Breaking: Notre Dame, Paris on fire!

[Vortex]

asset

Ronnie k explained me

asset


for french people yes it is a tragedy but for us Muslims . no it isnt . they are the same people qho bomb Mulims and their historic mosques in Muslim countries .

No bro. I disagree with you.
It’s not because they are/doing wrong then we should also be/do wrong.

I hope you understand what I said and you will make good conclusions.

 

[timmy_area51]

How technology would help in the reconstruction process :

Notre-Dame-de-Paris : comment la technologie pourrait aider à la reconstruction - Plusieurs spécialistes de la modélisation en trois dimensions ont numérisé sous toutes ses coutures la mythique cathédrale. De quoi accélérer le processus de reconstruction.… à lire sur https://bfmbusiness.bfmtv.com/franc...urrait-aider-a-la-reconstruction-1674178.html

Basically the article said that 3D technology will help to rebuild the Cathedral. Many experts had already took 3D images of the monument in the past. So we have 3D plans.

Now that will help to rebuild it very accurately.


@Crystal-Clear indeed it is. The monument is part of France’s history.
It’s part of french people’s history.
It’s also part of catholic’s people.
It’s also part of history of human being.
Imagine how many people participated to build it with the technics existing more than 800 years ago...
Imagine how many people died working on it...

you can ask israel to 3D print the parts for you

 

[Vortex]

you can ask israel to 3D print the parts for you

What have to do Israel in the discussion?

 

[SQ8]

Don't worry,as we did with many other buildings we'll rebuild it... even if it might take years or decades...

Just like we did with the parliament of Britanny...

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@Vortex @waz @A.P. Richelieu

Great job to the soldiers of the Paris fire brigade who battled a difficult blaze during hours.

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Im just glad I saw Paris prior to it being in chaos.
Wonderful city and wonderful people too(contrary to the myth built around “rude” parisians)

it's not a big deal, only 1/40 of the Summer Palace.

Depends on how you see heritage, I was enchanted by a wall mural near mont de marseille..

 

[Galactic Penguin SST]

Brief History Of Reichstag Fire False Flag V1.0


First posted 16 April 2019; Updated 16 April 2019

Table of Contents

1. Introduction
2. Reichstag Fire False Flag Of 2001
3. Reichstag Fire False Flag Of 2019

1. Introduction

The Reichstag fire was an arson attack on the Reichstag building, home of the German parliament in Berlin, on Monday 27 February 1933.

As a consequence, at Hitler's request, the Reichstag Fire Decree suspended most civil liberties in Germany, including habeas corpus, freedom of expression, freedom of the press, the right of free association and public assembly, the secrecy of the post and telephone.

The term "Reichstag fire" has come to refer to false flag actions facilitated by an authority to promote their own interests through popular approval of retribution or retraction of civil rights.

▲ 1. Reichstag fire false flag of February 1933, signaling the rise of the totalitarian Nazi control of the German society.


2. Reichstag Fire False Flag Of 2001

Following the Reichstag Fire False Flag of 1933, a textbook replay took place in 2001 on September 11th, at the heart of the new Dystopian Empire, in New York.

With the same goal, signaling the end of all civil liberties in the U.S., and the entrenchment of the totalitarian rulers.

Biometric passports, fingerprint scanners, terahertz imaging scanners at all airports, all CCTV, massive build up of 4G cellphone base stations, etc.

360 degree coverage multi-camera smartphones, and associated selfie culture, cashless payment, facial recognition mandatory everywhere.

▲ 2. Reichstag fire false flag of 2001, signaling the rise of the totalitarian control of the U.S. Dystopian society.

3. Reichstag Fire False Flag Of 2019

After two decades, it is now the Old Europe's turn.

In today's U.S. occupied Paris, this fire could only signal one thing. The end of an era, the old order and way of life, as the French used to know, and its replacement with a even more totalitarian one.

From now on the C.I.A.'s 5G will monitor the French citizens every moves and speech 24/7/365. Nowhere to hide.

▲ 3. Reichstag fire false flag of 2019, signaling the rise of the totalitarian control of the U.S.-occupied French society.

 

[Falcon29]

Didn't know what this was, thought it was a city on fire when I first saw the headlines. Either way, lots of history/religious importance for Christians, that's unfortunate.

On youtube the comments are actually blaming Muslims lmaooooo

Not just Youtube, twitter, and other online forums. Such people are mentally disturbed, French authorities suspect electrical problem in elevator that caused the fire. Yet even when they know it's an accident, they say it doesn't matter because Muslims are supposedly celebrating, lol. What do those people want? Even if Europe was cleared of immigrants they will still have an obsession because they need fulfillment in their sad lives.

 

[Nein]

Didn't know what this was, thought it was a city on fire when I first saw the headlines. Either way, lots of history/religious importance for Christians, that's unfortunate.



Not just Youtube, twitter, and other online forums. Such people are mentally disturbed, French authorities suspect electrical problem in elevator that caused the fire. Yet even when they know it's an accident, they say it doesn't matter because Muslims are supposedly celebrating, lol. What do those people want? Even if Europe was cleared of immigrants they will still have an obsession because they need fulfillment in their sad lives.

When the crane at Makkah fell killing dozens of people on the internet a lot of the Anti Muslim bigots and Anti Islamic bigots all celebrated. When a mosque gets destroyed or bombed they celebrate.

I dont justify Muslims laughing or celebrating but the hypocrisy is hilarious its like they are not guilty of these things themselves.

 

[Vortex]

Didn't know what this was, thought it was a city on fire when I first saw the headlines. Either way, lots of history/religious importance for Christians, that's unfortunate.



Not just Youtube, twitter, and other online forums. Such people are mentally disturbed, French authorities suspect electrical problem in elevator that caused the fire. Yet even when they know it's an accident, they say it doesn't matter because Muslims are supposedly celebrating, lol. What do those people want? Even if Europe was cleared of immigrants they will still have an obsession because they need fulfillment in their sad lives.

Dumbness stupidity hate are universal, some could also be paid comments. Or even simply little bit sophisticated bots.

 

[Vortex]

If anyone is interested in participating to the reconstruction of the cathedral:

https://don.fondation-patrimoine.org/SauvonsNotreDame/~mon-don?_cv=1

 

[Numerous]

If anyone is interested in participating to the reconstruction of the cathedral:

https://don.fondation-patrimoine.org/SauvonsNotreDame/~mon-don?_cv=1

Donate your money to actual people who need help instead of wasting it on this.

 

[Vortex]

Donate your money to actual people who need help instead of wasting it on this.

Yep. Sure. Wise statement.


But by donating for the reconstruction you will mobilise lot if very small companies who will need to hire lot of people. Those companies are often struggling for their survival. By giving them the task to rebuild the cathedral, you will help directly a lot of people to save their job, or to have a job then for many eventually to exit from poverty.

That’s the direct effect.

But there is also an indirect effect on commerces, because they will have a money to spend.

But sure giving money to poor people is good.

But honestly which method is better ? Giving money and keeping poor always poor or helping poor to get a job ?

What you choose ?

 

[Numerous]

Yep. Sure. Wise statement.


But by donating for the reconstruction you will mobilise lot if very small companies who will need to hire lot of people. Those companies are often struggling for their survival. By giving them the task to rebuild the cathedral, you will help directly a lot of people to save their job, or to have a job then for many eventually to exit from poverty.

That’s the direct effect.

But there is also an indirect effect on commerces, because they will have a money to spend.

But sure giving money to poor people is good.

But honestly which method is better ? Giving money and keeping poor always poor or helping poor to get a job ?

What you choose ?

Then spend your money to build a mosque instead of donating to rebuild a place of shirk in an already very rich country if you're going to argue about jobs.

What do you think Islam values more - giving money to the poor or giving money to rebuild a church for the rich franks?

I'm going to be brutally honest here and say it - your defense of donating money for this is literally so bad. You want to make jobs so badly? Go create a business and hire people. No way did you ask people to donate money for this because you wanted to create jobs, we both know that.

for french people yes it is a tragedy but for us Muslims . no it isnt . they are the same people qho bomb Mulims and their historic mosques in Muslim countries .

Exactly. This was the same nation who were a few years ago marching for that charlie hebdo crap and insulting our Prophet(PBUH). They're the same nation who corrupted many Muslim lands in northern africa and still they hold a presence there trying to influence those societies.

The tragedy is not that notre dame caught on fire, the tragedy is that it survived the fire and now we have to listen to these guys express their "sadness" and ask for donations. Literally some pakistanis here acting like it's their dad's house which burnt. These guys need a reality check on what's actually important in life.

Abdullah ibn Umar reported: I saw the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, circling the Ka’bah and saying, “How pure you are and how pure is your fragrance! How great you are and how great is your sanctity! By the one in whose hand is the soul of Muhammad, the sanctity of the believer is greater to Allah than your sanctity, in his wealth, his life, and to assume nothing of him but good.”

Source: Sunan Ibn Majah 3932

These guys need to save their grief for things that actually matter.

 

[Vortex]

Then spend your money to build a mosque instead of donating to rebuild a place of shirk in an already very rich country if you're going to argue about jobs.

What do you think Islam values more - giving money to the poor or giving money to rebuild a church for the rich franks?

I'm going to be brutally honest here and say it - your defense of donating money for this is literally so bad. You want to make jobs so badly? Go create a business and hire people. No way did you ask people to donate money for this because you wanted to create jobs, we both know that.



Exactly. This was the same nation who were a few years ago marching for that charlie hebdo crap and insulting our Prophet(PBUH). They're the same nation who corrupted many Muslim lands in northern africa and still they hold a presence there trying to influence those societies.

The tragedy is not that notre dame caught on fire, the tragedy is that it survived the fire and now we have to listen to these guys express their "sadness" and ask for donations. Literally some pakistanis here acting like it's their dad's house which burnt. These guys need a reality check on what's actually important in life.

Abdullah ibn Umar reported: I saw the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, circling the Ka’bah and saying, “How pure you are and how pure is your fragrance! How great you are and how great is your sanctity! By the one in whose hand is the soul of Muhammad, the sanctity of the believer is greater to Allah than your sanctity, in his wealth, his life, and to assume nothing of him but good.”

Source: Sunan Ibn Majah 3932

These guys need to save their grief for things that actually matter.

we are going off topic but to reply to your post :


first : my message was adressed to anyone who is interested in participating to finance the rebuilding. There are christians in Pakistan and many other foreigners who are christians came here too.

If you are not interested, then kindly bypass this thread. That will help to avoid going off topic. The subject is interesting but this thread is not adapted for this dicussion.

I could create a business. But my funds are very limited, my skills are also limited, so how many people I would be able to hire and for what ? 1 ? 10 ? 300 ? and how long my business will run before bankrupcy ?

At least by rebuilding this cathedral, many businesses, many expertises can be revamped and people can get out from poverty. And also remember that this cathedral is also something that attract many tourists.

I remember having read somewhere on internet (but where - i don't remember it unfortunately), that a church was destroyed (by criminal act ?) in a pakistani village, and all people from the same village, christians and muslims participated to rebuild it. This day my green and white flag and my hope was reborn, that yes we could work and live together with mutual respect whatever is our faith despite whatever extremists do.
Islam teach us to respect other faith.

Don't worry we also participate in building mosques too. But the fact is that muslim communities are still working in old school fashion. So no ads in TV or radio or online... only in mosques.

I'm pakistani, i'm muslim, but France offered me free education without asking me my religion, France let me to go in her hospital without asking me my faith when I had serious health issue. France let me practice my faith freely without harrassing me.
I respected France, and in return, France also respected me. or maybe it was because France respected me then I respect her. There is no question about what you said "it's like my father's church who burnt". Yes I know it's pakistani way to insult "teray baap di, teri maan di, teri pain di...". I request you kindly to not bring father, mother etc in the discussion. It's not islamic at all.

The reality check is that by my behaviour, i hope the light of islam, the message of our Prophet Muhammad PBUH could illuminate their hearts. But unfortunately, many muslims are not helping me. I hope you also and all muslims do their reality check about what is more important in this life.

 

[Numerous]

we are going off topic but to reply to your post :


first : my message was adressed to anyone who is interested in participating to finance the rebuilding. There are christians in Pakistan and many other foreigners who are christians came here too.

If you are not interested, then kindly bypass this thread. That will help to avoid going off topic. The subject is interesting but this thread is not adapted for this dicussion.

I could create a business. But my funds are very limited, my skills are also limited, so how many people I would be able to hire and for what ? 1 ? 10 ? 300 ? and how long my business will run before bankrupcy ?

At least by rebuilding this cathedral, many businesses, many expertises can be revamped and people can get out from poverty. And also remember that this cathedral is also something that attract many tourists.

I remember having read somewhere on internet (but where - i don't remember it unfortunately), that a church was destroyed (by criminal act ?) in a pakistani village, and all people from the same village, christians and muslims participated to rebuild it. This day my green and white flag and my hope was reborn, that yes we could work and live together with mutual respect whatever is our faith despite whatever extremists do.
Islam teach us to respect other faith.

Don't worry we also participate in building mosques too. But the fact is that muslim communities are still working in old school fashion. So no ads in TV or radio or online... only in mosques.

I'm pakistani, i'm muslim, but France offered me free education without asking me my religion, France let me to go in her hospital without asking me my faith when I had serious health issue. France let me practice my faith freely without harrassing me.
I respected France, and in return, France also respected me. or maybe it was because France respected me then I respect her. There is no question about what you said "it's like my father's church who burnt"

The reality check is that by my behaviour, i hope the light of islam, the message of our Prophet Muhammad PBUH could illuminate their hearts. But unfortunately, many muslims are not helping me. I hope you also and all muslims do their reality check about what is more important in this life.

No I stayed on topic. We are talking notre dame. You are just not happy that I do have same opinion as you and thus you are labelling as off-topic.

With hundreds of millions already pledged by rich billionaires and even the government has promised to fix the place, then why do the french require your help? Are a few pounds from PDF necessary?

Look I don't care about french businesses or french tourism. Neither should any Pakistani (unless they hope to make money themselves and then I could sort of understand why they choose that view). The french economy isn't going to be drastically affected by fixing some old building. This is just a desperate argument you're using to defend yourself from scrutiny.

A church which is under the protection of Muslims and has been destroyed by rioters is a different case to a mostly unused muesem burning through an accident in a rich foreign country. They are not comparable.

I've seen people/organisations asking for mosques online and on TV shows. It's not as old school as you think. And if you do think the process of finding funding for mosques can become more digital and efficient then go do something about it.

I think you suffer from an inferiority complex whereas in your mind western countries are some perfect places to whom you owe favours. You owe them nothing. Similarly I owe Britain nothing. My dad works and pays his taxes which directly contribute to things like free health care and education. I have worked, I have paid taxes too. The french state does not provide these things out of kindness, the only countries who really do offer these things to their citizens for free are the small oil rich counties who don't require taxes from their citizens in return such as Bruinei.

More often than not. People like you and me are in these countries as a direct consequence of these nations having looted our homelands in the not too distant past and so our fathers and grandfathers had to go look for a good earning life abroad. And don't get me wrong, I don't blame them for everything but it's obvious that they had a big hand in ruining our countries.

If you were born 100 or 200 years, I doubt your brown *** would've even been allowed in the place over which you're crying ever.

Noone's going to convert to Islam because you became upset over a muesem/mostly unused church being burnt down. You know that's most likely true and so do I. If you want to convert people to Islam so badly - go join a dawah organisation.

I know what's important but I'm afraid you do not.

edit - Also I'm not attacking your father. I forgot that people say the "tera baap ki..." lines in urdu as an insult. I meant to say something along the lines of "people are upset and acting like their own house has burnt".

 

[Vortex]

No man the topic of this thread is about what happened to Notre Dame Cathédral and the reconstruction project.
Andour discussion become off topic because it is a more general question : should we as muslim living in foreign country to help people to rebuild their church ?
That's following my message where i gave a link for people who are interested to participate. That's all.

I understand your point of view in general, but what you don't know French State do not finance church or whatever religious building. It's the people themselves. It's only done on private donations. And the Notre Dame was not as you described as mostly not used.


I currently don't have enough time to reply you because family obligations. I will reply you later.

Update :



I will reply part by part :

No I stayed on topic. We are talking notre dame. You are just not happy that I do have same opinion as you and thus you are labelling as off-topic.

No it's not about being or not being happy because your opinion differ from mine.
As I said previously the point you raised is very interresting. I used th word "subject" for this. I said this point require another thread. Am I wrong ?

With hundreds of millions already pledged by rich billionaires and even the government has promised to fix the place, then why do the french require your help? Are a few pounds from PDF necessary?

Did i say France require my help ? I wrote "for anyone who is interrested". I really dont understand why you intervene if you are not interrested ? But forget it.

Look I don't care about french businesses or french tourism. Neither should any Pakistani (unless they hope to make money themselves and then I could sort of understand why they choose that view). The french economy isn't going to be drastically affected by fixing some old building. This is just a desperate argument you're using to defend yourself from scrutiny.

Good if you don't care about french business or french tourism. Nobody requested YOUR care about it. Don't worry.
But as I'm living in France I do care for OUR economy. Am I wrong by the care I could have for it ? My interests are here. If French economy is not going well, then my own job is at risk. That's as simple as that. Yes it is very selfish. But the jobs of our muslims brothers also are at risks and especially jobs of Pakistanis expatriates who send a lot money to Pakistan. If you don't care about it then what can I tell you ? What are you doing in UK ? Go back home.
I'm sure you wont leave UK because all advantages you have there and which you cant have in Pakistan.

So yes I do care about France. Unfortunately you don't know how many muslims work in construction sector. There are many. you don't know how many muslims work in transports sector. There are many. Rebuilding a Cathedral is a such a task that it will have for sure an impact on economy, because it will involve several sectors from cimentery/wood, electricians, roofs makers, transoporters for all the materials needed, and many others that I forgot here.Who said workers, said also impact on foods sellers. And when the project will be finished, all the transports companies (taxis etc) for the tourism (hotels, restaurants etc).

So yes it will have a serious impact on severals small businesses owned by people of differents faith.
Nobody need you scrutinity. Only Allah's scrutinity is important. But thank you very much the scrutinity you do for which nobody asked you to do, because nobody knows who you are...

A church which is under the protection of Muslims and has been destroyed by rioters is a different case to a mostly unused muesem burning through an accident in a rich foreign country. They are not comparable.

You didn't get my point. My point is uniting a nation, because yes there are French, Muslims French and Muslims too, who were born here, so the economy of France has a direct impact on our situation. And from our situation depends also our funding for our mosques.

I've seen people/organisations asking for mosques online and on TV shows. It's not as old school as you think. And if you do think the process of finding funding for mosques can become more digital and efficient then go do something about it.

Did you saw on french channels ? I was talking about Muslims in France. I never saw any ads for that nor on internet.

I think you suffer from an inferiority complex whereas in your mind western countries are some perfect places to whom you owe favours. You owe them nothing. Similarly I owe Britain nothing. My dad works and pays his taxes which directly contribute to things like free health care and education. I have worked, I have paid taxes too. The french state does not provide these things out of kindness, the only countries who really do offer these things to their citizens for free are the small oil rich counties who don't require taxes from their citizens in return such as Bruinei.

inferiority complex ? you are talking without knowing me. Whenever I had to defend muslims or Pakistan against what you call white people at my work, I did it with full force.
Taking care of does not mean inferiority complex. Inferiority complex is what i saw among pakistanis and africans who use cream to whiten their skin.

About owing something or not to these countries, i dont know about UK, but French people struggled to have the system they have. We are enjoying this system. So yes I care for it, and it could continue to work if i take care of its economy. Yes its not free, but when i was young my father's salary was below the taxation limite. He didn't pay any other taxes apart the one on National Security System (Health system) which is very low compared to what paid the company for which he was working for and the VAT. It is a repartition system.
So I can safely say that i benefited of good quality free school and a free good health system. And all that without bothering about my faith. This is what is called Equality.

And unfortunately France dont have petrol like Brunei and others.

But sure I'm used to help anyone in the need whenever I can whatever is his faith, or skin color. Does it mean that i'm having inferiority complex ? I don't know. If that is exactely the complex of inferiority then ok i accept it. And proudly ! At least by my behaviour, our christians neigbhours started to have a different opinion about Islam. Maybe it is a first step ? Only Allah know.

More often than not. People like you and me are in these countries as a direct consequence of these nations having looted our homelands in the not too distant past and so our fathers and grandfathers had to go look for a good earning life abroad. And don't get me wrong, I don't blame them for everything but it's obvious that they had a big hand in ruining our countries.

If you were born 100 or 200 years, I doubt your brown *** would've even been allowed in the place over which you're crying ever.

looting countries didn't started few years ago, or 100 or 200 years ago.

Why people immigrated in those countries ? its because they were able to start creating, innovating new technologies, new industries which we weren't able. Why ? that's another debate and in this yes the could have a hand, but as you said we are also responsible.
But History is made of loots and ruins. And the wheel turned, is turning and will turn again in the future.

We are living in present time, not in past time or 100 or 200 years ago. Wake up we are in 21st century.

Noone's going to convert to Islam because you became upset over a muesem/mostly unused church being burnt down. You know that's most likely true and so do I. If you want to convert people to Islam so badly - go join a dawah organisation.

I know what's important but I'm afraid you do not.

I don't know where yu saw i was upset, maybe it's because my english is not good enough so i maybe i expressed my opinion in a wrong way.

Accidents happened everywhere. It happened yesterday to friends of relatives of my family in law in UK. But Alhamdulliah they have been protected by Allah and left hospital despite the car being totally destroyed and their injuries.
I never said that by giving the link here and by taking care of France someone wil become muslim, but i saw many frenchs converting because they saw what are truly some muslims.
I had met those french converted and i talked to them about their shahada etc et they clerly told me that was because they saw very kind persons who turned out to be muslims and then they started to have interests in studying Islam.... yep their was a first step from muslims who lead to their conversion.

As i said by my general behaviour the could. Only Allah know.


The riches are giving money because they kniw they will benefit from taxe refund law. So after all we will still have to pay it indirectly. Now some voices raised this issue, and the rich people who promised to give millions have also said that they wont apply for tax refunds.

I agree its a very complex situation. And per my feelings and knowloedge and according to what is important to me, i have posted this link for people who are interested. That's all.