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Burqa fines:Muslim pledges to pay 'burka fines' for Muslim women

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Just got it in an email from someone. dont know if true.


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France could ban burkhas by the end of September after a series of parliamentary votes was scheduled to begin.

Deputies, or members of the lower house, are tomorrow likely to approve the measure outlawing face-covering veils despite outrage among the country's 5million Muslims.

Now a French tycoon is setting up a fund to help Muslim women pay 'burka fines' for hiding their faces in public.

Muslim businessman Rachid Nekkaz has today pledged to sell off 1million euros (£840,000) worth of property in Paris for the fund.


In an open letter published in national newspapers, he said a burka ban was unconstitutional and any woman fined for hiding her face could come to him for help.

The ban could be ratified in September when Senators are almost certain to approve the ban which has received overwhelming support from voters.

There was little resistance among lawmakers today as they debated the bill that proposes to fine wearers £140 and imprison men who force their wives to put on the outfit.

But the ban could be shot down by France's constitutional watchdog or the European Court of Human Rights.

That could dampen efforts under way in other European countries toward banning the veils.

It would also be a humiliation for President Nicolas Sarkozy's conservative government, which has devoted much attention to a bill that would affect only an estimated 1,900 women in France.

The main body representing French Muslims says face-covering veils are not required by Islam and not suitable in France, but it worries that the law will stigmatize Muslims in general.

The niqab and burkha are widely seen in France as a gateway to extremism and an attack on women's rights and secularism, a central value of modern-day France. Critics say a ban is a cynical ploy to attract far-right voters.

The government has struggled - and failed, some legal observers say - to come up with a strong legal basis for a ban.

In March, France's highest administrative body, the Council of State, warned that it could be found unconstitutional. It rejected possible legal justifications one by one, including the French tradition of secularism, equality for women, human dignity and concerns about public security.

In the end, the government's central legal argument is that covering one's face doesn't square with French values.

Life in France is 'carried out with a bare face,' Justice Minister Michele Alliot-Marie said last week, opening debate at the National Assembly.

As legal reasoning, she invoked the notion of public policy doctrine, a country's moral and social rules.

Face-covering veils 'call into question the idea of integration, which is founded on the acceptance of the values of our society,' Alliot-Marie said.

The legislation would forbid face-covering Muslim veils in all public places in France, even in the street.

It calls for £140 fines or citizenship classes, or both.

The bill is also aimed at husbands and fathers who impose such veils on women and girls.

Anyone convicted of forcing someone else to wear the garb risks a year of prison and a £25,000 fine - with both those penalties doubled if the victim is a minor.

Officials have taken pains to craft language that does not single out Muslims. While the proposed legislation is colloquially referred to as the 'anti-burkha law,' it is officially called 'the bill to forbid concealing one's face in public.'

It refers neither to Islam nor to veils - leading to an often surreal disconnect between the text and discussion in parliament about it. While officials insist the law against face-covering would apply to everyone, not just Muslims, they cite a host of exceptions, including masks for health reasons, for fencing, for carnivals and festivals.

Legislator Berengere Poletti, of Sarkozy's conservative party, argued that women in such garb 'wear a sign of alienation on their faces' and 'must be liberated,' even if they say the apparel is their own choice.

Communist Andre Gerin, who also supports a ban, said that 'talking about liberty to defend the wearing of the full veil is totally cynical - for me, the full veil is a walking coffin, a muzzle.'

Socialist Jean Glavany, one of the few lawmakers to offer stinging criticism of a ban, said dwelling on questions of French identity and whether burkhas are welcome in France 'is nothing more than the fear of those who are different, who come from abroad, who aren't like us, who don't share our values.'

He was also one of several lawmakers to question the bill's 'judicial fragility.'

To address that widespread concern, the conservative majority has taken the unusual step of asking the Constitutional Council watchdog to examine the bill once it passes parliament - a move usually made by opponents of legislation.

Down the road, the law could face another challenge at the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg, where decisions are binding.

In February, the court shot down a Turkish decision that convicted dozens of people for wearing religious clothing in public.
 
Reported by Daily Mail. For me, it's false until proven true :)

Seriously though, let's see how the issue turns out.
 
wow no hate comments by pakistani members against the french...
& if it'd happened in india,i think anti-india comments should have flourished right from the word go!!!

:) Why dont you take up Indian flag instead of relying on those ones in your ID
 
:) Why dont you take up Indian flag instead of relying on those ones in your ID

Hi Jana
He was a small candidate for elections but nobody knows him
he needs to make a "free" advertisment that people know him

a few weeks ago i just read he said he would give 100 000 euros
for the deputies to teach them the constitution
lol
 
If a terrorist man (of any religion) wears a burqa and hides bombs in it, how to catch him? probably thats why french want the ban.
 
By the way majority of France's Muslims voted to Ban the Burqa as well not just the French officials... and if your going to go against the majority of the votes than you clearly don't understand how democracy works.

In France by law you are not allowed to show wearing religious symbols. They had a massive revolution overthrowing the Religious Monarchy of King Louix the XVI and letting the non religious republican party come into power.

The bill passed France's national legislature and was signed into law by President Jacques Chirac on 15 March 2004 and came into effect on 2 September 2004, at the beginning of the new school year. The full title of the law is (Loi n° 2004-228 du 15 mars 2004 encadrant, en application du principe de laïcité, le port de signes ou de tenues manifestant une appartenance religieuse dans les écoles, collèges et lycées publics) (literally "Law #2004-228 of March 15, 2004 concerning, as an application of the principle of the separation of church and state, the wearing of symbols or garb which show religious affiliation in public primary and secondary schools").


If you are going to go against what their laws are you might want to move to another place...If the drinking age in the Untied states is 21 years old and some 19 year old French guy goes and demands the government to bring down the age limit to 19 you think the Government is going to do it? NO ...Muslims need to stop changing laws everywhere they go and than you wonder why the Europeans are sick and tired of Muslims everywhere. How about some French dude comes to Pakistan and DEMANDS that we have alcohol made legal and available in the khokas selling down in the street...

Plus the Burqa as a sign of liberation cracks me up everytime.. its such a lame argument by right wing conservative women who think they are 'liberated' because they wear and they 'choose' to wear a burqa... something which the men enforced on them way back in the days in the first place.

Let me be clear about one thing that I agree 100% that "forcing" changes not always is "right", and I certainly see your point in the "picture of the western imperalist arrogance".But this drawing of this historic religious,cultural political border/ line can be detructive in moving the world forward. Another point is that the so called west today concists of westernized people(also muslim women) from all ideologies, cultures,and religions. They can vote , stand up,choose, discuss and have opinions like here in this forum but Do we listen to the "votes" in favor of this ban that comes from muslim women, or is that politically incorrect? Are we more concerned about our "populistic" viewpoint, than taking actions for those in deep need for protection and a safe human life Jana?
 
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If a terrorist man (of any religion) wears a burqa and hides bombs in it, how to catch him? probably thats why french want the ban.
There were reports that taliban trying to put bombs in women breasts.....So now you'll give authority to police to press anyones boobs???????
 
There were reports that taliban trying to put bombs in women breasts.....So now you'll give authority to police to press anyones boobs???????

:rofl::rofl:

Even if the Islamic Sharia abiding Taliban put bombs in their women's boobs, in sensible countries, it would probably be the policewomen who would will be doing the boob pressing.....
 
By the way majority of France's Muslims voted to Ban the Burqa as well not just the French officials... and if your going to go against the majority of the votes than you clearly don't understand how democracy works.

In France by law you are not allowed to show wearing religious symbols. They had a massive revolution overthrowing the Religious Monarchy of King Louix the XVI and letting the non religious republican party come into power.

The bill passed France's national legislature and was signed into law by President Jacques Chirac on 15 March 2004 and came into effect on 2 September 2004, at the beginning of the new school year. The full title of the law is (Loi n° 2004-228 du 15 mars 2004 encadrant, en application du principe de laïcité, le port de signes ou de tenues manifestant une appartenance religieuse dans les écoles, collèges et lycées publics) (literally "Law #2004-228 of March 15, 2004 concerning, as an application of the principle of the separation of church and state, the wearing of symbols or garb which show religious affiliation in public primary and secondary schools").


If you are going to go against what their laws are you might want to move to another place...If the drinking age in the Untied states is 21 years old and some 19 year old French guy goes and demands the government to bring down the age limit to 19 you think the Government is going to do it? NO ...Muslims need to stop changing laws everywhere they go and than you wonder why the Europeans are sick and tired of Muslims everywhere. How about some French dude comes to Pakistan and DEMANDS that we have alcohol made legal and available in the khokas selling down in the street...

Plus the Burqa as a sign of liberation cracks me up everytime.. its such a lame argument by right wing conservative women who think they are 'liberated' because they wear and they 'choose' to wear a burqa... something which the men enforced on them way back in the days in the first place.

Let me be clear about one thing that I agree 100% that "forcing" changes not always is "right", and I certainly see your point in the "picture of the western imperalist arrogance".But this drawing of this historic religious,cultural political border/ line can be detructive in moving the world forward. Another point is that the so called west today concists of westernized people(also muslim women) from all ideologies, cultures,and religions. They can vote , stand up,choose, discuss and have opinions like here in this forum but Do we listen to the "votes" in favor of this ban that comes from muslim women, or is that politically incorrect? Are we more concerned about our "populistic" viewpoint, than taking actions for those in deep need for protection and a safe human life Jana?


My only concern is human rights and right to wear whatever one wants. I have no issue if anyone wants to roam naked similarly i advocate excerising my right to wear whatever i want be it burqa or the skirt. Since these Western, European countries cry loud and claim loudly that they support freedom of expression and human rights hence the onus is on them ensure my right to wear whatever i want.


Now coming to security concerns then no one is denying that, but its strange that in advanced/developed and much secure countries like France or US anyone can carry a bomb in a burqa and could slip away from strict security system well thats idiotic.
 
There were reports that taliban trying to put bombs in women breasts.....So now you'll give authority to police to press anyones boobs???????

:sick::sick: and the police after doing that will find the bomb in their @$$
 
My only concern is human rights and right to wear whatever one wants. I have no issue if anyone wants to roam naked similarly i advocate excerising my right to wear whatever i want be it burqa or the skirt. Since these Western, European countries cry loud and claim loudly that they support freedom of expression and human rights hence the onus is on them ensure my right to wear whatever i want.


Now coming to security concerns then no one is denying that, but its strange that in advanced/developed and much secure countries like France or US anyone can carry a bomb in a burqa and could slip away from strict security system well thats idiotic.
here the talk is not security matter
but from a French culture point of view:
1/ equality between men and women
2/ identity: people are used to see people face when they speak or see in the street.

a democracy is not a place where you can do whatever you want
this is a single freedom idea
but about this last point: we all know the extremists behind the people who wear burqa
they insult the country here, they deserve what they get. i hope they will be kicked out of here. you know why? because they give a very bad picture of our religion.
 
here the talk is not security matter
but from a French culture point of view:
1/ equality between men and women
2/ identity: people are used to see people face when they speak or see in the street.

And tomorrow they will force women to be naked in summer as men can go naked completely so that there is equality between men and women ??

This criteria or excuse they use for equality is silly and laughable. I would like to see more equality between the genders in terms of salary, jobs, opportunities in every field than demonstrating it only in dressing because thats easy and can be done anytime voluntarily instead of forcing it

a democracy is not a place where you can do whatever you want
this is a single freedom idea
but about this last point: we all know the extremists behind the people who wear burqa
they insult the country here, they deserve what they get. i hope they will be kicked out of here. you know why? because they give a very bad picture of our religion.

Not everyone who wears burqa is extremists neither extremists are behind every burqa-clad woman.

If so then it means all those burqa-clad Westerner men arrested in Pakistan are also part of extremism then.
 

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