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Burquas banned in Egypt University

WOOOOW !! my brothers and sisters the prophet pbuh never told women tocover their FACE !!!!! only their head and dresss modesly....... but burqa ??? is a culture thing ...it is not islam ...sooo egypt dose iam with them not 2 know egypt is respected in the islamic world 4 islamic education..... soooo stop say that da burqa is islamic:coffee:

Salaam O alaikum

Dear Muslims,

Although it is accepted by the majority of scholars, and even the sahaba (Radi Allah'huan), that the full face covering is NOT obligatory for women, we should respect women who CHOOSE to do it and acknowledge a difference of opinion amongst the Sahaba (Radi Allah'huan) over this issue.

Amongst the Sahaba (Radi Allah'huan) who believed that the full face covering was obligatory was Ibn Abbas, may Allah be pleased with him. We all know that Rasool'Allah (Salllallaho alihey wasalaam) did duah for Ibn Abbas asking Allah to give him understanding of the Qur'an-e-majid.

Therefore, as Muslims we do not condemn the Burqah. We respect it, although we do not grant it the fardh status. Whosoever from amongst the Muslims seeks to ban the burqah is an ignorant and misguided. We seek Allahs guidance for such people.

Jazaak Allah’khair
 
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Salaam O alaikum

Dear Muslims,

Although it is accepted by the majority of scholars, and even the sahaba (Radi Allah'huan), that the full face covering is NOT obligatory for women, we should respect women who CHOOSE to do it and acknowledge a difference of opinion amongst the Sahaba (Radi Allah'huan) over this issue.

Amongst the Sahaba (Radi Allah'huan) who believed that the full face covering was obligatory was Ibn Abbas, may Allah be pleased with him. We all know that Rasool'Allah (Salllallaho alihey wasalaam) did duah for Ibn Abbas asking Allah to give him understanding of the Qur'an-e-majid.

Therefore, as Muslims we do not condemn the Burqah. We respect it, although we do not grant it the fardh status. Whosoever from amongst the Muslims seeks to ban the burqah is an ignorant and misguided. We seek Allahs guidance for such people.

Jazaak Allah’khair

Mash'Allah!! Well said brother. You cover it all. Thanks:tup:
 
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Therefore, as Muslims we do not condemn the Burqah. We respect it, although we do not grant it the fardh status. Whosoever from amongst the Muslims seeks to ban the burqah is an ignorant and misguided.

Do you guys think Islam should evolve with the times?

Not the Quran, obviously, but the customs and traditions. Things that were 'normal' in 7th c. Arabia may not be relevant today.
 
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Although it is accepted by the majority of scholars, and even the sahaba (Radi Allah'huan), that the full face covering is NOT obligatory for women, we should respect women who CHOOSE to do it and acknowledge a difference of opinion amongst the Sahaba (Radi Allah'huan) over this issue.

This sums it all and is definitely the best post yet.
It is not obligatory and in countries in the west where Muslims live, it should not be followed as it is too outlandish and harmful.
However, women should have the choice to chose what they want to follow after doing some research related to Hijab in the Quran and Ahadith by themselves. They can be better judges of what they should do.


I am pretty sure misr will see Revolution soon ...


That Tyrant Dictator ... :(

Yeah! :disagree: has been sitting like Jabba the Hutt on Egypt's beck for the last "30" years no less, :disagree: , and whatta ya know, he has also prepared his crown prince (his son) to take his place if he ever dies that is. :disagree:. What is it with these Muslims and Dictators!!!!! Our religion is SOOO democratic and we allow these tyrants!!!

Actually, this move is probably the dictatorial US-puppet government's attempt to curb the spread of Islamic opposition parties

That is I think the motive behind it. No one will rise against that dictator because theyr'e afraid, this is how Husni Mubrak's goons deal with oppostion:


Sad really sad, the only ones that will rise against him are mainly educated modern Islamists, and to get rid of them he hands out Fatwas through his goons :disagree:.

Why banning burqas?? Those Egyptians are always acting funny.

Whatever those nutt heads at Jamia Al Azhar spill out from time to time, should first be asked from a well qualified Aalim Mufti of one of our Jaamias, Sunni or Shia, atleast ours are more learned and righteous and not nutt jobs like those sitting in Al-Azhar.

If you dont agree with my words and are actually shocked, dont be, after visiting this link and reading it, you will find my words "very mild" !!!!

Breast feeding Fatwa - BBC

:woot:

can you imagine it ???? consider this, your'e mom or sister works in an office and this lune is declaring such BS, believe it or not he is the Sheikh Al Hadith in Al-Azhar, "Sheikh Al Hadith" !!!, :disagree:


That is why they say:

Neem Hakeem, Khatra i Jaan
Neem Mullah(dont remember the actual word) "Khatraa i Iman"


:disagree:
 
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Do you guys think Islam should evolve with the times?

Not the Quran, obviously, but the customs and traditions. Things that were 'normal' in 7th c. Arabia may not be relevant today.

Well,

Everything in Islam is permissible unless proven to be Haraam.
The default setting is halal.

One may not turn something that is permissible into something that is impermissible and vice versa. The burqah is not against Islam and it is in fact a manifestation of Islam for SOME. This is why the Muslims respect it.

However, under some circumstances, even things that are haraam, such as eating pork, can be made permissible in life and death situations. For example, if you are starving and there is nothing to eat except pork - you can consume pork.

So the leeway is there, however it is no to be abused.

Similarly, the burqah can manifest itself as a security concern in some situations, in which case it would have to be removed for security reasons. However, in the context of Egypt banning it - there is no security concern whatsoever. It is a university that has allowed the burqah for several centuries, and burqah-clad terrorists are not roaming around freely around al-Azhar, so this is a clear abuse of the leeway and is an abuse to those who wish to practice Islam as per their understanding.
 
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umairp already answered that: religion is also a choice, at least for adults.
I did see umairp's response, but chose deliberately not to comment on it, because it would lead this topic to an entirely separate direction.

Anyway, since you are also taking refuge behind that argument, then let me respond. The answer is big NO - we do not choose our religion. We are all born into our religion. We are reared and brought up within the mores of that religion. And when we are finally adult enough to make our decision, regarding our religion, we are already brainwashed into accepting all its irrationalities unflinchingly. Only few can call the bluff. So unless, you have converted from one religion to another, on your own volition, under no influence, you haven't really chosen your religion. Your parents had done the job for you and their parents did it for them and so on.

That, religion is a matter of choice, is a convenient myth.

Having said that, my personal view is that Islam asks people, men and women, only to dress modestly; the specific injunction for covering the face is a seventh century Arabian tribal custom. I find it anachronistic and, as I mentioned earlier, impractical in modern society (security, face recognition).

However, the solution is to educate the clerics to phase out the custom instead of making laws against it.
Fair enough.

Who do you suppose establishes stereotypes if not the media?
Who gives the ammunition to 'establish stereotypes'?
 
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Who gives the ammunition to 'establish stereotypes'?

The parnoid people who see no harm in allowing a Christian woman to wear a dress similar to burqa while have some parnoid PIA when a Muslim woman even by choice want to wear it.


Rest hussain and others have explained the status of covering face or not in Islam.

Islam calls upon Women as well as Men to dress modestly.
 
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Similarly, the burqah can manifest itself as a security concern in some situations, in which case it would have to be removed for security reasons. However, in the context of Egypt banning it - there is no security concern whatsoever. It is a university that has allowed the burqah for several centuries, and burqah-clad terrorists are not roaming around freely around al-Azhar, so this is a clear abuse of the leeway and is an abuse to those who wish to practice Islam as per their understanding.

It seems to me that a lot of non-Quranic customs in Islam were simply pragmatic compromises with contemporary Arabic culture and may not be relevant in the modern world. The obvious example is the 'four witnesses' requirement for a rape case. But coming back to the topic, the security angle I mentioned is not just about terrorism, but simple, everyday face recognition.

Store cameras in banks, or even convenience stores, are useless if the person is covering their face. This is also a problem for driver's license and passport photos. Anything that hides the face is simply not compatible with modern society, even in Muslim countries.

Islam is not just a religion, it is a complete way of life and provides guidance for every aspect of daily living. It is important to preserve culture and tradition, but Islam must also adapt with the times, or it will force people to chose between religion and the world, and will lose its relevance. This is especially important for the increasing numbers of Muslims, born and converts, living as minorities in non-Muslim societies.

That, religion is a matter of choice, is a convenient myth.

Nobody's taking refuge behind anything.
Most of us stick to the religion into which we are born but, as adults, we caliberate our degree of adherence to its tenets. The face covering is an optional tenet in Islam and many women chose to abide by it of their own volition. This fact may not suit your simplistic view of the "oppressed Muslim woman", but the reality is far more complicated than the media stereotype. In fact, some of the most ardent hijab wearers are Western converts to Islam.

Who gives the ammunition to 'establish stereotypes'?

What kind of assinine statement is that?

By your logic, Bernie Madoff justifies the stereotype of Jews as money-grubbing swindlers, and OJ Simpson justifies stereotypes of blacks as criminals.

A stereotype takes the actions of a few individuals to make a sweeping generalization about an entire group. The Western media has perpetuated this stereotype as part of its deliberate campaign to demonize all Muslims and Islam.
 
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Many people in Pakistan, whom I respect on other matters, have unfortunately fallen into the same trap, e.g. Nadeem Paracha, Pervez Hoodbhoy, et alia.

I have tremendous respect for people like Pervez Hoodbhoy so if by implying that i fall in to his 'Trap' as you put it... so be it. I'd rather read articles and gather information from someone who has excellent credentials under his belt than some shmuck like Zaid Hamid who has the audacity to come on television and spew his nonsense rhetoric as well. Now as far as Nadeem Paracha goes, yes i read his articles as well because I enjoy reading them, both of them cater to my kind of thought which goes against majority of the way Pakistani's think which is fair enough... I do of course don't agree with him on everything as the guy still hasn't gone past his Zia phobia, but Pervez is in a league of his own.. probably one of the most intelligent and articulate members of the Pakistani Academic community as well as former HEC Chairperson Atta ur Rehman.

So it seems that you take their stream of thought rather negatively which again I have no problem with, but to say that its a trap for ignorant fools like us who do enjoy reading their articles every now than, we don't necessarily look at it as if we're being mislead contrary to what you think about them. :)

Cheers
Harris
 
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Dictating the way people dress is counter productive. I personally don't care about whether someone wears it and there is a minority that wears the niqab. And if they shouldn't be wearing it they should be "convinced" through theological arguments to not wear it. It shouldn't be imposed.
This is again state interference in personal affairs.
 
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Many people in Pakistan, whom I respect on other matters, have unfortunately fallen into the same trap, e.g. Nadeem Paracha, Pervez Hoodbhoy, et alia.

If you leave it to religion it will dictate lives to the extent of livinhg and dying. THere was a practise of sacrificing in India which sometimes involve offering own child for monsoon or things like that. THere are tales about how the son or daughter or whoever getting killed actually offered himself/herself. THe practise was fairly common then, so people thought it their duty to offer themselves.
THat was the religion then. Read the tale of 'Markandeya'.
Do you accept that? A person offering himself for some divine gains?
Human sacrifice - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So will you accept a person shutting herself off for entire life for some moral gains or heavenly gifts? Assuming there was no such incentive mentioned in some god forsaken text written by an interpreter(Correct me if I am wrong, Quran says nothing about that), who would wear it for life? Will you?

THat is why Paracha, Hoodbhoy and I say the same thing. Get rid of the practise. BAN IT!!! This ban should go for atleast two generations. Then we will talk about rights. After people realize what their children have lost or are loosing.

Tell me what you think, Reo
 
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Now i am not a guy who likes state interference when it comes to peoples live, i am a very strong supporter of limited government but there are certain things where the government does need to step in as it is harmful to society as a whole. This Burqa issue is no different than Gun rights.. if your against banning the burqa than you might be against people carrying Guns as well, the same can be said about nudists to. Surely nudists are a minority among us with their own values and beliefs with respect to clothing choices. Were they consulted when the ban was first instituted? What right do we (the majority who wear clothes, including you and I) have to tell nudists that they must wear clothes? Why are “minority rights” reserved for subgroups that fall within predefined constructs?

Its simple because governments tend to make decisions based on rational thought and reasonable realm of government (at least some governments). Now I've said this before many times, i have no problems with women wearing Hijab i just have problems with women wearing Burqa's and Niqabs mostly because of security concerns and that to a legitimate one as well. Adhering to a dress from a primitive tribal society that is simply incompatible with the demands of modern and postmodern life in the 21st century? It gives a women nothing but a false sense of security from male harassment. In fact when a women goes around in a big black niqab or Burqa everyone ogles at how ridiculous it looks.
 
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Limited government, absolute freedom with life etc., are for real free people. We are bound by our religion which itself keeps us servile. How many times does a religious practice came across at a bad timing for a man? Almost everyday we cope with the 'irritant'. We dont feel it because we are 'overseen by GOd' or in other words we are made to believe that we 'ought not feel that' if we are to find 'ultimate happiness'.

Have you watched matrix?
People who are talking in favour of freedom here are saying so not because they are FREE. THey dont say they want to be free to wear that beacause they ARE free. They say that because they are NOT FREE.

Asatoma Satgamaya
Tama Soma Jyotirgamaya!!!

---------- Post added at 07:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:09 PM ----------

^^
Forgive the philosophy :P


But I am serious about the Burqas:agree:
Think about it.
 
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I have tremendous respect for people like Pervez Hoodbhoy so if by implying that i fall in to his 'Trap' as you put it... so be it.

Please read my sentence again. I agree with most things that PH or NFP say, although I find NFP to be a one-trick pony with all his articles eventually boiling down to an anti-mullah rant. Especially PH's views on Pakistan's education system are 100% spot-on.

The 'trap' I was referring to is the Western media assertion that the hijab and headscarf -- not the face covering veil, but even a hijab -- is a symbol of oppression and every woman wearing one must be a fundamentalist. I flatly reject that stereotype and it's unfortunate that people like PH and NFP have bought into it.

THat is why Paracha, Hoodbhoy and I say the same thing. Get rid of the practise. BAN IT!!!

I don't like the face covering veil either, but I do not support a ban. The way to "fix" it is to educate the clerics to phase it out. Governments have no business telling people how to dress, whether it be Turkey, Germany, France, or Egypt.

I also disagree fundamentally when it comes to the hijab or head scarf. Unlike the veil, which is a security concern, the hijab doesn't infringe negatively on society's functioning. It is a symbol of our cultural heritage and women who chose to wear it should do so proudly without fear of being labelled as extremist by judgemental people.

I don't want Pakistan to look like Australia or the US. We have our own culture and there is no need to copy the West in matters of dress code. I would love to see a hijab wearing Pakistani woman accept a Nobel prize in physics, or be the CEO of a multi-billion dollar corporation. Watching Benazir Bhutto wearing the head scarf was a delight, even though she probably grew up without wearing one. We need to shatter the Western media imposed stereotype that wearing a headscarf is a sign of oppression and backwardness.
 
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The parnoid people who see no harm in allowing a Christian woman to wear a dress similar to burqa while have some parnoid PIA when a Muslim woman even by choice want to wear it.
Apples and oranges. A Christian woman wears ‘a dress similar to burqa’ (called Habit) when she has renounced the material life and has chosen ‘monasticism’ i.e. a life of a monk. An ordinary faithful doesn’t have to wear that in her day to day life. I believe, I am not sure though, that a Christian woman is required to cover her hair during certain rituals.

The point is, the Habit and head covering are restricted to exceptional circumstances and very limited in their application. Unlike Burqua/Hijab.

Try again.
Islam calls upon Women as well as Men to dress modestly.
My point continues to stand. If you are ready to go by someone else’s idea of modesty, all in the name of religion, why then, is the directive of the State, in the same issue, unacceptable? This question continues to remain unanswered.
 
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