Burqa - A Security Challenge?

[khurasaan1]

Actually no, let me point out the precise thing that the Quran says extend the Khimar to cover the Jayb (breasts). The reason people say hair must be covered is because the Khimar is a lose cloth that is traditionally worn to cover the breasts, but is mostly also covering he hair - but you can have non-hair covering Khimar since Khimar means cover that and can be also a table cloth. So the Quran specifically says Cover the Jayb, the breasts. Not hair, but some people extend it to mean just that.

This is Ayat 31 of Surah Nur. Please look it up yourself.

Do U understand more Quran than Rasool Allah and his Sahabah and the Auliya-e-Allah..... go and read prophet PBUH explanation about the women Zeenat and Hijab...that is more accurate than anybody of us trying to waste time debating with u.....Cuz U need real guidance.....

 

[khurasaan1]

How wonderful that not one of you "Islaami" folks have stepped up to the challenge of quoting from the Quran. Maulvi sahab ne bass jo kehdia usko sach maanlia... Try to understand Islam rather than just follow it.

You must demonstrate you have the intellect of a teacher before smart people can sign up into your following. Otherwise be content with your students of mindless zealots.

Its so sad that U cant even translate Quran and U trying to pose that U know so much about that. The Ayat I quoted gives the exact answer for all ure useless dabte wasting the pplz time on the forum.....

 

[laiqs@mi]

The problem arises when you people are not able to understand simple message. Ooh bhai, keeping beard is the order of Rasool e Akram (s.a.w.), no doubts.

These mullah has limited islam to just two things, for men keeping beard, and for woman rapping up. They don't have vision of islam beyond that. Even bacha bazi in madressas is permissible for them.

hope you havn't been in madrasa.
but that shows your mental level .

 

[Awesome]

Its so sad that U cant even translate Quran and U trying to pose that U know so much about that. The Ayat I quoted gives the exact answer for all ure useless dabte wasting the pplz time on the forum.....

Tell me your translation? My translation is word for word, tell me how you're understanding it?

---------- Post added at 06:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:07 PM ----------

Do U understand more Quran than Rasool Allah and his Sahabah and the Auliya-e-Allah..... go and read prophet PBUH explanation about the women Zeenat and Hijab...that is more accurate than anybody of us trying to waste time debating with u.....Cuz U need real guidance.....

What is there to understand more? Its not a riddle, its written in simple Arabic. Do this, don't do that, simple. Allah is so specific in this Ayat that there should be no doubt... Read and there is your answer... Masla is you are not reading what is right in front of you. It's not my interpretation or anything its written clearly. All you have to do is read and not blindly follow some Mullah ji.

 

[Awesome]

AA: You are trying to peel away hundreds of years of zealous dogma and philosophical ossification, and this can only be done layer by layer before the scab is removed, and the golden traditions of Islam during its ascendance can be freed. Throwing verses back and forth is not going to achieve much, for it is easy to out-demagogue you, but you do have logic and reasoning on your side to counter it. Please be careful lest you be declared a murtad.

I can just throw out as much as factual information out there (verifiable with a simple google) and then hope for the best. These Islami people have never spent any time in their life thinking about why things are the way they are. Whatever they've been told from their baray is just etched in stone.

Moreover as somebody mentioned Islam doesn't begin and end with the Hijab. You need to first become a good human being, which millions of Muslims today are not, especially in Pakistan.

One of the biggest evils we commit is the curbing of freedom and to top it all off its supposed to be not a big deal. Most other social ills emanate from the lack of freedoms. Even terrorism, is a symptom of the larger disease "lack of freedom". If your people can't have a voice and can't disagree and change the course of their own lives through discourse, then that will lead to violent expressions like terrorism or dictatorship. Both symptoms very common in Pakistan.

How easily the Islami people are lamenting the liberal leaders as if Maulvi sahab toh choochay kaakay thay jinho ne Pakistan ki tareekh main koi role hi nahi play kia abhi tak, bicharay miskeen kahinke.

The reality is that there are enemies of freedom on both sides. Imran Khan pointed it out very well that Zardari n Co are not liberal at all. How do you become liberal? By drinking wine and having promiscuous sex? Liberalism lies in granting freedoms all around which includes freedom to practice religion, freedom of speech, small to medium government and civil rights of a citizen. If Mullahs were to be believed we're all just making a stink here to turn Pakistan into a land of rampant sex (given the birth rate, its already very well happening) and downplay the entire role of freedom.

In reality the people they are lamenting are a creation of the same nonsense they had perpetuated, utter lack of freedom. The slogans are just different otherwise there is little difference in the actual benefit to society that can be brought forward by a Maulvi sahab or a Zardari.

 

[Zarvan]

Lolz....i have just read muse's post and realized that the reply i have typed for you is not going to have a pinch of an effect but here goes.

1. Can you please guide mislead souls like me by explaining what clothes Islam has forced Muslims to wear (Please pin point and name clothing items).
2. Masjid-e-Zarrar was not a mosque? Please read Islamic History.
3. Is a Muslim not a Muslims without a beard? Are the jewish Rabbi's who carry beards better then Muslims who don't?



Are you following Muslim culture? You have alleged something against me without knowing who i am, without proper proof and without investigating which in Islam is called a "Tohmat" and you know what the punishment of Tohmat is?

Prophet Mohammed (S.A.W) declared, If a person levels an allegation against a believing man or woman for an act, which he/she has not done, then on the Day of Judgment, Allah, the Almighty, shall put him on a piece of fire until he is chastised for leveling that allegation.


I have nothing further to say on this topic

Mr Islam clearly tell you how to cover Hijab for women in Islam is to cover her whole body except her feet and hands and her clothes should not be see through or tight or like men or like kafirs these are things told by the PROPHET OF ALLAH SAW and ALLAH himself and they know what is perfect for women so Muslims have to follow them not some seculars who are afraid of Islam and by the way Islam is the fastest growing Religion in the world and 2/3 of those converts are women who fully cover themselves up

---------- Post added at 08:24 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:22 AM ----------

What about the eyes? do eyes not attract men?? whats next after the eyes?? Big black cardboard box?? It will never stop. Thats how much these people are scared of reality.

What orders of ALLAH are his orders you can't challenge them and as for eyes women should cover her self up according to Islam and men should do what they are asked ALLAH knows better than you and everyone on this forum

 

[Tiger Awan]

Moreover as somebody mentioned Islam doesn't begin and end with the Hijab. You need to first become a good human being, which millions of Muslims today are not, especially in Pakistan.

Hijab is a step towards becoming good Muslim. Or you want to say those who wear Hijab cant become good Muslims???

---------- Post added at 09:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:27 AM ----------

What is there to understand more? Its not a riddle, its written in simple Arabic. Do this, don't do that, simple. Allah is so specific in this Ayat that there should be no doubt... Read and there is your answer... Masla is you are not reading what is right in front of you. It's not my interpretation or anything its written clearly. All you have to do is read and not blindly follow some Mullah ji.

There are many Hadees written in simple Arabic. And if you read them you will come to know how sahabiya acted in this manner.

 

[Awesome]

Hijab is a step towards becoming good Muslim. Or you want to say those who wear Hijab cant become good Muslims??

What I'm saying is that those who choose not to do Hijab can be good Muslim as well and those who choose to do Hijab can be bad Muslims as well. Pakistan main zyada tar log Hijabi hain, are most of them good people? Jhoot, loot kasoot, corruption, chori, katal, rape bhi yehi log bethay kar rahay hain. So its literally a meaningless step unless you have gained a control over your all other vices.

 

[Zarvan]

What I'm saying is that those who choose not to do Hijab can be good Muslim as well and those who choose to do Hijab can be bad Muslims as well. Pakistan main zyada tar log Hijabi hain, are most of them good people? Jhoot, loot kasoot, corruption, chori, katal, rape bhi yehi log bethay kar rahay hain. So its literally a meaningless step unless you have gained a control over your all other vices.

Mr Asim if the are breaking the rule of ALLAH how on earth they can be good Muslims? Muslims is the one who follow orders of ALLAH and if they are not following the orders of ALLAH how they can be good Muslims?

 

[Awesome]

Mr Asim if the are breaking the rule of ALLAH how on earth they can be good Muslims? Muslims is the one who follow orders of ALLAH and if they are not following the orders of ALLAH how they can be good Muslims?

How can rapists be good Muslims? How can Jhootay bhi good Muslims? How can cheater, looters, killers, the corrupt all be good Muslim? All characteristics very commonly found in Pakistani Maulvis.

Musalmaan has to be a good human first your Islam is that a Musalmaan has to be a hijabi and namaazi first. It sounds more like Catholicism than Islam, where you can do whatever then go to the confession box and say "Forgive me father, for I have sinned" and sab maaf.

Challenge Muslims to be a good human being first.

 

[Zarvan]

How can rapists be good Muslims? How can Jhootay bhi good Muslims? How can cheater, looters, killers, the corrupt all be good Muslim? All characteristics very commonly found in Pakistani Maulvis.

Musalmaan has to be a good human first your Islam is that a Musalmaan has to be a hijabi and namaazi first. It sounds more like Catholicism than Islam, where you can do whatever then go to the confession box and say "Forgive me father, for I have sinned" and sab maaf

Challenge Muslims to be a good human being first.

Sir Rapist Jhoota fraud are also not good Muslims they are also bad Muslims but still wearing Hijab is the orders of ALLAH and if you are not following the order of ALLAH you are not a good Muslim and Namaz is Farz and leaving it is kufr man you need to study Islam and Sir concept of forgiveness in Islam is that you ask ALLAH for forgiveness and than try your best to not to do that sin again and Sir if you are a good Muslim you are a good Human because this so called values of humanity came from religion the religion which was first give to us by HAZRAT ADAM PBUH and completed by HAZRAT MUHAMMAD SAW that is Islam follow Islam you will be good and best humans

 

[muse]

Asim


You really need to visit those ideas Asharite versus Mutazalite with regard to the role of reason and how good, bad and right and wrong can be arrived at - the above response is a classic - look at it's concerns with good, bad and right and wrong - notice that to the respondent, right and wrong and good and bad, are the substance of what he says are God's "orders" - that is to say, discern right and wrong and good and bad without reference to the "orders" is meaningless.
So long as you are willing to accept the basic hypocrisy of the position, all is good - notice the difference between "bad Muslim" and Sin - the latter reserved for those who refuse to accept hypocrisy.

 

[muse]

While the thread was about the security challenge the Burqa represents, it is clear that the challenge itself, for some (we all know who they are), has become objection to social activism, to conscience -- and for our friend Asim, we invite him to note that the beloved of God, did not need sanction of Quran, to decide between good, bad and right and wrong, for he knew this using his reason and his conscience as his guide, before the Word was revealed. :


The Prophet as a social activist
By Nilofar Ahmed | From the Newspaper
(6 hours ago) Today

SOCIAL activism by citizens is often looked upon as a modern-day phenomenon. What is not commonly known is that the Prophet of Islam (PBUH) started his social activism in his youth, much before his declaration of prophethood.

The deeds of the Prophet, even before that time, were in accordance with his noble character and the teachings which he later received. One of the major aims of his career was social reform. Even before Islam, the rite of Haj was observed at the Kaaba, and war was forbidden in that sacred month.

Once when this ban was violated and a visiting tribe’s members were looted and their local protector killed, a war broke out.

The war ended according to an agreement known as the Hilf-al-Fudul. According to M. Akhtar Muslim, in Quran aur Insani Huquq (‘The Quran and human rights&#8217, around the year 586 CE, another trader visiting Makkah was deprived of his goods without being paid. He cried out for help. With regard to this, Dr M. Hamidullah writes in Muhammad Rasulullah (‘Muhammad the Prophet of Allah’) that Al-Zubair, the head of the Prophet’s family, convened a meeting. In this meeting, in which the Prophet took part as a young man, it was decided to bring a group into action under the revived Hilf-al-Fudul.

According to some scholars ‘fadal’ also means ‘right’, the plural of which is ‘fudul’. Therefore, one of the meanings of this could be, ‘the agreement for the protection of rights’. The group’s activists pledged to come to the help of anyone who had been wronged in Makkah, without discrimination, to favour the weak and downtrodden against their powerful persecutors. The tribes of Taim, Zuhra, Muttalib and Hashim took the oath for this agreement.

The important objectives and clauses of the Hilf-al-Fudul were as follows: lawlessness would be done away with; security of the travellers and newcomers would be ensured; victims of cruelty would be helped regardless of whether they were residents of Makkah or visitors; and the powerful persecutors would be stopped from being unjust to the weak. Dr M. Hamidullah in Rasul-i-Akram ki Siyasi Zindagi (‘The political life of the Prophet&#8217 describes the oath as: “We swear by God that we will together become one (strong) hand. This hand will remain by the side of the weak and will continue to be raised against the strong and the unjust until the persecutor returns to the persecuted his right. This will remain so until the sea keeps the seashells wet and the hills of Hira and Thabir remain in their place. There will be equity in our society.”

The last sentence can mean that even the most humble of citizens would be able to challenge and demand redress from the most powerful. Only a handful of tribes participated in the Hilf-al-Fudul, yet it was a revolutionary agreement, the fundamental principle being non-alliance. Previously, all help had been given on the basis of tribes and the pacts made with them.

In this pact, it had been agreed that anyone and everyone who had been wronged, could ask for help. They went so far as to say that even those strangers and travellers who belonged neither to Makkah nor to any of its tribes would be eligible for help.

Previously, travellers were an open target for persecution. Not only were they robbed, but often their wives and daughters were taken away from them forcibly.

Another reason for its being a revolutionary agreement was that the Hilf-al-Fudul was not based on social class. Anyone who had been wronged, whether he was a free person or a slave, rich or poor, was eligible for help. Through this agreement, to a large extent Makkah became safe for the weak, the persecuted and strangers. The activists, acting with great speed, saw to it that the person who had been wronged was given back all that had been taken away from him forcibly.

Very soon, powerful thugs, including Abu Jahal, started to fear reprisal from the activists. The Makkans can be truly proud of the fact that at the time when the whole world was steeped in darkness and injustice, these conscientious activists were able to provide free protection and justice to the weak and the helpless through their humanistic ideals. In trying to create some kind of law and order in Makkah, the activists of the Hilf-al-Fudul were really helping to formulate some laws based on the concept of modern-day human rights. Dr M. Hamidullah says that the law of Islam in its early phase was the customary law of Makkah until such time as parts of it were specifically amended or abrogated. The principles of the Hilf-al-Fudul can safely be said to be a part of the law of Islam.

Even though many of the participants of the agreement remained non-Muslim, the Prophet kept acting on it after his declaration of Islam. He is reported to have said later: “Even if red camels were given to me in exchange for the Hilf-al-Fudul, I would not accept them.” This agreement can also be looked upon as the beginning of the attempt to codify laws and enforce a policing system with the objective of establishing peace and equity through practical social activism.

The pact also gives Muslims a precedent for the moral responsibility of all citizens to protect the weak and to speak for them, to critique the rulers and the powerful and the concept of establishing citizens’ groups that advocate and lobby for social rights.

The writer is a scholar of the Quran and writes on its relevance to contemporary issues.

nilofar.ahmed58@gmail.com

 

[S.M.R]

hope you havn't been in madrasa.
but that shows your mental level .

Thank god, i haven't been to madressas. One of my close relative is running a school, the students coming from madressas tell what happens there with them.

 

[muse]

SOCIAL activism by citizens is often looked upon as a modern-day phenomenon. What is not commonly known is that the Prophet of Islam (PBUH) started his social activism in his youth, much before his declaration of prophethood.

So the man who9 would become the prophet, did all of this, without "Orders" of Allah, After all, he did all of this before he came to the knowledge of Islam, and he did all of this even as he did not even know the meaning of the word Muslim?


And a lesson for those of us who hide, hoping that by not confronting, they may make things better

Very soon, powerful thugs, including Abu Jahal, started to fear reprisal from the activists.