Can they do it?

[Keysersoze]

excuseme thinking that a woman cant do a job because one day she will fell pragnent and have chidren is discrimination......a woman can be a fighter pilot and still have children..in her absence another unpragnent woman fighter pilot performs in her place its called maternity leave in the civilized world.
dont forget men have children too only diffrence is they dont have it physically.
and research shows that men also change physically after having children and mentally...

Lets hope there isn't a war whilst she is on maternity leave.....

And having another pilot cover her would require having 2 pilots on the payroll which would cost more....so that theory goes a swirling!

 

[Cheetah786]

Chrome9;81719]Not really, remember this thread is realetd to woman combat pilots in PAKISTAN. Therefore all compromises/suggestions/solutions should be Pakistan culture specific. And it's a known fact in Pakistani society males are usually the sole bread winners in most families.

Iam not to sure which Pakistan are u talking about bud.but females have been part of our society for a while now.biggest example benazire Bhutto.iam 100% sure she was a bread winner in that family.and Pakistani people did vote for her.and now under mushy there is some female minsters.not to mention countless other jobs that are being done by them in Pakistan.
old ways of doing things are part of history not the future.

Though I don't see this a reason why females should be put at a disadvantage or a gender quota be inplace. I advocate more female envolvement in all aspects in Pakistan's society. Though I must admit that the envolvement in front line combat for women is where I havn't yet made my mind up yet. Hopefully at the end of this discussion I might be able to come to a conlusion.

there is a will there is a way.just cause males can do it because i said so.

But what I would definately want to state here is that I strongly oppose Pakistan producing female GDP's just for the sake of it, or to show the western world how "advance", or "civilised" Pakistan is. There is no need to make a political or PR statement, first and foremost These pilots must gain admission through merit alone. After that various other discussions can take place.
Regards..chrome

when i went through school and college in Pakistan.there was this programme called NCC.(not sure if its still there or not.
basically both genders were given small military training.
giving females full chances as males isn't a PR statement.(on day of judgment all will be woken up with there mothers name not fathers)our prophet PBUH.worked for and later married Quraishi widow named Khadijah.iam not teaching religion here to no one.i did this to point towards your comment that Pakistan is doing things for west.we are doing it cause our religion allows us to do so.

and for last thing no one is going to hand over a jet to some one regardless if they are females or males.i doubt very much being a male any air force will just give you the jet to operate unless u no what ya doing.
but females can do the job just as good as males.

 

[nina]

Iam not to sure which Pakistan are u talking about bud.but females have been part of our society for a while now.biggest example benazire Bhutto.iam 100% sure she was a bread winner in that family.and Pakistani people did vote for her.and now under mushy there is some female minsters.not to mention countless other jobs that are being done by them in Pakistan.
old ways of doing things are part of history not the future.




there is a will there is a way.just cause males can do it because i said so.




when i went through school and college in Pakistan.there was this programme called NCC.(not sure if its still there or not.
basically both genders were given small military training.
giving females full chances as males isn't a PR statement.(on day of judgment all will be woken up with there mothers name not fathers)our prophet PBUH.worked for and later married Quraishi widow named Khadijah.iam not teaching religion here to no one.i did this to point towards your comment that Pakistan is doing things for west.we are doing it cause our religion allows us to do so.

and for last thing no one is going to hand over a jet to some one regardless if they are females or males.i doubt very much being a male any air force will just give you the jet to operate unless u no what ya doing.
but females can do the job just as good as males.

you have said it all too right.......i agree.

 

[nina]

Lets hope there isn't a war whilst she is on maternity leave.....

And having another pilot cover her would require having 2 pilots on the payroll which would cost more....so that theory goes a swirling!

women are expensive you know.

no worries about cost main thing is to bring women into jobs the one which has been done only by men in the past.

only way to go is forward there is no other way to go.

all the other issues raised comes under direct discrimination.

 

[Chrome9]

Iam not to sure which Pakistan are u talking about bud.but females have been part of our society for a while now.biggest example benazire Bhutto.iam 100% sure she was a bread winner in that family.and Pakistani people did vote for her.and now under mushy there is some female minsters.not to mention countless other jobs that are being done by them in Pakistan.
old ways of doing things are part of history not the future.

Come on bro, this is a fact of Pakistan that in most households the man of the house is the bread earner. I never actually thought this was up for discussion I always thought it was accepted. I think Benazir Bhutto is more the exeption than the rule.

and for last thing no one is going to hand over a jet to some one regardless if they are females or males.i doubt very much being a male any air force will just give you the jet to operate unless u no what ya doing.
but females can do the job just as good as males

That's the thing If these women pass onto be operatoinal squadrons and pass CCS then I don't want there to be any media hype or show boating parading our "liberalised" Pakistan is. Just like the hype that surrounded the (I think 5) Women who just passed out. We don't need any of that - that's what I mean.
As for who can do the job best. At the end of the day PAF are the ones to decide who are the most physically and mentally prepared. Beacuase it's their tests all the candidates need to pass and their Instructors that need to be convinced.
Again so far I'm not in either camp because no one has presented a strong enough argument to take sides.
P.S Cheetah mate I totally agree that in our religion that in our religion descrimination of women is not tolerated. .
Regards Chrome

 

[foxhound]

Nina - excusme fox hound none of the above points make any sense....

I think their maybe some misunderstanding. I'm not stating that women are not equal as men....only stating that due to biological differences and the extreme social attitudes would cause disadvantages for would be female fighter pilots. No one is stating that they can not do the job. I re-itterate, the biggest drawback for them (and maybe for the Air force) is when they decided to get married or have children?...

1) They will need time off from work (flying duties) if they are pregnant. The G-force can caused damage to the mother and child. Therefore, possible pilot shortage when needed? ALSO THEY WILL DEFINATELY NOT BE COST EFFECTIVE. To train a pilot roughly costs $million plus. If you have trained female pilots who are on maternity leave - in the event of crisis that air component will not be as effective as it could be.

2)The parenting aspect of who will look after the child. Most mothers are considered experts in raising children (early age). In many jobs where women are working with their male counterparts...there is evidence of children been neglected. I.e both parents at work or so. THIS POINT IS TO DO WITH PSYCHOLOGICAL EFFECTS ON UPBRINGING CHILDREN - ON THE CHILD AS WELL AS MOTHER.

MOTHERS ARE MORE PASSIONATE/CONCERNED FOR THEIR CHILDREN THAN AS FATHERS. MOST FEMALE'S START PANICKING ON SITUATIONS SUCH AS THE CHILD NOT COMING ON TIME FROM SCHOOL (compared to the Fathers). THEREFORE FEMALE'S WILL BE ALOT MORE EMOTIONAL WHEN EMBARKING ON A MISSION, SUCH AS DO OR DIE MISSION(WHERE THE RISK OF COMING BACK TO FAMILY IS REMOTE).

3) The prospects of a female being shot down in hostile territory would also be of considerable concern to all concerned (i.e high probabilities of rape). This could be demoralising to the Air Force she belongs to. AS I STATED, PLEASE NOTE THAT ON THE BALANCE OF PROBABILITIES/CHANCES A FEMALE IS MUCH MORE LIKELY TO BE RAPED THAN HER MALE COUNTERPART.

4) Further more, the issues of harmony amongst her peers (too many male chavunists Pigs or so) could cause resentment/friction with the service. Therefore, the overall efficiency of the service. SOCIAL FACTOR AGAIN.

5) another (minor) point is that where you have both sexes working together, there can be a problem or an increase chance of fornication and adultery committed. i.e officers sleeping with others and have caused a discontentment within the ranks. Their are many cases of this happening within the US air force or even the RAF. It is just a point to consider.

6) All male and female are equal....BUT they are both different (biologically) and therefore will have handicaps within the profession.


Furthermore, due to the biological make up of individuals I believe that not all trades are open to all. For instance, In special forces - the vast majority or may I say all are Males (the female is not able to compete on this level equally. she does not have the physical/biological capability to carry the same weights as her male contacts.

Hence, most nations special forces, the Female are not allowed. eg. The following I believe do not recruit females due to their inability to fullfill the required role:

the British SAS
Royal Air Force Regiment Gunners
USA DElta Force/ Green Berets
Royal Navy Royal Marines
Pakistan SSG
Indian Commandos
French Foreign Legion........etc...etc.....


Furthermore, Most or nearly all INFANTRY (close combat) troops do not employ females....again due to the inability to perform as it's male counterparts. No one is stating that women should not work or earn a livlihood/ no one is stating that they are not bread earners. WHAT I'M Suggesting that maybe every TRADE in the MILITARY is not SUITED FOR ALL. IT HAS TO BE COST EFFECTIVE and SHOULD NOT IN ANWAY UNDERMINE THE EFFICIENCY OF THE AIR FORCE.