Can India & Pakistan come out of the spiral of mutual destruction ?

[Paitoo]

Hindus those who believe that Muslims killed 80 million Hindus are idiots.

If Muslim rulers had persecuted Hindus, India wouldn't be a Hindu majority nation.

For Hindus it is not so much about the numbers (which will be debated till apocalypse), but the fact that:

1. It happened
2. It was inflicted by "outsiders"
3. Who had a radically different religion
4. Who stayed behind to rule

History of mankind is essentially the history of Men. Seen through their prism of emasculation, power struggle, "ownership" of women and cultural tussles. As long as men control the narrative and are able to see benefits out of it, very little is going to change.

 

[Akshay89]

For Hindus it is not so much about the numbers (which will be debated till apocalypse), but the fact that:

1. It happened
2. It was inflicted by "outsiders"
3. Who had a radically different religion
4. Who stayed behind to rule

History of mankind is essentially the history of Men. Seen through their prism of emasculation, power struggle, "ownership" of women and cultural tussles. As long as men control the narrative and are able to see benefits out of it, very little is going to change.

What the RSS types imagine to have happened, did not happened.

The British and RSS historians concocted Islamic history of India.

Hindus who were tired of caste system and absurd Brahminical rituals, converted to Islam. These conversions did not occur at sword point.

 

[SIPRA]

For Hindus it is not so much about the numbers (which will be debated till apocalypse), but the fact that:

1. It happened
2. It was inflicted by "outsiders"
3. Who had a radically different religion
4. Who stayed behind to rule

History of mankind is essentially the history of Men. Seen through their prism of emasculation, power struggle, "ownership" of women and cultural tussles. As long as men control the narrative and are able to see benefits out of it, very little is going to change.

Another excellent post.

Virtual/imaginary "Charsi Dumba Karhahi" confirmed.

What the RSS types imagine to have happened, did not happened.

The British and RSS historians concocted Islamic history of India.

Hindus who were tired of caste system and absurd Brahminical rituals, converted to Islam. These conversions did not occur at sword point.

@DrJekyll is not debating, what really happened in the past? He is describing the collective perception of the most of Hindus, about history. Politics is principally governed by the perception, whether true or not.

 

[Paitoo]

Virtual/imaginary "Charsi Dumba Karhahi" confirmed.

Paa ji,
I don't know if you have seen the Youtube videos of Charsi bhai, wherein he promotes his tikkas as having aphrodisiac qualities by constantly referring to them as "mardana khuraak". And when he says that, he has a slight expression of sensual satisfaction on his face, just a subtle one, not overdone. It is very entertaining. He can be an actor.

 

[Akshay89]

Another excellent post.

Virtual/imaginary "Charsi Dumba Karhahi" confirmed.



@DrJekyll is not debating, what really happened in the past? He is describing the collective perception of the most of Hindus, about history. Politics is principally governed by the perception, whether true or not.

Most of the Hindus don't believe that.

BJP wins elections because there is no strong opposition.

 

[SIPRA]

Paa ji,
I don't know if you have seen the Youtube videos of Charsi bhai, wherein he promotes his tikkas as having aphrodisiac qualities by constantly referring to them as "mardana khuraak". And when he says that, he has a slight expression of sensual satisfaction on his face, just a subtle one, not overdone. It is very entertaining. He can be an actor.

I have not seen the video; but I had had the occasion to eat his "Dumba Karhahi", in Peshawar, about 20 years back. It was excellent. Incidentally, it is the same locality, where ancestral houses of both Raj Kapoor and Dilip Kumar are located.

 

[SIPRA]

Most of the Hindus don't believe that.

BJP wins elections because there is no strong opposition.

I would tend to disgree with you. The perceptions, @DrJekyll has laid down, are held by atleast 90% of the elite Hindus. Common Hindu folks are either followers, or indifferent.

These narratives were held by virtually all the key leaders of Pre-Independence INC, except for the possible exceptions of G K Ghokhle, C R Das, Sarojni Naidu, and few others.

These perceptions have nothing particularly to do with extreme Hindu organizations like Maha Sabha, RSS, and likes.

 

[SIPRA]

Ae ki cheez honda?

"Aik humain he ae sahar, neend na aayi raat bhar
Zaanu e shab pay rakh kat sir, saaray chiraagh sau gaye"

 

[Akshay89]

I would tend to disgree with you. The perceptions, @DrJekyll has laid down, are held by atleast 90% of the elite Hindus. Common Hindu folks are either followers, or indifferent.

These narratives were held by virtually all the key leaders of Pre-Independence INC, except for the possible exceptions of G K Ghokhle, C R Das, Sarojni Naidu, and few others.

These perceptions have nothing particularly to do with extreme Hindu organizations like Maha Sabha, RSS, and likes.

What should we do to reconcile with Pakistani Muslims?

What should we do to make the lives of Indian Muslims better?

 

[SIPRA]

What should we do to reconcile with Pakistani Muslims?

What should we do to make the lives of Indian Muslims better?

According to my understanding, nothing much is possible, at least, at this stage. Narratives, which have their roots in deep psyche, don't go away very easily. Individuals, like you, @DrJekyll, @Joe Shearer can play their roles, for whatever is their worth. Of course, these individual acts are highly appreciable. My comprehension of history tells me, that great human catastrophes, inadvertently, bring major changes in human thinking. So, let us await for some such happening. It seems that 1947 was perhaps inadequate.

 

[Joe Shearer]

What should we do to reconcile with Pakistani Muslims?

What should we do to make the lives of Indian Muslims better?

First, I reject the terms you have used, with nothing personal about this rejection; it isn't about your.

Before anything else, it is our duty to ensure that ALL Indian citizens are treated alike; with dignity and respect, and with acknowledgement of their rights as citizens. Nothing else can go before that. Equality in everything, including those unseen rejections that all Indians holding responsible positions know about - the under-servicing of minority-predominant areas with financial offers, bank services, educational and employment opportunities. Equality, also, in seeking housing on purchase or on rent; if any housing society wishes to remain vegetarians only, let it pay additional taxes. If any landlord rejects a tenant, let that landlord pay a hefty fine.

NOTHING is needed to make the lives of Muslim Indians better, other than those exact same things that would make the lives of any Indian citizen better, Muslim or Hindu, western Gujarati or eastern Mizo. That includes the citizens of India living in Kashmir.

As for Muslim Pakistanis, what is there to reconcile with them about? Differences that have been seen have been between the state of India and the state of Pakistan. I have no intention of reconciling with those whom I have never harmed. If they wish to stand aloof, alleging various past crimes, no problem. If the Pakistani citizen steps forward, what is left over?

According to my understanding, nothing much is possible, at least, at this stage. Narratives, which have their roots in deep psyche, don't go away very easily. Individuals, like you, @DrJekyll, @Joe Shearer can play their roles, for whatever is their worth. Of course, these individual acts are highly appreciable. My comprehension of history tells me, that great human catastrophes, inadvertently, bring major changes in human thinking. So, let us await for some such happening. It seems that 1947 was perhaps inadequate.

I hope you are wrong. If my people and my race can forgive the happenings of 47, and live in friendship with Bangladeshis, I hope people at the other end can find it in themselves to do the same.

 

[Akshay89]

My comprehension of history tells me, that great human catastrophes, inadvertently, bring major changes in human thinking.

We can't just let a Hindu-Muslim civil war take place.

This event would worsen Hindu Muslim relations.

 

[SIPRA]

I hope you are wrong.

Sir Jee: I equally pray that I may prove to be wrong.

"Lagda tay naeen, per shaayed"

"Munhasir marnay pay ho jiss ki umeed
Na-umeedi uss ki daikha chaahiye"
(Ghalib)

 

[khail007]

The divide of India was based on religion and now many fold intense than before since the BJP government.
Further, it is solidified due to disputed territories.
Peace could never prevail till solution of so called 'Uttot Aang' although some thinks otherwise.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

The divide of India was based on religion and now many fold intense than before since the BJP government.
Further, it is solidified due to disputed territories.
Peace could never prevail till solution of so called 'Uttot Aang' although some thinks otherwise.

It's more than that. The ethnicities that make up Pakistan were ALWAYS different to those that make up modern day india.