Can we do more with Al-Zarrar

[Nishan_101]

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_Army#Armour

Pakistan Army inventory has about:
54 T-54/55
1200/1500 Type 59
300/400 Type 69-II

about 1400 Al-Zarrar(Upgraded form of Type 59-II)

So I was thinking that if Pakistan Army had Negotiated with BD and Sri Lanka over the purchase of Al-Zarrar's by even including an AUTO LOADER then we can upgrade our inventory of:
54 T-54/55
1200/1500 Type 59
300/400 Type 69-II


To Al-Zarrar standards and we can buy some T-54/55/59/69 Tanks from BDs and other countries later on to then upgrade them and sell them again. And put more efforts and money over the development and production of Al-Khalid and make it our main stray MBT of about 3000 Tanks in total.

 

[fatman17]

al-zarrar is basically a platform to train tank crews. its not considered a front-line MBT. hence the purchase of T-80UD and AK-1's. of course in times of war, they will be used.....they are being used in WoT.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_Army#Armour

Pakistan Army inventory has about:
54 T-54/55
1200/1500 Type 59
300/400 Type 69-II

about 1400 Al-Zarrar(Upgraded form of Type 59-II)

So I was thinking that if Pakistan Army had Negotiated with BD and Sri Lanka over the purchase of Al-Zarrar's by even including an AUTO LOADER then we can upgrade our inventory of:
54 T-54/55
1200/1500 Type 59
300/400 Type 69-II


To Al-Zarrar standards and we can buy some T-54/55/59/69 Tanks from BDs and other countries later on to then upgrade them and sell them again. And put more efforts and money over the development and production of Al-Khalid and make it our main stray MBT of about 3000 Tanks in total.

I very much doubt if we have 1,400 al zarrar's.

Wikipedia's estimate is also not correct.

 

[Nishan_101]

al-zarrar is basically a platform to train tank crews. its not considered a front-line MBT. hence the purchase of T-80UD and AK-1's. of course in times of war, they will be used.....they are being used in WoT.



I very much doubt if we have 1,400 al zarrar's.

Wikipedia's estimate is also not correct.

It was also bad because Pak Army had not though about doing JV for tanks and APC with Gemans or Ukraine in 1990s...

 

[Umair Nawaz]

It was also bad because Pak Army had not though about doing JV for tanks and APC with Gemans or Ukraine in 1990s...

Germans i dont think so Ukrainians yes.

 

[Gentelman]

1st let them upgrade all the type 54,55,59,69.2 to Al Zarrar standard……
then we will think for future……

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_Army#Armour

Pakistan Army inventory has about:
54 T-54/55
1200/1500 Type 59
300/400 Type 69-II

about 1400 Al-Zarrar(Upgraded form of Type 59-II)

So I was thinking that if Pakistan Army had Negotiated with BD and Sri Lanka over the purchase of Al-Zarrar's by even including an AUTO LOADER then we can upgrade our inventory of:
54 T-54/55
1200/1500 Type 59
300/400 Type 69-II


To Al-Zarrar standards and we can buy some T-54/55/59/69 Tanks from BDs and other countries later on to then upgrade them and sell them again. And put more efforts and money over the development and production of Al-Khalid and make it our main stray MBT of about 3000 Tanks in total.

Pakistan has 500-600 al zarrars not 1400.Al zarrar is not suitable to be mainstay of the pak tankforce,al kahlid already has that position,to equip both new tank battalions with al khalids AND upgrade huge numbers of al zarrar are contradictary paths that doing both would probably break the bank.Al zarrar is probably stopgap until enough al khalids come into service.

 

[Gryphon]

So I was thinking that if Pakistan Army had Negotiated with BD and Sri Lanka over the purchase of Al-Zarrar's by even including an AUTO LOADER then we can upgrade our inventory of:

To Al-Zarrar standards and we can buy some T-54/55/59/69 Tanks from BDs and other countries later on to then upgrade them and sell them again. And put more efforts and money over the development and production of Al-Khalid and make it our main stray MBT of about 3000 Tanks in total.

In October 2008, the Bangladeshi Army formed a joint venture with Pakistan to rebuild its Type 59 MBTs to the new Al-Zarrar tank standard. Pakistan will transfer the relevant technology to Bangladesh under the joint venture. About 300 tanks are expected to be modernised under the project, which will be carried out in Bangladesh at the 902 Heavy Workshop of the Bangladeshi Army.

Al-Zarrar Main Battle Tank (MBT) - Army Technology

al-zarrar is basically a platform to train tank crews. its not considered a front-line MBT.

I very much doubt if we have 1,400 al zarrar's. Wikipedia's estimate is also not correct.

Al-Zarrar is the backbone of Pakistan Army's Armour along with Al-Zarrar. Pakistan had 1200 Type 59's and some T 54/55's. 600 Type 59's were upgraded to Al Zarrar while the process to upgrade the rest is on. Type 69 is being gradually put into reserve ..

Besides, PA is planning to upgrade 320 T-80UD's to an unknown standard by forming a joint venture with Russia.. It is believed that Gen. Kayani discussed the matter with his Russian counterpart during his visit to Moscow in October, 2012.

 

[Armstrong]

I wonder whether it would be a worthwhile exercise to look into the possibility of making our fleet of T-54/55 (Type 59s) into Armored Personnel Carriers like the Israeli Achzarit or Infantry Fighting Vehicles like the Russian BTR-T ?

Hmmnnn @nabil_05 @Last Hope @F.O.X @Aeronaut @TaimiKhan ?

 

[alimobin memon]

Al Zarrar is no more the type 59 u knew. It has Been updated to great extent. in other thread About Type 85 I Clearly Explained that Tanks Like Al Zarrar and Type 85, t72 are never mean't to be under estimated. They Can be deployed against any Advanced tank today. But in Urban areas. Why so ? Cause There is very less chance that Tank will have Head on Head Engagement In Urban areas or even Mountanious Desert Region. A crew is trained to Engage the Weak Points of the tank ignoring the Front Armour as the first priority.

Al Zarrar with Modern APFSDS DU round not Publicly announced should be able to penetrate 600mm of Composite and Era armour as old one has 550mm at 2km. Furthermore All the modern tanks side armor don't have Greater than 600mm of Armour including era. and front have 600-780 with Era Armour. Which is indeed in the Range of Al zarrar power.

Al Zarrar can be used in Urban and mountainous regions to flank the tank from the side or back to Engage heavy tanks. of course head on Engagement is suicide for al zarrar.

Now About the protection Al Zarrar has no good protection against An DU round of Any 3rd generation MBT/heavy tank. So with Era it may have some chance.

It is indeed an Medium tech tank so it should have good life still in army.

 

[DARKY]

I have always maintained that difference between MBT gen... should be kept in mind while considering it for certain comparison against certain tank.

Al Zarar as said before is modified Type 59 which is the Chinese clone of old soviet T-54 tank.

While T-72 is completely a new gen. from T-54 ancestor tanks of Soviet army.

The difference between the two tanks for starters... here is what happens when Al Zarar faces RPG-7 against TTP in Pakistan.

I would like to point out the fake representation of sloped armor by thin sheet of metal/steal.. which has little significance more to do with PR.

And this is what happens when T-72 goes out against RPG-7s/29s.

[video]http://www.********.com/view?i=c56_1363981215[/video]

ERA equipped T-72 were able to stand 7-9 hits in Chechnya war II without much casualties and tank lost.

 

[Armstrong]

I have always maintained that difference between MBT gen... should be kept in mind while considering it for certain comparison against certain tank.

Al Zarar as said before is modified Type 59 which is the Chinese clone of old soviet T-54 tank.

While T-72 is completely a new gen. from T-54 ancestor tanks of Soviet army.

The difference between the two tanks for starters... here is what happens when Al Zarar faces RPG-7 against TTP in Pakistan.

I would like to point out the fake representation of sloped armor by thin sheet of metal/steal.. which has little significance more to do with PR.

And this is what happens when T-72 goes out against RPG-7s/29s.

[video]http://www.********.com/view?i=c56_1363981215[/video]

ERA equipped T-72 were able to stand 7-9 hits in Chechnya war II without much casualties and tank lost.

Wait wasn't that Al-Zarrar hit by multiple suicide bombers, IEDs & RPGs & the crew still survived ?

 

[M.harris]

Wait wasn't that Al-Zarrar hit by multiple suicide bombers, IEDs & RPGs & the crew still survived ?

Yes thats the same tank which faces six suicide bombers

 

[Umair Nawaz]

I have always maintained that difference between MBT gen... should be kept in mind while considering it for certain comparison against certain tank.

Al Zarar as said before is modified Type 59 which is the Chinese clone of old soviet T-54 tank.

While T-72 is completely a new gen. from T-54 ancestor tanks of Soviet army.

The difference between the two tanks for starters... here is what happens when Al Zarar faces RPG-7 against TTP in Pakistan.

I would like to point out the fake representation of sloped armor by thin sheet of metal/steal.. which has little significance more to do with PR.

And this is what happens when T-72 goes out against RPG-7s/29s.

[video]http://www.********.com/view?i=c56_1363981215[/video]

ERA equipped T-72 were able to stand 7-9 hits in Chechnya war II without much casualties and tank lost.

Wait wasn't that Al-Zarrar hit by multiple suicide bombers, IEDs & RPGs & the crew still survived ?

Yes thats the same tank which faces six suicide bombers

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-army/27211-how-al-zarrar-mbt-destroyed.html

 

[surya kiran]

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-army/27211-how-al-zarrar-mbt-destroyed.html

Hope you read post #23 in the thread you just pasted. Seems, he is saying the same thing @DARKY is saying ?

Wait wasn't that Al-Zarrar hit by multiple suicide bombers, IEDs & RPGs & the crew still survived ?

yaar the post on #23 seems to say something else. he says 2 were lost to rpg hits and 1 was ied. and seems he was there

 

[alimobin memon]

Wow non of u even know that Non of the Alzarrar in FATA ever have used Explosive reactive armour not even in front ... For your kind information Alzarrar never was destroyed by rpg. Rpg Accuracy is so bad that it cant even penetrate tank at an angle of 30 degree incidence because its not the latest rpg 7. furthermore it was never destroyed by RPG all were IED'd!

Furthermore the Tank as can be seen in the pic has turret part broked out That is not possible by an RPG but an Huge Explosive device and The Tank crew was safe plus the The tank was said to be repairable probably it is repaired.

"Tank is never Destroyed but Disabled or knocked out !" ...

This alzarrar incidence was discussed to death and was found out that it was hit more than 5 times by and rpg at the range of 100m or lesser. Which is Quite and Deadly range for a tank to be busted.

There were Three Theories About how AZ was destroyed...

First that was rejected totally was RPG hit destroyed it ... If you ask me If it cant With stand an rpg AZ project would have been stopped for further upgrades and Bangladesh or sri lanka (I dont remember) exact that which of these countries have selected HIT for AZ standard their tanks...

Second was That After The Ambush of terrorist it was over runned And Demobilized so An AH -1 Cobra used tow destroying tank as well as Terrorists as the tank blasted... (Crew in the beginning Evacuated withdrawing the tank) This was rejected too.

3rd and final was IED incidence By using Motorbikes to Come Closer to tank and destroyed few attempts were crippled but than over runned by many terrorists. hence tank was destoryed but crew was safe... this story is confirmed by the guys who were present their...

There is not tank that can be penetrated by an old single stage rpg today. What's the point of upgrading it to AK standard if it cant withstand an Pathetic Old tech RPG rounds... It aint the RPG 7 but it is some Tandem version or improved version of RPG there are lots of RPG variants .... THe 23 posts says anti tank Rockets not RPG 7 precisely !