Can all 5 PN subs carry Babur SLCM?

[Shabi1]

And whats the point subs carrying babur?? Even subs bought from Chinese may won't carry such SLCM.


If we buy 6 more then they definitely will share source codes.

Submarines can launch missiles (and cruise missiles) from their torpedo tubes, Pakistan already had the capability as it's submarines could fire the Exocet while submerged. Agosta 90B and the planned 8 Chinese subs are all equipped with 533mm torpedo tubes that can fire missiles. Infact according to wikipedia the Chinese Yuan class AIP submarines that Pakistan has requested can fire the supersonic YJ-18 anti ship cruise missiles.

For submarine launched ballistic missiles you need dedicated missile submarines with VLS but Pakistan does not intend to follow that path since it doesnt need such long range for it's missiles, all its submarines will be multi role attack submarines.

I suggest you do some research on google.

Even with curvature of earth,they will be detected eventually.After that its easy to shoot down.Even an AAA gun can shoot it down with basic radar support in terminal stage.And something like barak-8 is desigend to kill them.Allow due to risky terrain hugging flight some missiles hit the surface during flight and crash as has happened frequently in afghanistan and syria with tomahawks and those warheads are a waste.Moreover the warhead size will be small.Pakistan has limited number of nuke warheads,thus wasting them on baburs is a luxury.A few can be deployed to stretch indian resources and have an additional option,but they will never be a reliable deterrent because they can be shot down.Ballistic missiles will always be the main deterrent because they can't be shot down with reliability.These are just something complimentary- a sideshow,a stopgap ,something to have better than nothing because PN can't afford a real SSBN.If(or when) PN could afford a real SSBN it wouldn't bother with this.

Then it shouldn't bother you and India can rest assured Babur-3 is not a threat.

Tomahawks had been fired in their hundreds there are bound to be some malfunctions. And what about all the Scud missiles that were intercepted.

If a attack submarine can do the job Pakistan doesnt need to invest in a dedicated nuclear missile submarine. Nuclear submarines have more endurance but AIP equipped submarines are quieter. Pakistan's threat is next door so a nuclear submarine is overkill.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Then it shouldn't bother you and India can rest assured Babur-3 is not a threat.

Tomahawks had been fired in their hundreds there are bound to be some malfunctions. And what about all the Scud missiles that were intercepted.

If a attack submarine can do the job Pakistan doesnt need to invest in a dedicated nuclear missile submarine. Nuclear submarines have more endurance but AIP equipped submarines are quieter. Pakistan's threat is next door so a nuclear submarine is overkill.

Its not that it isn't a threat,just that not something of a game changer as it is advertised,and not a proper seaborne deterrent.Ofcourse its a threat,every weapon with the potential to cause damage is a threat.Babur on its own is a big threat because its cheaper than supersonic weapons and thus can be used in numbers and gives pakistan standoff capability which it lacks otherwise due to inability of its air force to carry effective strikes deep inside India anymore.But its not so much of a threat as a nuclear deterrent -because of small warhead size,ability to be shot down and consequently potential for wastage of precious nuke warheads.

Its not overkill and everybody knows it.If it was overkill India would have no need to build pakistan specific sagarika ballistic missiles on arihant class,since we are 'next door',it could just put a nuke tipped navalized nirbhay or brahmos or klub on arihants.We could even quad pack such a missile in a ballistic missile hatch.The primary reason PN opted for a stopgap hybrid option like this is lack of money.If PN had money they would of course go for the ideal option followed by all the major navies - a proper SSBN with ballistic missiles.

 

[YeBeWarned]

recently US launch many CM to Syrian bases , and how many were tracked and bought down ? If India has their Nirbhay ready , CM would be the ultimate Weapon which no one will and can defeat .. but as they don't have their CM ready and Operation so their sorry Arses is on fire .

 

[waz]

I don't believe they can i.e. the 90b models, hence partly the reason for the purchase of the large number of Chinese submarines. I also remember some talk between Pakistani and German defence officials regarding the usage of the 214 for cruise missile launch and the Germans refusing to allow such a mechanism. This was one of the reasons why the 214 deal was dropped.

 

[Safriz]

someone, please tell this retarded TTA Indias newly founded daddy Israel is also using subsonic cruise missiles as sea-based deterrent

F-35 uses SCALP cruise missile as primary weapon and it's subsonic.

 

[amardeep mishra]

I don't believe they can i.e. the 90b models, hence partly the reason for the purchase of the large number of Chinese submarines. I also remember some talk between Pakistani and German defence officials regarding the usage of the 214 for cruise missile launch and Germans refusing to allow such a mechanism. This was one of the reasons why the 214 deal was dropped.

Hi @waz
That is what makes sense considering engineering realities. But then emotional folks here take it as bashing. On a side note, I wonder, folks who have never worked on UAVs, guidance, navigation and control, mission planners etc make gigantic claims based on newspaper, websites etc. Worse there are folks who stoop down to personal insults.

 

[khanmubashir]

Whats the big deal with subs carrying babur?Babur is not a ballistic missile.This is mostly for show ,a decoy/phony underwater deterrent.Unlike ballistic missiles, subsonic cruise missiles are easy to shoot down.No way can Babur attack heavily guarded installations or cities if it has to go up against a layered defence of S-400,Barak-8,Spyder/Akash and finally AAA guns(even AA guns can shoot them down).Launched from sea it will also have to contend with barak-8s of IN destroyers and frigates.Maybe 1 in 10 gets through.Waste of nuke warheads.

Ultimately the main pakistani nuclear strike weapon will remain TEL launched rail road mobile ballistic missiles.

That's why India is most ignorant country in the world
Fyi israel sea detterent is also.slcm based as for.your claim of.barak fyi these terrain hugging cm r very hard to.intercept. judging from recwnr events in Syria and if Barak was really that reliable India wouldn't have gone for s400

That's why India is most ignorant country in the world
Fyi israel sea detterent is also.slcm based as for.your claim of.barak fyi these terrain hugging cm r very hard to.intercept. judging from recwnr events in Syria and if Barak was really that reliable India wouldn't have gone for s400

If USA tomahawk can penetrate joint airdefense of pantser s2-$& your loved fantasy s400 in unified command of Russia then Babar based upon tomahawk have good odds to penetrate yours

Even with curvature of earth,they will be detected eventually.After that its easy to shoot down.Even an AAA gun can shoot it down with basic radar support in terminal stage.And something like barak-8 is desigend to kill them.Allow due to risky terrain hugging flight some missiles hit the surface during flight and crash as has happened frequently in afghanistan and syria with tomahawks and those warheads are a waste.Moreover the warhead size will be small.Pakistan has limited number of nuke warheads,thus wasting them on baburs is a luxury.A few can be deployed to stretch indian resources and have an additional option,but they will never be a reliable deterrent because they can be shot down.Ballistic missiles will always be the main deterrent because they can't be shot down with reliability.These are just something complimentary- a sideshow,a stopgap ,something to have better than nothing because PN can't afford a real SSBN.If(or when) PN could afford a real SSBN it wouldn't bother with this.

Even aaa can easily shlot.em.down sitw basic radra support Why don't u tell that to iraqis serbian and now Russian who couldn't do what u think is very easy to do
And that's why India is most ignorant country in the world

 

[AUz]

Whats the big deal with subs carrying babur?Babur is not a ballistic missile.This is mostly for show ,a decoy/phony underwater deterrent.Unlike ballistic missiles, subsonic cruise missiles are easy to shoot down.No way can Babur attack heavily guarded installations or cities if it has to go up against a layered defence of S-400,Barak-8,Spyder/Akash and finally AAA guns(even AA guns can shoot them down).Launched from sea it will also have to contend with barak-8s of IN destroyers and frigates.Maybe 1 in 10 gets through.Waste of nuke warheads.

Ultimately the main pakistani nuclear strike weapon will remain TEL launched rail road mobile ballistic missiles.

I remember that an indian once made a similar claim and @gambit calmly explained how he was wrong and went in precise details with diagrams, publications, tactics discussion, and scientific literature as to why it is extremely hard, almost impossible, to 'just intercept' upcoming barrage of stealth cruise missiles. Being an ex-USAF instructor, Gambit even told as to why USAF itself considered the mantra of "Oh cruise missiles? They are slow and can be easily intercepted by advance radars/defence systems" to be utterly horsesh!t based on actual tests on the ground challenges and results. That's why U.S still relies on cruise missiles for precise strikes...even in extremely contested environments (Syrian airspace for example)

Regardless, that indian came back again and said the same exact thing and just said that Gambit was wrong and that he was a Pakistani hiding behind US flags

That's what happens when you are a resident of literally the largest open-air toilet/sh!thole of the world with extreme poverty and delusions of some unfounded grandeur. You become an internet joke for the rest of the world. Your post reminded me of this incident....bc no matter what happens, you'd still like to mentally masturbate that oh sea-launched nuclear stealth cruise missile? Oh its just for show!! Its easy to intercept!! No worries...

 

[Maarkhoor]

it could just put a nuke tipped navalized nirbhay or brahmos

You can't put nuclear warhead on Brahmos since it is licensed production of anti ship missile Yakont, secondly just let me know when Nirbhay last time tested successfully?

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

You can't put nuclear warhead on Brahmos since it is licensed production of anti ship missile Yakont, secondly just let me know when Nirbhay last time tested successfully?

Last tested successfully on Nov 2017.And yes,we can put nukes on brahmos if we wanted to.The main reason we don't is because - in SSBNs it doesn't make any sense when you have ballistic missiles instead.In other platforms if we put tactical level nukes on cruise missiles it will play into pakistan's hand and weaken our conventional superiority.Right now we don't have tac nukes,so our answer to a tactical nuclear strike will always be a strategic mass nuclear retaliation which makes use of tac nukes difficult.If both sides field tac nukes,pakistan can believe they can get away with tac nuke strikes on indian armed forces with only a tac nuke strike in return maybe.,a concept of 'limited' nuclear war which we don't desire.

 

[Maarkhoor]

Last tested successfully on Nov 2017.And yes,we can put nukes on brahmos if we wanted to.The main reason we don't is because - in SSBNs it doesn't make any sense when you have ballistic missiles instead.In other platforms if we put tactical level nukes on cruise missiles it will play into pakistan's hand and weaken our conventional superiority.Right now we don't have tac nukes,so our answer to a tactical nuclear strike will always be a strategic mass nuclear retaliation which makes use of tac nukes difficult.If both sides field tac nukes,pakistan can believe they can get away with tac nuke strikes on indian armed forces with only a tac nuke strike in return maybe.,a concept of 'limited' nuclear war which we don't desire.

You can't armed Brahmos aka Yakont anti ship missile even with tactical nuke warhead....

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Even aaa can easily shlot.em.down sitw basic radra support Why don't u tell that to iraqis serbian and now Russian who couldn't do what u think is very easy to do
And that's why India is most ignorant country in the world

AAA can shoot them down provided others detect them.How were the russians unable to stop tomahawks?What losses did russians take?Zero.Russian forces in syria were never attacked.They were prewarned and din't engage any american missiles.Only syrian army engaged them and even in that case at least 1/3rd of attacking missiles either malfunctioned or were shot down.As for Iraqis and serbs,you really comparing their AD network to ours?

You can't armed Brahmos aka Yakont anti ship missile even with tactical nuke warhead....

Yes, we can.Nirbhay,Brahmos,Klub are all nuke capable.And brahmos also has land based strike variants.

 

[Maarkhoor]

you really comparing their AD network to ours?

Iraq certainly have better A.D during first gulf war.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Iraq certainly have better A.D during first gulf war.

Right.Iraqi AD which wasn't even digital is better than S-400,Barak-8,akash and SPYDER.

 

[Maarkhoor]

Right.Iraqi AD which wasn't even digital is better than S-400,Barak-8,akash and SPYDER.

You have S-400? answer me yes or no.....

akash

Aey Kash k hum khoosh mien anay na payen....