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Build relations with Israel to counter India: Musharraf

Here is a good question. India is buying weapons from Russia and Pakistan just improved it's relations with Russia. Has this improvement stopped Russia to sell weapons to India?
Nope Russia still sells them weapons. So having relations with Israel will not stop them from selling weapons to india.
There has to be some concrete gain to have relation with Israel other wise there is not point to hurt the sentiments of your population. Israel brings nothing to table for us. So let's ignore Gen mushi for now.
 
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For Pakistan, Israel has been an enemy. There are many reasons which people had already listed it off. It happens for long time and, not really ended. Over it.
  1. Pakistan is Islamic country by majority and just like most of Islamic world, Israel is an infidel for the Palestinian war
  2. Pakistan had been insulted by Israel due to the war between Pakistan and India, Israel provided most of aids for India against Pakistan
I don’t know other reason, but definitely for the name of Makka and Madina, I can be sure Pakistan feel Israel as a threat.

Israel together with India was strongly against the Nuclear Program of Pakistan wanted to destroy it in 1998 like it did of Iraq and Libya but couldn't , due to possible attack at Di Mona Nuclear plant(Isreal ) in retaliation from Pakistan . From Pakistani airforce though less than 12 pilots were permitted to secretly volunteer in Jordanian /Syrian/Egyptian airforce in the two Arab Isreal war , became only Muslim pilots ever to have shot down at least 7 Isreali jets as the following article describes it
24129956_1472386862838623_3894166672332401639_n.jpg

On June 5, 1967, he was called to defend Jordan's main base at Mafraq from the Israeli Air Force's Dassault Super Mystère aircraft. One of four Hunters flown by Pakistanis,Saiful Azam shot down 2 Israeli fighter and damaged another. On June 6, 1967, he was transferred to the Iraqi Air Force and was in western Iraq when four Israeli Vatour bombers escorted by two Mirage fighters attacked the airbase. One Mirage pilot, Captain Gideon Dror, shot down one Iraqi fighter including Azam's wingman, but was in turn shot down by Azam. Azam also shot down a Vatour bomber flown by Captain Golan.’ (Saif ul Azam later served in Bangladesh Airforce )
24130506_1472388509505125_2727711740188006624_o.jpg

‘ During the 1973 war, Flt. Lt. A. Sattar Alvi became the first Pakistani pilot, flying a Syrian aircraft to shoot down an IsraeliMirage in air combat. Similarly on the Egyptian front, Pakistan Air Force pilot Flt. Lt. M. Hatif, flying an Egyptian MiG-21 shot down an Israeli F-4 phantom in an air combat. ‘

Pakistan as it's called the Muslim Zion ,is only state beside Israel in the world created in the name of religion . As early as 1960s during Celebration of Israeli victory against Arabs in Paris , Israeli PM warned about the Pakistani threat to Zionist Isreal is even greater than that of Arabs ! ! !

Thanks !!

Muhammad Ali Jinnah said,"This state, Israel, is a bastard child of Europe."

When people ask Liaquat Ali Khan to recognize Isreal then in reply he said" Our souls are not for SALE."
 
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DOnt you have relations with them? I dont need to correct my history, my history is just fine. The point you people do not not get is that while India on one hand is enjoying relations with Iran (bitter enemy of Israel and Saudi Arabia) and with Saudi Arabia (bitter enemy of Iran and does not accept Israel) on the other hand it enjoys cordial relations with Israel. Heck India also has relations with Palestine.
We need to learn the art of diplomacy which is not a zero sum game. Israel only started to support India against us when we first started supporting arabs against Israel and became part of the Sixth day war. If tomorrow you accept Israel that does not mean suddenly you have given up on Palestine just like when you accept India, you do not give up on Kashmir.
Let me give you a fun fact do you know where the parts for your F-16s were coming during the period of sanctions?

Let me tell you a funny story ... The funny part is Arab themselves have a relationship with Israel ... MBS is dire to have a formally declared relationship with Israel ...

But is this about Arabs? Diplomacy is one thing and ideology is other ... Throw Islam out of Arab , what will they be ? They will still be Arabs, throw Islam out of Pakistan, what ethnicity do we have? Is Pakistani a nationality? It never was it never will be ... What is uniting people of KPK with people of Sindh? They can't even understand the language of each other ... The only thing which unites us is Islam ... I don't care how Israel has dealing with Arabs ... It is not about them it is about us ...

The only thing I care is Pakistan is meant to be an Islamic state and should adhere by the principle of Islam ... As per our Islamic teaching Israel has forcefully captured the sacred place of Muslims and which is not acceptable to Pakistani ... Even by standards of democracy, your statement has no weight as it is the voice of the majority of Pakistani and not me alone

Last but not the least , we have accepted India but not the government of Jammu Kashmir ... We are not simply accepting the government who has captured the holy city of Jerusalem ...

If Afghanistan, Iran, Tajikistan, Oman, Saudis, Emiratis, Palestinians, etc have relations with India who is massacring Kashmiris and are occupying Muslim land, what is stopping Pakistan to have relations with Israel? In fact, I believe Pakistan can play a positive role in solution of Israel Palestine conflict then instead of now. Not just that, Pakistan might gain balance with western world vis a vis India.
Because it is not for the Arab race but for muslims and Islam ...

On the contrary, Arab themselves want to accept Israel ... Its the people of Arab that are against it ... Otherwise leadership of Arab already share bed with Israel
 
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friend of your enemy can never be your friend.i don't agree with sir musharraf but i like the way he is treating india.he is still a lion.his recent conversation with indian media.....

 
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Musharaf had made a lot of blunders and had he stayed, he surely wud had made this blunder also. Good that we got rid of him.
 
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Why is he always talking? Hasnt he already revealed so many state secrets? This mofo is old a **** and instead of taking care of his health & spend time with his great grand kids he wants to stay relevant. Dude, go spend ur not so hard earned dollars someplace and leave Pak to its rulers.

Old man+modern media= bad combo, this guy while I respect him for serving Pakistan armed forces need to understand that some things are meant to be a secret, he's basically acting like an old grandpa that has gone senile due to old age. :lol:
 
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Why this guy was not court martialed is beyond me... He is a cia sellout
 
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Cooperating on what?

PAKISTAN’S MILITARY COOPERATION WITH ISRAEL
Posted on December 24, 2018by Indian Gentile



Pakistan’s secret military cooperation with Israel raised serious questions about its circumventive policy towards the Arab world. During the last three decades, Israel and Pakistan had a constructive rapprochement to coordinate their stances on the Afghan issue and exchange military information. There was a turning point in the country’s foreign policy, when Pakistan worked closely with Israel in Afghanistan during the Soviet intervention in 1980s. After a successful operation against the Palestinians in 1970, General Zia-ul-Haq (From Pakistan) was awarded Jordan’s highest honour for the services rendered.

Gen Zia, who led the operation as Brigadier General deployed in Jordan at that time. It was said that in this war around 5,000 to 7,000 Palestinians were killed, although Yasser Arafat claimed the death toll was more like 25,000. The Operation was on the direct order of Jordanian King Hussein. Israeli General Moshe Dayan noted to King Hussein that:


“Hussein killed more Palestinians in eleven days than Israel could kill in twenty years.”

After the Operation Black September, Gen Zia became most favourite person to the state of Israel. At that time, Zia was the only figure in Pakistan Army whom Israel could trust and could make good political and military relations with his country. In Afghan war, Israel was one of the most important countries that assisted Pakistan in weapons and training to the Afghan Mujaheddin. Israel’s intelligence agency MOSSAD assisted Pakistan in training Afghans near the Pak-Afghan border.

The Russian weapons which captured from PLO in Lebanon by Israel Defence Force (IDF) were given to Pakistan and ISI supplied all weapons to the Mujaheddin against the USSR. Israel has accomplished many missions along with Pakistan because Pakistan and Israel are both good allies of the US. General Zia likewise, surprised many observers in March 1986, when he called on the PLO to recognize the Jewish state.

Operation Cyclone was the code name for the American CIA to arm and finance Afghan Mujaheddin prior to and during the Afghan/Soviet war. American CIA and Pakistani ISI worked shoulder to shoulder against the Soviet Regime. The USSR was the number one financier of Palestinian terrorist organisations such as the PLO. Pakistan’s ISI had established professional relations with Israel’s Mossad and had secretly passed on intelligence data to Mossad. ISI had intercepted information that Israeli civilians may be targeted in a terrorist attack in India during September and November 2008. It was reported by Wiki Leaks that Pakistan’s Lieutenant-General Ahmad Shuja Pasha was in direct contact with Mossad. In 2013, Britain’s Department for Business, Innovation and Skills revealed that: “In 2011, Israel allegedly exported military equipment to Pakistan via Britain; this equipment apparently included electronic warfare systems and aircraft parts”. However, Pakistan & Israel, both denied these claims.

In 2001, Pakistani Government through the ISI, passed intelligence to Israel about the Gulf States and the nuclear ambitions of Iran and Libya, whose programs Pakistani scientists had helped to build. In 2010, according to unconfirmed “leaked”(Wiki Leaks) American diplomatic cables, from October 2009, head of Pakistan’s intelligence agency ISI, Lieutenant-General Ahmad Shuja Pasha provided intelligence about potential terrorist attacks in India to Israel through Washington. According to the cable,

“Gen Pasha had been in direct touch with the Israelis on possible threats against Israeli targets in India.”

A few weeks before the cable was written, the Israeli Counter-Terror Bureau had issued a travel advisory warning of possible attacks against Israeli sites in India. In 2011, Israel was alleged to have exported British military technology to Pakistan.

In 2015, Israeli scientist attended the scientific conference sponsored by Pakistan Academy of Sciences held in Lahore, Pakistan. In August 1997, the Ex- Chief of army staff from1988-91, General Mirza Aslam Beg said:

“Pakistan has no direct differences with Israel, therefore, was a third party to the dispute… We have no conflict with Israel, therefore we should not hesitate in recognising Israel.”

Whenever Pakistan recognises and establishes relations with Israel, it will not be the first Islamic country to do so. Since it has no direct disputes with Israel, Pakistan is not under any compulsion to seek a “cold peace” with Israel, and therefore has several options to choose from.

These options according to a writer P. R. Kumaraswamy are the Turkish model, it means Pakistan can recognize Israel without establishing diplomatic relations immediately, like an Iranian model, it can follow the precedent set by the Shah of Iran and recognise the Jewish state, but maintain its relationship under wraps, however, in the Jordanian model, the country can imitate the Jordanians and maintain close political as well as military relations with the Jewish state without granting any official recognition, and finally, in the Chinese model, it can adopt the Chinese example and view military contacts as a means of promoting political relations.”

At least in the foreseeable future, the political status of the relationship is likely to be tentative. While maintaining and even intensifying political contacts in private, both Israel and Pakistan will probably be extremely reluctant to discuss the nature and intensity of their contacts and relationship in public. Israel’s Relations with Pakistan would help dilute Islam-based opposition toward Israel and Pakistan should move closer to Israel because there are no bilateral disputes or conflicts between them. In search of historical contacts between both Armies and Intelligence agencies; I have absolutely no doubt that both countries still collaborate in secretive operations and work together to achieve their military benefits in the region. Pakistanis are intelligent people who keep the country safe and strong through professional governance strategies and cooperation with other nations.

The Ex-Army Chief and Former President of Pakistan, Mr Pervez Musharraf once said in June 2003:

What is our dispute [with Israel]? I have been saying:Should we be more catholic than the pope or more pious than the pope or more Palestinian than the Palestinians themselves? Is this the right attitude or should there be some change in it? There should be national consensus on it.”

Israel wanted Pervez Musharraf to stay in power; it was Israel’s national interest making Musharraf strong and in power. Israel was concerned about Musharraf’s wellbeing and wanted him to remain on the seat with power in 2007. According to the Wiki Leaks cables from Tel Aviv’s American embassy:

“The Israeli spy chief Meir Dagan met US under-secretary Burns and said that he was concerned about how long then-Pakistani President Musharraf would survive,saying: “…he is facing a serious problem with the militants. Pakistan’s nuclear capability could end up in the hands of an Islamic regime.”

Gen Pervez Musharraf knew that Israel is a reality and it is not going away from the map of the world, he always insisted that making good relations with Israel, Pakistan will get political soft corner in the world. Relations with Israel could help Pakistan on the world’s political stage. In his first interview with Israeli Newspaper Haaretz, Pervez Musharraf stated that:

“Israel is a fait accompli”

To establish good relations with Jews and Israel is a tenet of Islam, Islam teaches Muslims to make good relations with other religions and Islam permits its followers to engage with people of other faiths. It is in the supreme national interest of Pakistan to recognise Israel and make diplomatic ties because recognition of Israel could solve the Israel Palestine conflict which was spoiled for centuries

The author of this piece Noor Dahri is a director of Pakistan Israel Alliance (PIA)and Editor in Chief of the Newspaper Pak Israel News (PIN). He is an independent researcher based in London, UK. He has studied Counter Terrorism from International Institute for Counter Terrorism ICT- Herzliya – Israel. He is a honorary member of the ZF-UK.

Source Pakistan’s Military Cooperation with Israel

The relationship between Israel and Pakistan is simple Pakistan needs to keep the Jew Lobby in America in its good books to keep milking America and Israel as Ben Gurion believed faces a far bigger threat from Pakistan then from any Arab nation therefore the need to maintain hidden ties with the Pakistani elite



HIDDEN TIES SUIT BOTH NATIONS PERFECTLY

https://wideawakegentile.wordpress.com/2018/12/24/pakistans-military-cooperation-with-israel/
 
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friend of your enemy can never be your friend.i don't agree with sir musharraf but i like the way he is treating india.he is still a lion.his recent conversation with indian media.....

There's no such thing as friends in international affairs lawl
 
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PAKISTAN’S MILITARY COOPERATION WITH ISRAEL
Posted on December 24, 2018by Indian Gentile



Pakistan’s secret military cooperation with Israel raised serious questions about its circumventive policy towards the Arab world. During the last three decades, Israel and Pakistan had a constructive rapprochement to coordinate their stances on the Afghan issue and exchange military information. There was a turning point in the country’s foreign policy, when Pakistan worked closely with Israel in Afghanistan during the Soviet intervention in 1980s. After a successful operation against the Palestinians in 1970, General Zia-ul-Haq (From Pakistan) was awarded Jordan’s highest honour for the services rendered.

Gen Zia, who led the operation as Brigadier General deployed in Jordan at that time. It was said that in this war around 5,000 to 7,000 Palestinians were killed, although Yasser Arafat claimed the death toll was more like 25,000. The Operation was on the direct order of Jordanian King Hussein. Israeli General Moshe Dayan noted to King Hussein that:


“Hussein killed more Palestinians in eleven days than Israel could kill in twenty years.”

After the Operation Black September, Gen Zia became most favourite person to the state of Israel. At that time, Zia was the only figure in Pakistan Army whom Israel could trust and could make good political and military relations with his country. In Afghan war, Israel was one of the most important countries that assisted Pakistan in weapons and training to the Afghan Mujaheddin. Israel’s intelligence agency MOSSAD assisted Pakistan in training Afghans near the Pak-Afghan border.

The Russian weapons which captured from PLO in Lebanon by Israel Defence Force (IDF) were given to Pakistan and ISI supplied all weapons to the Mujaheddin against the USSR. Israel has accomplished many missions along with Pakistan because Pakistan and Israel are both good allies of the US. General Zia likewise, surprised many observers in March 1986, when he called on the PLO to recognize the Jewish state.

Operation Cyclone was the code name for the American CIA to arm and finance Afghan Mujaheddin prior to and during the Afghan/Soviet war. American CIA and Pakistani ISI worked shoulder to shoulder against the Soviet Regime. The USSR was the number one financier of Palestinian terrorist organisations such as the PLO. Pakistan’s ISI had established professional relations with Israel’s Mossad and had secretly passed on intelligence data to Mossad. ISI had intercepted information that Israeli civilians may be targeted in a terrorist attack in India during September and November 2008. It was reported by Wiki Leaks that Pakistan’s Lieutenant-General Ahmad Shuja Pasha was in direct contact with Mossad. In 2013, Britain’s Department for Business, Innovation and Skills revealed that: “In 2011, Israel allegedly exported military equipment to Pakistan via Britain; this equipment apparently included electronic warfare systems and aircraft parts”. However, Pakistan & Israel, both denied these claims.

In 2001, Pakistani Government through the ISI, passed intelligence to Israel about the Gulf States and the nuclear ambitions of Iran and Libya, whose programs Pakistani scientists had helped to build. In 2010, according to unconfirmed “leaked”(Wiki Leaks) American diplomatic cables, from October 2009, head of Pakistan’s intelligence agency ISI, Lieutenant-General Ahmad Shuja Pasha provided intelligence about potential terrorist attacks in India to Israel through Washington. According to the cable,

“Gen Pasha had been in direct touch with the Israelis on possible threats against Israeli targets in India.”

A few weeks before the cable was written, the Israeli Counter-Terror Bureau had issued a travel advisory warning of possible attacks against Israeli sites in India. In 2011, Israel was alleged to have exported British military technology to Pakistan.

In 2015, Israeli scientist attended the scientific conference sponsored by Pakistan Academy of Sciences held in Lahore, Pakistan. In August 1997, the Ex- Chief of army staff from1988-91, General Mirza Aslam Beg said:

“Pakistan has no direct differences with Israel, therefore, was a third party to the dispute… We have no conflict with Israel, therefore we should not hesitate in recognising Israel.”

Whenever Pakistan recognises and establishes relations with Israel, it will not be the first Islamic country to do so. Since it has no direct disputes with Israel, Pakistan is not under any compulsion to seek a “cold peace” with Israel, and therefore has several options to choose from.

These options according to a writer P. R. Kumaraswamy are the Turkish model, it means Pakistan can recognize Israel without establishing diplomatic relations immediately, like an Iranian model, it can follow the precedent set by the Shah of Iran and recognise the Jewish state, but maintain its relationship under wraps, however, in the Jordanian model, the country can imitate the Jordanians and maintain close political as well as military relations with the Jewish state without granting any official recognition, and finally, in the Chinese model, it can adopt the Chinese example and view military contacts as a means of promoting political relations.”

At least in the foreseeable future, the political status of the relationship is likely to be tentative. While maintaining and even intensifying political contacts in private, both Israel and Pakistan will probably be extremely reluctant to discuss the nature and intensity of their contacts and relationship in public. Israel’s Relations with Pakistan would help dilute Islam-based opposition toward Israel and Pakistan should move closer to Israel because there are no bilateral disputes or conflicts between them. In search of historical contacts between both Armies and Intelligence agencies; I have absolutely no doubt that both countries still collaborate in secretive operations and work together to achieve their military benefits in the region. Pakistanis are intelligent people who keep the country safe and strong through professional governance strategies and cooperation with other nations.

The Ex-Army Chief and Former President of Pakistan, Mr Pervez Musharraf once said in June 2003:

What is our dispute [with Israel]? I have been saying:Should we be more catholic than the pope or more pious than the pope or more Palestinian than the Palestinians themselves? Is this the right attitude or should there be some change in it? There should be national consensus on it.”

Israel wanted Pervez Musharraf to stay in power; it was Israel’s national interest making Musharraf strong and in power. Israel was concerned about Musharraf’s wellbeing and wanted him to remain on the seat with power in 2007. According to the Wiki Leaks cables from Tel Aviv’s American embassy:

“The Israeli spy chief Meir Dagan met US under-secretary Burns and said that he was concerned about how long then-Pakistani President Musharraf would survive,saying: “…he is facing a serious problem with the militants. Pakistan’s nuclear capability could end up in the hands of an Islamic regime.”

Gen Pervez Musharraf knew that Israel is a reality and it is not going away from the map of the world, he always insisted that making good relations with Israel, Pakistan will get political soft corner in the world. Relations with Israel could help Pakistan on the world’s political stage. In his first interview with Israeli Newspaper Haaretz, Pervez Musharraf stated that:

“Israel is a fait accompli”

To establish good relations with Jews and Israel is a tenet of Islam, Islam teaches Muslims to make good relations with other religions and Islam permits its followers to engage with people of other faiths. It is in the supreme national interest of Pakistan to recognise Israel and make diplomatic ties because recognition of Israel could solve the Israel Palestine conflict which was spoiled for centuries

The author of this piece Noor Dahri is a director of Pakistan Israel Alliance (PIA)and Editor in Chief of the Newspaper Pak Israel News (PIN). He is an independent researcher based in London, UK. He has studied Counter Terrorism from International Institute for Counter Terrorism ICT- Herzliya – Israel. He is a honorary member of the ZF-UK.

Source Pakistan’s Military Cooperation with Israel

The relationship between Israel and Pakistan is simple Pakistan needs to keep the Jew Lobby in America in its good books to keep milking America and Israel as Ben Gurion believed faces a far bigger threat from Pakistan then from any Arab nation therefore the need to maintain hidden ties with the Pakistani elite



HIDDEN TIES SUIT BOTH NATIONS PERFECTLY

https://wideawakegentile.wordpress.com/2018/12/24/pakistans-military-cooperation-with-israel/

This is BS.
 
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Western people with good moral standards are actively seeking to boycott the terrorist state of Israel yet many Pakistanis want to be pals with them?

Lol

Once Iran is finished you'll be next..deluded fools.
 
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