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"Britain is like an old theme park sliding into the Atlantic compared to modern China." Former Australian Prime Minister Paul Keating

It's funny of you think just becos no Pakistanis wants to migrate to China and that auto assume China is backwards?

Do China education is based on English? No.
Chinese culture is something very unique which totally different from what Pakistanis experience from mostly their western countries.

The most important factor, China don't welcome migrants like UK and US. The chances of Pakistanis getting a green card from China is as good as striking a lottery.
China doesn't need immigrants.

Political Scientists said China made up for that with its massive 1.4 billion population.

By the way most Pakistanis do not like to leave Pakistan. They only do so for Economic reasons.

If Pakistan was like China, Taiwan, or Japan, most Pakistanis would never leave it.

Living in the western countries has its own liabilities as well.
I have been to almost most major cities of Europe and I have been to Mainland China and HK. I had said years ago before it became cliche to say this - Chinese cities make NY look like a back water town. People would laugh at me. Fast forward 10 years. The hubris that exists in the West will be its downfall. It is a disease that seeps most people's psyche.
Lets hope so.

Now the West has become arrogant now. I hope China economically exceeds USA at least in this decade.
 
Can anyone point to the thread where we discussed the Uigher propoganda against China?
 
I have been to almost most major cities of Europe and I have been to Mainland China and HK. I had said years ago before it became cliche to say this - Chinese cities make NY look like a back water town. People would laugh at me. Fast forward 10 years. The hubris that exists in the West will be its downfall. It is a disease that seeps most people's psyche.
Case in point

in 2008, US public all laughed at Obama for his remark that China was ahead of US in infrastruture, and now who should laugh... it's only a decade ago.

Obama Said China's Infrastructure Was Better Suited Than U.S. and got ridiculed by all US media channels in 2008, history used 10 years to prove he is right.
 
Are you sure it's changing as I can't see the change anywhere?

Speaking purely from Pakistani perspective, most Pakistanis even the patriots if given the chance, will pack everything and migrate to the UK.

There are other countries in Europe that are highly developed such as Germany, France, Italy, Spain, etc. and there are thousands of Pakistanis in those countries, but they're all there (some of them who have even settled) just waiting for the right chance to migrate further into the UK, specifically to the UK.

Every time I am in Pakistan people ask me about the legal ways of getting into the UK. They're not interested in any other country, just the UK.

Before Hong Kong was recently taken over by China, some Pakistanis were going there to further migrate to the UK, not move to China, Japan, Singapore, just the UK by whatever means.

This immigration to the UK is not going to change anytime soon. Simply because people only see the numbers going into the UK and not the number of people who move out of the UK to settle elsewhere such as the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, etc. Therefore, the Government has this policy to baje sure the population doesnt decline. (All the political debates in the UK are not against immigration but the quality of immigration).

In Pakistani media, films, shows, dramas, news, everywhere, there's so much promotion of Pakistanis living in or moving to the UK, all in positive light.

Even though there's only ever positive mention of China in Pakistani media and Pakistanis admire and see China as a great country today, you will not find one Pakistani wishing to migrate to China. It just doesn't come to mind or in a discussion.

Another reason that many people may not be aware of is that the UK has an unacknowledged preference for immigrants from Pakistan and India as both of these countries are nuclear powers. It is an insurance policy. If the UK were to ever face an existential threat from a foreign power, both Pakistan and India will be forced to come to UK's aid due to the large Pakistani and Indian populations settled there.

Let me show you some examples so you get an idea of what I am talking about.

This is a Pakistani who settled in Ningxia, which is a remote inland province dominated by Hui Muslims. Historically this place was very poor but it has quickly modernized as well in the last two decades. The pace of modernization in China is so rapid that if your perceptions were based on China's reality just 5-6 years ago, it is already out of date.

Note, this is probably a lower tier city in a relatively poor province.


This lady is a British Pakistani who is visiting a Pakistani restaurant in China.


This Canadian vlogger is visiting a newer mall in Chongqing, one of China's megacities. This is only one of many malls in this huge city. You can't see anything like this in Britain. These malls cater to China's massive middle class which numbers 400-500 million and is growing day by day.


I've traveled to many countries including the UK and China. I know what I am talking about because I've seen it with my own eyes. In the UK, many Muslim immigrants live in communities like this full of older row homes, small streets, etc. I don't know, you might consider this the pinnacle of living but to me, it's actually quite dreary.

 
What average Indians first hand accounts of living in China, How many of those who badmouth China in this forum ever lived in China?

In the dragon’s den: Indians in China on what life is like in the country amid a stand-off between two nations

BySuktara Ghosh / Updated: Jun 28, 2020, 11:26 IST
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While the border remains tense, Mirror speaks to a few Indians based in China to know what life is like in the country at a time when ties between the two nations are plumbing a new low.

Suranjana Roy Bhattacharya, 49
Shanghai

“My husband came to Shanghai for a four-year assignment in 2008, and when it was time to return, he changed jobs so we could stay on. That’s how much we like this place,” says Bhattacharya, who’s from Kolkata.

It’s an Asian country with first world infrastructure, “so you get the best of both worlds,”says the journalist-turnedfreelance writer. “You can’t imagine the construction activities and upgrading that go on. Buildings to buses, everything looks new. It’s also very green.” There’s an upbeat vibe in cities as well as the interiors of the country, and there is little visible disparity of wealth. “I love how old people spontaneously put on music and break into a dance on the streets or do Tai Chi.”

The state, she says, plans extensively to help the most vulnerable. “For instance, post pandemic, there have been micro-specific policy actions to help businesses recover. Taxes are being restructured in such a way that people get actual monetary relief. It’s one of the major reasons why China has turned around so fast.”

While Bhattacharya hasn’t experienced any anti-India sentiment, she has observed a particular bias towards white people, “which sometimes translates to prejudice against black people”.

Amit Waikar, 44
Shanghai

The vice-president of Döhler Group has clocked a decade in China with his family and even turned down an opportunity to move to the US. “It was a bit of a shock for my boss,” says Waikar, who received the prestigious Pravasi Bharatiya Samman Award from President Ram Nath Kovind last year. The son of an Army doctor, he admits he initially had doubts about what his father referred to as “dushman desh” (enemy country). But his opinions were quickly revised. “They are an extremely hardworking and sincere people. My domestic help hasn’t been absent or even late once in 10 years,” he shares.

Also, most importantly, there’s a clear line between politics and business. “This is what defines the Chinese. For them, business is god,” says Waikar, who hails from Nagpur. “Their strongest political opponents — Japan, Taiwan and the US — are also their biggest business partners. Once you recognise and respect this, dealing with them becomes uncomplicated. And like us, they value connections a lot.”

There’s no hostility when it comes to India, either. “It’s not enforced. People in mainland China don’t know about the 1960s aggression, and there’s barely any mention of the current stand-off in the mainstream media.” Waikar and his wife, Aparna, especially appreciate the respectful attitude towards women. “I see smartly dressed young women managing toll booths on highways at 3 am and they have nothing to fear. It makes me wonder when we’ll have that in India,” he says.

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Dr Deepak Hegde , 50
Shanghai

The chief technology officer with EOC Pharma has been working in the pharmaceutical research sector in China since 2007. “The country has a very strong indigenous new drug research sector, thanks to its policies on innovation, patents and incentives,” says Deepak Hegde, who’s from Thane. “Biotechnology is one of the key strategic areas for the government, and they have projects locked down for at least the next 10 years.”

Concerns over strained international relations post the Covid outbreak haven’t slowed them down. “Here, the backlash is widely seen as political because of the stand-off with the US. But there’s no negativity in the scientific field. Three Covid-19 vaccines are already in phase III of development,” says Hegde, adding that the levels of Chinese professionalism and civility never fail to amaze him. “As Indians, my family and I have never experienced hostility during political tensions between the countries. People are always respectful and welcoming.”

Hegde adds that the Chinese government’s systematic handling of the lockdown has been exemplary. “Remember, the pandemic struck here in the end of January during the Chinese New Year, when millions travel across the country,” he points out.

“Despite the mass migration, the government managed to control it with the help of infrastructure, technology and the application of artificial intelligence. The 1,000-bed Huoshenshan Hospital in Wuhan was built in 10 days. Medical insurance is provided by the state, and the quality of healthcare at government hospitals is comparable to India’s best private hospitals.”


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Anuja Dorle, 43
Shanghai

The education system in China is as robust as it gets, says Dorle, who holds an administrative position at the Shanghai American School. In a cosmopolitan city like Shanghai, there are many international schools catering to different syllabi. Local schools are either bilingual or instruct in Chinese. “Public school education is excellent. The standard of education at even ordinary public schools is high,” says Dorle, who moved to China from the US in 2010, as her husband, Samir’s job took him there.

Diversity and inclusion is managed through policies. “Organisations, schools and colleges included, have regulations to filter out racism and genderrelated biases,” says Dorle, who hails from Aurangabad. Schools strive to have a 50-50 ratio and the education about equal treatment percolates into daily life as well. “As a woman, you never feel unsafe.”

The warm-heartedness of the people made Dorle feel quite at home, even before she picked up what she calls “survival Chinese” — basic linguistic skills. “When people spot my mother or mother-inlaw in saris, they make an effort to interact, despite the language barrier, sometimes even take a picture,” she says. “There’s special respect for Indians because Buddhism is widely followed, and the Buddha hails from India."

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AK Raj, 54
Shanghai



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AK Raj


The ex-banker from Borivali has been living in Shanghai with four generations of his family — his mother and grandson live there, too — since 2013. And he is all praise for the civic governance machinery. “I don’t have to complain about clogged drains or waterlogged roads. Everything from healthcare to education to transport runs like clockwork,” he says.

Raj says that contrary to popular belief, he has seen little sign of corruption. “I worked in the finance sector and I didn’t come across it. The police don’t harass you, cabbies don’t overcharge… A taxi company, we once used, even returned a lost passport and refused to take any money as reward,” he shares.

Politics, however, is off limits. “As long as you don’t talk about or criticise the government, foreigners are very welcome. The locals too, feel they need not worry their head about politics — it can be handled by the leaders in Beijing,” he says. “People here seem happy to work for the Communist government. And, unlike in India, they don’t spend hundreds of millions on elections.”


Varun Hadkar , 34
Beijing


Varun Hadkar, who has a home in Juhu, believes that since his move to Beijing in 2015, the Chinese has shown him how to attain perfection at work. “They have a single-minded focus and aim to do the best job possible,” he says, and adds with a laugh, “they don’t have the Indian talent for jugaad though.”

Hadkar, who works with an organisation that focuses on the production and post-production of movies and web shows, is seeing a transformation in Chinese cinema. “Romantic dramas and mythological and historical films are very popular. Indian films are too: 3 Idiots, Dangal and Andhadhun were blockbusters, and most cab drivers know at least a couple of Bollywood songs,” he says. “But now Chinese movies are exploring off-beat genres, especially science fiction. The production value of their films matches that of Hollywood films.”

The pandemic has brought the business to the cusp of a huge change. Movies are not only finding their way to OTT platforms but to TikTok as well — Xu Zheng’s Lost in Russia has become a sensation on the platform. “The government has announced tax rebates, which really help us,” says Hadkar, adding that he feels Beijing — and China, in general — handled the pandemic very well. “There was a total lockdown and every time you went out of the building, you had to scan a QR code and get your temperature checked.”

Hadkar loves his life in Beijing and says that people open up very readily if one is conversant in Chinese.

“The young generation is making an effort to learn English, but older people, too, will try to communicate if you know the language even a little. Like Indians, they are a family-oriented people, so I’m always being invited to dinners, parties and weddings.”



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https://mumbaimirror.indiatimes.com/others/sunday-read/call-of-beauty/articleshow/76666642.cms
 
I have been to almost most major cities of Europe and I have been to Mainland China and HK. I had said years ago before it became cliche to say this - Chinese cities make NY look like a back water town. People would laugh at me. Fast forward 10 years. The hubris that exists in the West will be its downfall. It is a disease that seeps most people's psyche.

although i spend my work related time in the new developed areas in Shanghai but i always used to visit the other part that is proper city at the week ends.

when you travel through the roads and streets of proper Shanghai, it give you a feeling of some embedded culture and atmosphere of tradition. visit shops of handicraft, their traditional grocery stores and what not.

evening at Nanjing Road is another experience of cultural mix as several tourists are found visiting that area at night.

also when children leave the schools after daylong attendance, it is just amazing to see those kids at roads going home.

only thing i don't like is they close too early.

for Europe i would say it would never lose its charm, their culture rich historic places always catch my eye and willingly or unwillingly i find my self there sooner or later.
What average Indians first hand accounts of living in China, How many of those who badmouth China in this forum ever lived in China?

they have very well established businesses there. restaurants, textiles and what not.

just for textiles they export massive, just visit textile exhibitions and one will find a huge presence of Indians.

they actually have this habit of stabbing same person who feed them it's in their blood, they can't resist.
 
What does Britain even produce nowadays except for the same scammy wall street financial products made in the City of London?

Most of Britain's cities nowadays are bleak and run down compared to China's shining metropolises and advanced infrastructure, that's an undeniable fact.

ARM architecture, a huge part of our world runs on it.
 
You didn't answer to my question instead you are trying to further derail this thread. No surprise.

Poland has requested UK for help

we will think about it
Let me show you some examples so you get an idea of what I am talking about.

This is a Pakistani who settled in Ningxia, which is a remote inland province dominated by Hui Muslims. Historically this place was very poor but it has quickly modernized as well in the last two decades. The pace of modernization in China is so rapid that if your perceptions were based on China's reality just 5-6 years ago, it is already out of date.

Note, this is probably a lower tier city in a relatively poor province.


This lady is a British Pakistani who is visiting a Pakistani restaurant in China.


This Canadian vlogger is visiting a newer mall in Chongqing, one of China's megacities. This is only one of many malls in this huge city. You can't see anything like this in Britain. These malls cater to China's massive middle class which numbers 400-500 million and is growing day by day.


I've traveled to many countries including the UK and China. I know what I am talking about because I've seen it with my own eyes. In the UK, many Muslim immigrants live in communities like this full of older row homes, small streets, etc. I don't know, you might consider this the pinnacle of living but to me, it's actually quite dreary.


Fake
 
Who is retarded now?
View attachment 793298

Of course military secret in China is state controlled, it's privately controlled in your host country?

Sure go make a show, who use inflammatory language? You a THINK TANK?

View attachment 793299

You make such comments that as a Brit , I can just run with them and make a lot of noise. But that would get me a warning , I am certain of it.
I will say, keep it civilised and get over it.

In every country propaganda sells, UK no exception. Governments everywhere are involved in propaganda. But I know in my country UK, you cannot publish misleading stories or misleading facts. You will be pull over. Government or private agencies have to stick to verifiable facts.
 
It's funny of you think just becos no Pakistanis wants to migrate to China and that auto assume China is backwards?

Do China education is based on English? No.
Chinese culture is something very unique which totally different from what Pakistanis experience from mostly their western countries.

The most important factor, China don't welcome migrants like UK and US. The chances of Pakistanis getting a green card from China is as good as striking a lottery.
No, I wasn't suggesting China is backward or anything like that. It's just that nobody considers migrating to China even if that country was migrant-friendly.

Pakistanis spend a lot of money (visa fees alone cost £3,500 ($4,700) and also put in a lot of effort to learn the English language (as visa requirement) just to migrate to the UK. There are some Pakistanis who delay getting married in life in the hope that a marriage proposal will come from a British-Pakistani citizen. I've not heard of any Pakistanis making that sort of sacrifice wishing to go to China.

It's not that migrants dream of going to the UK to become entrepreneurs or something like that. Most migrants are less educated and are happy to do low skilled jobs. At the same time, most female migrants spend their British lives as house wives.

Nobody cares if China is the second largest economy or it will be the largest in time, people don't find it appealing going there. But whether the UK is still an Empire or reduced to fifth largest economy, it's still the first choice for everybody.
 
No, I wasn't suggesting China is backward or anything like that. It's just that nobody considers migrating to China even if that country was migrant-friendly.

Pakistanis spend a lot of money (visa fees alone cost £3,500 ($4,700) and also put in a lot of effort to learn the English language (as visa requirement) just to migrate to the UK. There are some Pakistanis who delay getting married in life in the hope that a marriage proposal will come from a British-Pakistani citizen. I've not heard of any Pakistanis making that sort of sacrifice wishing to go to China.

It's not that migrants dream of going to the UK to become entrepreneurs or something like that. Most migrants are less educated and are happy to do low skilled jobs. At the same time, most female migrants spend their British lives as house wives.

Nobody cares if China is the second largest economy or it will be the largest in time, people don't find it appealing going there. But whether the UK is still an Empire or reduced to fifth largest economy, it's still the first choice for everybody.

Would they like to move to Japan or Korea? there is no doubt that the West is the primary destination for global immigration, their culture is more open for outsiders and most parts of the world are strongly influenced by their culture and values through centuries old western global colonization and domination. Even very poor nations in south America attract more immigrants than delevloped countries in East Asia like Japan and Korea, East Asia's Confucius society is just so different from other cultures which makes fitting in by outsiders almost impossible, but China, Japan and Korea each has very large overseas communities of the other two. This fact explains a lot.

The vast majority of the Chinese population are against foregin immigration, people believe foreign immigrants will undermine Chinese nation's inherent unity, discipiline and ethics, the government can't push through policies agaisnt general public's will, even after China becomes the most powerful and wealthy country in the world, she will not become an immigration friendly country, it has nothing to do with being developed or underdeveloped.
 
Would they like to move to Japan or Korea? there is no doubt that the West is the primary destination for global immigration, their culture is more open for outsiders and most parts of the world are strongly influenced by their culture and values through centuries old western global colonization and domination. Even very poor nations in south America attract more immigrants than delevloped countries in East Asia like Japan and Korea, East Asia's Confucius society is just so different from other cultures which makes fitting in by outsiders almost impossible, but China, Japan and Korea each has very large overseas communities of the other two. This fact explains a lot.

The vast majority of the Chinese population are against foregin immigration, people believe foreign immigrants will undermine Chinese nation's inherent unity, discipiline and ethics, the government can't push through policies agaisnt general public's will, even after China becomes the most powerful and wealthy country in the world, she will not become an immigration friendly country, it has nothing to do with being developed or underdeveloped.

The Chinese Communist Party will be thrown into the dustbin of history if they dare to introduce immigrants.

I am not opposed to individual foreign-related marriages, but systematic immigration is unacceptable.

The Chinese hate neoliberalism more than neoconservatism. This is also the reason why Jews have become stinky in China in a short period of time.
 

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