Cameron doesn't understand Pakistan. Sadly, he is not alone

[Peshwa]

I would say significantly less...with the main guys in bars.....however Pashwa thats why in the Kashmiri thread I say to you that India should not use violence but more diplomacy with the Kashmiri people...because many Mirpuri's have relatives in Indian controlled Kashmir..so when they hear the death's of Kashmiri's...they feel a need to attack India.....its a nature feeling..it is wrong...but that is how they feel. If India used more peaceful means to control the crowd maybe the source of encouraging terroism will decrease...howver this is going off topic.

Agreed....and i replied by saying....

Kill the breeding grounds of these terrorists, cut their funding and moral support by Pakistan to create an environment of peace....

Only then can India-Pak-Kashmir come to resolve this dispite....

thats my opinion....

 

[Peshwa]

Terrorists don't really have any distinations..when all they want is to cause mayhem.....India was a easy target maybe...thats why they chose it.

So then you prove my point....Pakistan should not drag its feet in dismantling India specific terror...
which has been the bone of contention......

 

[GreenStar]

Allowing the likes of Hafiz Saeed to go unabated will only lead to more 26/11.....a phenomenon Britishers know very well....only in the form of Abu Hamza....

did the Indian goverment have any real evidence that Hafiz was involved in the 26/11....If so why haven't the American's said to Pakistan to arrest him.....and he must of had a trial in Pakistan.....the Chief Justice probably thought that the evidence was not strong enough to put him in prison.....

 

[GreenStar]

Kill the breeding grounds of these terrorists, cut their funding and moral support by Pakistan to create an environment of peace....

However that will only work if India changes it's tactics in how it handles its side of Kashmir...furthermore Kashmir has to come to the table....I am not saying that it should go to Pakistan....but it needs to be discussed...other wise the cycle will continue.....People like Abu Hamza were only successful..because they had material to go on....i.e Iraq war..same with India if it stop's killing the Kashmiri's then People like Hafiz will have no material to encourage youngsters to go on. But India needs to play its part....I hear alot around this forum..that India is causing problems in Balouchistan....and are even backing some Afghan elements to fight Pakistan.....This isn't good is it Pashwa if it is true...its not exactly helping the situation is it.

 

[Peshwa]

Pashwa can I ask you a Question...why does the Pakistani goverment and the Indian goverment not come to the table and solve the Kashmiri problem...instead of playing..footsie under the table. Kashmir terror network will only be solved if you talk about Kashmir.....that is the picture which I am getting.

GS....

Indians and Pakistanis are fruit of the same tree.....

Highly irrational, religiously motivated and egoistic.....obviously on an individual basis....We have extremes and anomalies in both....

However India-Pak Kashmir is more of a battle of egos...
Both have spent way too many lives and resources to secure whats theirs wrt Kashmir and also to grab what belongs to the other....

India for the better part of its life was struggling....maybe at times worse than Pakistan.....
Pakistan tried to take advantage......but could not overcome the manpower and depth of India....
Vice versa...India did the same to Pak in 71....took advantage of its weakness....

Now India is in a position of strength......I feel that India feels that compromises are not made from a position of strength especially since Kashmir was legally handed down to them.....thats the Indian ego....along with the major loss of life that went into keeping Kashmir Indiam
The Pakistani ego will not let a larger country dominate....especially one that they got independence from....

Frankly...I dont think the Kashmiris should waste their time.....neither side cares about anything but their ego and "property"....
Peace is the best solution for Kashmiris....NOT India or Pakistan.....

 

[GreenStar]

Pashwa it was nice debating with you....but I think I will doze off to sleep.. but as always its a pleasure to debate with you...hopefully we shall continue the debate tomorrow.

 

[Peshwa]

did the Indian goverment have any real evidence that Hafiz was involved in the 26/11....If so why haven't the American's said to Pakistan to arrest him.....and he must of had a trial in Pakistan.....the Chief Justice probably thought that the evidence was not strong enough to put him in prison.....

Now you're being choosy in your views....

Abu Hamza delivered hate speeches.....you claim British govt didnt do anything.....his followers committed acts of terrorism......British govt to be blamed....

Hafeez Saeed founded a militant org.....LET....LET got banned and now he changes the name of his org to JUD to circumvent this....
He continues his hate speeches that radicalize people in Pakistan..these same brainwashed people commit acts of terror..Shouldnt the Pakistani govt stop this now? Especially when they so badly crave peace at least from their gestures?
Wouldnt HSaeeds speeches create more terrorists?

 

[Gin ka Pakistan]

Marginalizing of Muslim youth should stop in UK else they be exporting Islamic extremism not Pakistan.

 

[GreenStar]

Now you're being choosy in your views....

No I was asking you the question in why he is not arrested....there has to be a reason. Is there proof that he is providing hate speeches...if so then Pakistan should contain him.....my views never change Pashwa anyone who is an instigator of terrorism...i.e suicide bombing needs to be Put down.....I have a lot of experience with these types of groups back in the UK...and I don't like them.....maybe because I Follow the more peaceful Islam....which is Sufism....however the concept of a bomber is wrong in my opinion.

But do you think it is wrong if the Kashmiri's fought the Indian army instead of attacking Indian civilians......I am not saying it is right....but clearly people are in discontent with how India is handling Kashmir....so they want to take up arms.....what is your opinion Pashwa.

 

[Peshwa]

No I was asking you the question in why he is not arrested....there has to be a reason. Is there proof that he is providing hate speeches...if so then Pakistan should contain him.....my views never change Pashwa anyone who is an instigator of terrorism...i.e suicide bombing needs to be Put down.....I have a lot of experience with these types of groups back in the UK...and I don't like them.....maybe because I Follow the more peaceful Islam....which is Sufism....however the concept of a bomber is wrong in my opinion.

Of course there is proof.....I gave you 2 links of the same...

His hate speeches have gone unhindered....This is not the way to provide a peaceful environment for talks....

But do you think it is wrong if the Kashmiri's fought the Indian army instead of attacking Indian civilians......I am not saying it is right....but clearly people are in discontent with how India is handling Kashmir....so they want to take up arms.....what is your opinion Pashwa.

I dont believe the Kashmiris are wrong if they want to air their greivances....however, violence, arson etc is not the way....
They should take up the democratic process....anarchy will not be tolerated!!

My objection is to the armed rebellion Pakistan has been supporting both morally and materially.....
How're we to make the Kashmiris life better when we have armed militants running around causing mayhem?
Why is it that Pakistan is never blamed for putting the Kashmiris through such horrid times?

Anyways Pakistan aside, I feel if the Kashmiris truly want peace and prosperity, they need to take up the democratic process....
The likes of Geelani, Lone etc who claim to be popular, should run for the post of CM against Omar Abdullah etc.
Using this power, they should try to help their community, be on a close footing to India to work towards a progressive Kashmir....

Rolling over for Pak, being on Pak's payroll, etc along with armed militancy will only draw India's ire......
If they want to deal with a country in a strong position like India, they need to make themselves strong....And I dont think they are taking the right approach....

 

[GreenStar]

hey should take up the democratic process....anarchy will not be tolerated!!

And what if that solution....does not solve the issue...what then....obviously the Kashmiri people are not in content with Indian rule.....so is it not best to give them Independence..from both Pakistan and India.

 

[GreenStar]

My objection is to the armed rebellion Pakistan has been supporting both morally and materially.....

Like I said before Pashwa maybe if India came to the table...Pakistan would reconsider...however my opinion is Pakistan does not trust India.....since it spilt Bangladesh...and funded Mukti Bahini...so maybe they want payback.....or maybe like I have read a lot in this forum....India are backing elements in Balochistan....and the consulates in Afghnistan are distablizing Pakistan.....so if that is true India has to stop...otherwise why should Pakistan...maybe that is there agenda.

 

[GreenStar]

How're we to make the Kashmiris life better when we have armed militants running around causing mayhem

Well the past rape cases and killings done by the Indian army doesn't...really help matters. Miltants are only born if there is material to cause there anger to cause mayhem....so India is obviously doing soemthing wrong. What I don't understand is India wants the World to curb Pakistan and its militancy....yet when it comes to the Kashmir issue....it does not bother to get the UN involved....as it claims it's a matter between Pakistan and India. So if maybe India stop's playing cat and mouse...then this problem of terrorists will cease to exists...in Kashmir. That's what I believe.

 

[Patriot]

Well; Pakistan Supported Rebellion and so did India in 1971.Let's not bs about Human Rights and ****.The same **** was going on in Kashmir too but bigger stick matters and India has the bigger.Hell US kills civilians regularly in Afghanistan and they call it collateral damage so i guess we can also call that collateral damage for our larger strategic goals?US fought Civil War with Red Indians to build their country if we used the same violence not accepted thing then US probably would not even exist today.

 

[GreenStar]

Anyways Pakistan aside, I feel if the Kashmiris truly want peace and prosperity, they need to take up the democratic process....
The likes of Geelani, Lone etc who claim to be popular, should run for the post of CM against Omar Abdullah etc.

But that is under Indian rule..which they clearly don't want to be under...you can't have it both ways....you want Pakistan to stop terrorism...fair enough...however you want Kashmir to stay under your rule....even by keeping them hostage...when clearly the population is unhappy.

This scenrio is only benifical towards India not Pakistan......let me tell you Pashwa even if Pakistan curbs these groups such as JUD or LET....the People of Pakistan espically Pakistani Kashmir's will still take up arms..as long as India is running Kashmir with an Iron fist....further you are holding the Kashmiri's under hostage.....when they don't want Indian rule....so what should Pakistani Kashmiri's do...smile and skip along...and that nothing is happening on the other side of the border.....where there relatives are getting killed.

I'm not saying that taking arm's is the best thing......however you need to understand Pashwa that until your goverment changes its stance on how it handles Kashmir.....and comes to the conclusion that Kashmir's are unhappy under Indian rule...then maybe this issue will be solved.