwest passage) but also international commitments (commitments to NATO, Canadian commitments like to prevent genocide etc.)

3. You cannot make a realistic argument that a country does not need fighter jets based on economy for many reasons.

4. If you are going to have a fighter jet, for a country like Canada the main concern is to have the best fighter jet possible (within other constraints like interoperability with Western allies) because you want the Canadian pilot to be the best protected.
 
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It is very worst deal for Canada. Harper government is moving ahead to purchase without analysing and competitive prices....There are other planes can do jobs just like F-35s in which Canada always lack of analysis.

Unnecessary planes- 'Flying Cadillac'

very true, we dont need these period. Total waste of money.
 
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I used to think like that too but it doesn't matter if there's other planes that can do what F-35 can. Only that F-35 is the latest tech and most likely to bring the Canadian pilot home.

I would rather have 40 F-35 than 200 F-18. Why? Because the military power of both is minimal compared to the USA. But with the F-35, likely 0 Canadian pilots are killed fighting some dictator with latest Russian tech, but dozens of Canadians killed since they are flying USN bomb trucks. Anything in the air without stealth will be garbage in the next gen wars, and Russia is selling its latest tech to anyone with money.

Again please consider that for the small Canadian airforce F-35 is the only realistic choice.*

*By realistic I also mean it would be politically impossible for any party even after a "competitive analysis" to buy Russian planes, that Typhoon costs even more money and is not a true 5th gen plane, and that when politicians talk about "competitive analysis" what they really mean is we don't want to pay for it at all but want to talk about it for another 20 years
 
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Guys you don't need anything more advanced then f35 because in any case Canadian Air Space will be protected by USAF under NORAD Command if some country invades North America.
 
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At a minimum we need stealth. Or we can forget operating in any country with NATO in the next 50 years with enough money to buy Russian tech.

All this talk of competitive bidding makes me barf. Competitive bidding only makes sense with military hardware if you're going to invent it, if you are a big buyer. For example, make specs, hope Lockheed Martin or Northrop Grumman or another contractor invents say F-22. But Canada will never have the money or time to do this. Seems like some people think Canada can invent Avro Arrow again.

Instead we should be saying, we need this, buy this. I would rather have a single squadron of F-35 than buy F-18 in any quantity, just for the stealth. SU-30, SU-35 and T-50 will annihilate anything without it.

We are a small buyer. We have to take what we get, when we can. If a country like Japan is being told JSF will go up in price Canada will do even worse if we delay longer and start a mock "competition" which will only result in F-35 anyway. Better to buy now and get locked in now to send signal to those companies that Canada is serious unlike Japan so perhaps we get the first frames or a small discount for being a sooner buyer.
 
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Setting ourselves up for getting screwed just like with the CF-18 baby Hornet. And I don't think either Russia or China would invade Canada to get to the U.S. If anything the U.S. will invade us for fresh water or oil. We are after all their backyard.
 
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I personally think if US gets missiles from Russia US will deflect it to Canada just like all the flight were sent to Canadian Airports after
incidents in past
 
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