Can add 6 LCA Tejas squadrons in 4-5 years - Parrikar

[Dillinger]

Well it could be a warning in disguise to HAL and other agencies to get their act together and ensure FOC and subsequent delivery schedules are not missed. It looks a bit crazy to have an altogether new fighter just to cover up the lost time owing to delays in LCA program. Doesn't make sense either operationally nor economically.

am sorry, didn't know HAL is pushing forward the case of arming Hawks. But again why? All they need to do is concentrate on LCA production which hopefully is in quite matured state (production line pov). Don't think stop gap arrangements will do anyone, any good.

There is nothing definitive on when the LCA mk.2 will finally reveal itself (beyond the 2018 first flight, a dubious claim as things stand now) , there in lies the problem; not with the mk.1 which will sure as rain find its place in the IAF's roster. So, why the RM felt the need to "apply pressure" on HAL is beyond me. A strategic plan (after all the current government is fond of stating that meeting strategic requirements requires suspension of established procedures sometimes, and the LCA is as strategic as it gets, its about the future of the Indian MIC) needs to be developed and put in operation to ramp up production rates. IF we can squeeze 4 squadrons by 2020 (optimistic) then the LCA will find itself on sound footing, let the IAF induct and sure as rain the complaints and whinging will stop.

 

[GURU DUTT]

There is nothing definitive on when the LCA mk.2 will finally reveal itself (beyond the 2018 first flight, a dubious claim as things stand now) , there in lies the problem; not with the mk.1 which will sure as rain find its place in the IAF's roster. So, why the RM felt the need to "apply pressure" on HAL is beyond me. A strategic plan (after all the current government is fond of stating that meeting strategic requirements requires suspension of established procedures sometimes, and the LCA is as strategic as it gets, its about the future of the Indian MIC) needs to be developed and put in operation to ramp up production rates. IF we can squeeze 4 squadrons by 2020 (optimistic) then the LCA will find itself on sound footing, let the IAF induct and sure as rain the complaints and whinging will stop.

well sir LCA MK1 after FOC & current order will get a booster shot of GE414 & AESA based Radar, EW & sensor suite + maybe a few more goodies till the MK2 version is there as MOD is already in talks with few private partners for joint production /assembly of MK1 to speed up production of LCA and make it even better and more cost effective to fill the gaps

 

[Dillinger]

well sir LCA MK1 after FOC & current order will get a booster shot of GE414 & AESA based Radar, EW & sensor suite + maybe a few more goodies till the MK2 version is there as MOD is already in talks with few private partners for joint production /assembly of MK1

The Mk.1 cannot house the 414, the major redesigns needed in the Mk.2 are specifically aimed at enabling the use of the 414 engine. So a MLU engine change is not possible. As to whether a sensor upgrade will occur, I cannot comment with any surety. Yes, it will have the advantage of sporting an advanced integrated EW system. None of this is important though, as the Tejas is right now it is good enough for the job. In fact, if the MoD were to add another 50 double seat LCA's to the projected 40 at the moment we could actually feasibly expand the production line and have fighters capable of serving as crucial LIFTs as well as front-line fighters, they wouldn't even cut into the Mk.2 numbers since they can be shifted to exclusive LIFT service once the Mk.2 comes around. But then this would require biting the bullet.

 

[SpArK]

The Mk.1 cannot house the 414, the major redesigns needed in the Mk.2 are specifically aimed at enabling the use of the 414 engine. So a MLU engine change is not possible. As to whether a sensor upgrade will occur, I cannot comment with any surety. Yes, it will have the advantage of sporting an advanced integrated EW system. None of this is important though, as the Tejas is right now it is good enough for the job. In fact, if the MoD were to add another 50 double seat LCA's to the projected 40 at the moment we could actually feasibly expand the production line and have fighters capable of serving as crucial LIFTs as well as front-line fighters, they wouldn't even cut into the Mk.2 numbers since they can be shifted to exclusive LIFT service once the Mk.2 comes around. But then this would require biting the bullet.

.

Why a GE414 cant replace a GE404?

F-18s were upgraded to 414s.

 

[GURU DUTT]

Why a GE414 cant replace a GE404?

F-18s were upgraded to 414s.

well we can make minor changes as we require as after completing the current orders its not such a big deal and Mk2 & AMCA will be there well before the given time line as both PMO & MOD are taking special care of both MK2 & AMCA project

 

[Dillinger]

Why a GE414 cant replace a GE404?

F-18s were upgraded to 414s.

The super hornet is physically bigger than the original F/A-18 that's why. The F/A-18s themselves have never been upgraded with the 414.

 

[GURU DUTT]

The super hornet is physically bigger than the original F/A-18 that's why. The F/A-18s themselves have never been upgraded with the 414.

your wrong again sir F-18 was super hornet while F/A-18 is the advanced and more stealthier & pwerfull version
F18

F/A18

 

[SpArK]

The super hornet is physically bigger than the original F/A-18 that's why. The F/A-18s themselves have never been upgraded with the 414.

Im not talking about the fighter as a whole.... if both engines have same dimensions and need Zero structural changes, whats preventing it from replacing the engine?

 

[special]

Whilst the pro-activeness is appreciated, I dont think the over-diversification will be. Does he want or the IAF insist on a logistical headache for itself?
@MilSpec @sancho

how it is a logistical problem??? IAF is operation many kinds of fighter jets, each have their purpose.

 

[MilSpec]

Im not talking about the fighter as a whole.... if both engines have same dimensions and need Zero structural changes, whats preventing it from replacing the engine?

I am not sure about the dimensions, usually airframes are oversized and spacers used to shim up the engine.
A bigger more powerful engine even of the same size will need additional air delivery through the suction port, I think mk1 intakes might choke a bigger engine, they will either have to change the intakes, or drill holes in it like the mig 23's were done once upon a time.

 

[sathya]

Im not talking about the fighter as a whole.... if both engines have same dimensions and need Zero structural changes, whats preventing it from replacing the engine?

Small size of tejas with lesser fuel , f414 may reduce the range I think..
If it's easily replaceable we won't be going in for mk 2 without adding any hard points..

Spark I think you know much better than me..
Are you expecting highly technical answer ?


---------------------

Dimensions for GE f404 in20 and F414 ins6 are same according to GE website.. Except inlet diameter

 

[gslv mk3]

I am not sure about the dimensions, usually airframes are oversized and spacers used to shim up the engine.
A bigger more powerful engine even of the same size will need additional air delivery through the suction port, I think mk1 intakes might choke a bigger engine, they will either have to change the intakes, or drill holes in it like the mig 23's were done once upon a time.

There would be no changes in the design of air intakes for mk2 - mk1s inlets were designed for the Kaveri,so the increase in mass flow rate wouldn't be a problem for present design

This is what I've heard.

 

[MilSpec]

There would be no changes in the design of air intakes for mk2 - mk1s inlets were designed for the Kaveri,so the increase in mass flow rate wouldn't be a problem for present design

This is what I've heard.

I respectfully disagree, LCA's intakes resembles intakes of subsonic trainer jets, I do think they would need some tweaking.

 

[GURU DUTT]

well so for a stop gap arrangement why cant we just replace two layers of intake duct's with a larger single layered one and bigger with F/A-18 type with DSI

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

 

[sathya]

After delaying mk 2 for so many years I hope it comes out a full fledged beast..