Breaking news: Shahed 129 (Iranian UAV )

[SOHEIL]

2ndly It doesn't necessarily have to be SATCOM!

سردار امیرعلی حاجی زاده فرمانده نیروی هوافضای سپاه در گفت وگو با خبرنگار دفاعی خبرگزاری فارس ، علت ایجاد تغییر در دماغه پهپاد دوربُرد «شاهد 129» را افزودن قابلیت امکان ارتباط ماهواره ای در این پهپاد عنوان کرد. - مدل جدید پهپاد شاهد 129 - حاجی زاده تاکید کرد: در مدل جدید، توان حمل محموله نیز 100 کیلوگرم افزایش یافته است. - فرمانده نیروی هوافضای سپاه تصریح کرد: این پهپاد هم اکنون عملیاتی شده و در خدمت سپاه است

 

[AmirPatriot]

سردار امیرعلی حاجی زاده فرمانده نیروی هوافضای سپاه در گفت وگو با خبرنگار دفاعی خبرگزاری فارس ، علت ایجاد تغییر در دماغه پهپاد دوربُرد «شاهد 129» را افزودن قابلیت امکان ارتباط ماهواره ای در این پهپاد عنوان کرد. - مدل جدید پهپاد شاهد 129 - حاجی زاده تاکید کرد: در مدل جدید، توان حمل محموله نیز 100 کیلوگرم افزایش یافته است. - فرمانده نیروی هوافضای سپاه تصریح کرد: این پهپاد هم اکنون عملیاتی شده و در خدمت سپاه است

But which satellites?

 

[SOHEIL]

But which satellites?

 

[agarrao a las kalandrakas]

But which satellites?

Jajajaja

Iran is master of deception.

 

[VEVAK]

سردار امیرعلی حاجی زاده فرمانده نیروی هوافضای سپاه در گفت وگو با خبرنگار دفاعی خبرگزاری فارس ، علت ایجاد تغییر در دماغه پهپاد دوربُرد «شاهد 129» را افزودن قابلیت امکان ارتباط ماهواره ای در این پهپاد عنوان کرد. - مدل جدید پهپاد شاهد 129 - حاجی زاده تاکید کرد: در مدل جدید، توان حمل محموله نیز 100 کیلوگرم افزایش یافته است. - فرمانده نیروی هوافضای سپاه تصریح کرد: این پهپاد هم اکنون عملیاتی شده و در خدمت سپاه است

He still didn't specify what carrier as he shouldn't but I doubt it would be SATCOM series they are too old...

It's quite possible the Russians gave Iran access to military grade satellite communication specially since Iran, Russia, Syria & Iraq are all now sharing intel and the Shahed-129 play's a big part in gathering intel and carrying out attacks against ISIS.

Shahed-129 is currently more than sufficient to go up against current threats in the region but sooner or later Iran will need to take the next step and start mass production of a Turboprop & Turbojet UAV's & UCAV's... The only reason we haven't so far has more to do with money not technology!

I personally prefer increasing Iranian UAV's autonomies capabilities over any satellite communication... And the fact that Iran was able to hack a U.S. RQ-170 is prof that current sat connections are just not reliable enough..

But which satellites?

Why would they ever provide that information?

 

[AmirPatriot]

Why would they ever provide that information?

It was more of a rhetorical question. I'm referring to the fact that Iran doesn't have any SATCOM capable satellites in orbit (or waiting for launch), since these satellites need to be in GEO. And there's no point saying "you never know" because the Americans can track satellites launched anywhere in the world, and they would have raised hell over it.

It's quite possible the Russians gave Iran access to military grade satellite communication specially

The Russians don't have a SATCOM capable UAV (or any substantial UAV program to speak of), and a SATCOM capable satellite is questionable. Its unclear how ordinary communications satellites could be re-purposed for controlling a UAV. In any case, its highly, highly unlikely that the Russians have given Iran access to anything nearly as strategic as satellite access. Our past experiences with Russia shows us that. Unfortunately, they don't trust us (for whatever reason), and we don't really trust them.

Iranian UAV's autonomies capabilities

Autonomous capabilities are a hazy issue when it comes to using UCAVs, which are the real kicker when it comes to developing our unmanned capabilities. The decision making and flexibility that a human can provide is preferred just in case of any issues or problems in combat.

Iran was able to hack a U.S. RQ-170 is prof that current sat connections

American UAVs are equipped with emergency measures to return to base if satellite communication is cut. Iran didn't take control of the RQ-170, it jammed its satellite signal and then its spoofed its GPS signal so it would think its base was in Iran. Very clever thing to do, and it was exploiting a vulnerability there. But you can't have a MALE/HALE UAV without GPS, you need that precision, especially for using PGMs. Its just a risk that needs to be taken. Iran took the RQ-170 probably after weeks or months of observing its schedule and time of operations, and then stationed the Avtobaza ELINT to land it instead of shooting it down, since its a high value asset and reverse engineering would be valuable. Iran's current regional adversaries can either make their own capable UAVs (Israel) and would just shoot down Iranian UAVs (in any case, Hezbollah can operate smaller tactical UAVs from where they are, no need to send an Iranian UAV all the way) or they are incapable of making any UAVs to speak of (Arab countries) and would also shoot it down.

 

[VEVAK]

It was more of a rhetorical question. I'm referring to the fact that Iran doesn't have any SATCOM capable satellites in orbit (or waiting for launch), since these satellites need to be in GEO. And there's no point saying "you never know" because the Americans can track satellites launched anywhere in the world, and they would have raised hell over it..

Medonam azeezam

Iran right now only has a single Sina-1 in orbit and that is the main reason why I am against a manned launch at this point in time!

The Russians don't have a SATCOM capable UAV (or any substantial UAV program to speak of), and a SATCOM capable satellite is questionable. Its unclear how ordinary communications satellites could be re-purposed for controlling a UAV. In any case, its highly, highly unlikely that the Russians have given Iran access to anything nearly as strategic as satellite access. Our past experiences with Russia shows us that. Unfortunately, they don't trust us (for whatever reason), and we don't really trust them. .

So far Russia has sent +154 Satellites in GEO to put that in perspective for you the next country on that list is China with only 55! So yes they have more than enough communication satellites


And yes they do

Autonomous capabilities are a hazy issue when it comes to using UCAVs, which are the real kicker when it comes to developing our unmanned capabilities. The decision making and flexibility that a human can provide is preferred just in case of any issues or problems in combat..

They'll do just fine against fixed targets...

American UAVs are equipped with emergency measures to return to base if satellite communication is cut. Iran didn't take control of the RQ-170, it jammed its satellite signal and then its spoofed its GPS signal so it would think its base was in Iran. Very clever thing to do, and it was exploiting a vulnerability there. But you can't have a MALE/HALE UAV without GPS, you need that precision, especially for using PGMs. Its just a risk that needs to be taken. Iran took the RQ-170 probably after weeks or months of observing its schedule and time of operations, and then stationed the Avtobaza ELINT to land it instead of shooting it down, since its a high value asset and reverse engineering would be valuable. Iran's current regional adversaries can either make their own capable UAVs (Israel) and would just shoot down Iranian UAVs (in any case, Hezbollah can operate smaller tactical UAVs from where they are, no need to send an Iranian UAV all the way) or they are incapable of making any UAVs to speak of (Arab countries) and would also shoot it down.

Cruise missiles do just fines with precision the only reason UAV's use GPS is because it's "cheaper" and not because train counter mapping is any less accurate in fact with today's tech it's the other way around... today storing & processing data has become cheaper, smaller and less expensive and it will continue to do so and image counter mapping will be they way of the future when it comes to military applications.

 

[AmirPatriot]

Medonam azeezam
So far Russia has sent +154 Satellites in GEO to put that in perspective for you the next country on that list is China with only 55! So yes they have more than enough communication satellites

I didn't say they didn't have communication satellites. I said their satellites may not be suitable for controlling UAVs.

And yes they do

Can you give a name of these, or a link where I can find information about them? I'm intrigued.

They'll do just fine against fixed targets...

What if the UCAV has gone off course, or has technical issues? You don't want to randomly drop that limited payload in the middle of nowhere, or worse, on a hospital or civilian area. A human being has greater flexibility in diagnosing and fixing these issues. If the UCAV is, for example, malfunctioning, has lost calibration, whatever, you could turn it right around and return it to base manually for repairs.

train counter mapping

As for terrain mapping, it has its limitations. Suppose Iran reverse engineers the RQ-170 and weaponizes it. That can fly at up to 50,000 ft. You really want to fly it at high altitude so it doesn't get detected as easily, by noise, sight, infrared or radar. In addition to this, any Precision Guided Munitions (smart bombs etc.) will have a greater range from that altitude. But at 50,000 ft, the cameras needed to use it in a terrain mapping are far too large and heavy for a UCAV. GPS is actually better because you don't need to "see" the ground.

Also I should add, to fly as efficiently as possible you need to fly at reasonably high altitude. Loitering at low altitude has higher air density and therefore higher drag, resulting in less efficiency and shorter range.

Basically, if you use terrain mapping you are limiting yourself to excessively low altitudes. Cruise missiles only use this in order to fly at ultra low altitudes to evade radar. Its too much of a hassle to do that with UAVs, where you just need to fly high.

 

[VEVAK]

I

As for terrain mapping, it has its limitations. Suppose Iran reverse engineers the RQ-170 and weaponizes it. That can fly at up to 50,000 ft. .

.

Due to the fact that memory storage devices have become smaller, lighter and cheaper Iranian UAV's can now carry detailed map of the entire region meaning your onboard instruments can approximate it's location so all you need really is laser range finder and some clever programing and you will get an accurate location over land!!!

And yes you can not rely on this system alone so it will be one of many navigational instruments you have onboard BUT it will be one of your passive instruments that can also find accurate target information on the ground!

Iran has already started on it's land based regional positioning system but you can't use that as your only navigational instrument

 

[Aramagedon]

ah ah ah, bazia che ghadr yave migan

 

[AmirPatriot]

Due to the fact that memory storage devices have become smaller, lighter and cheaper Iranian UAV's can now carry detailed map of the entire region meaning your onboard instruments can approximate it's location so all you need really is laser range finder and some clever programing and you will get an accurate location over land!!!

And yes you can not rely on this system alone so it will be one of many navigational instruments you have onboard BUT it will be one of your passive instruments that can also find accurate target information on the ground!

Iran has already started on it's land based regional positioning system but you can't use that as your only navigational instrument

I don't believe this man... look, there is absolutely no fucking way a MALE UAV that flies at 25,000+ ft is going to use terrain contour matching as navigational aid. Even cruise missiles only use it to make an INS system more accurate. Terrain contour matching is used by cruise missiles because they fly very very low and hence use terrain mapping in order to prevent crashing into the side of elevations.

MALE UAVs fly so high that a terrain contour matching sensor would be way too large, heavy and expensive. Large, heavy and expensive is the exact opposite of the whole philosophy of UAVs. Then you have the issue of cloud cover, and getting the images in the first place (surprise! Satellites!).

Get this ridiculous idea out of your head... no way can this system be used to help a UAV navigate at any reasonable altitude. It just won't.

 

[VEVAK]

I don't believe this man... look, there is absolutely no fucking way a MALE UAV that flies at 25,000+ ft is going to use terrain contour matching as navigational aid. Even cruise missiles only use it to make an INS system more accurate. Terrain contour matching is used by cruise missiles because they fly very very low and hence use terrain mapping in order to prevent crashing into the side of elevations.

MALE UAVs fly so high that a terrain contour matching sensor would be way too large, heavy and expensive. Large, heavy and expensive is the exact opposite of the whole philosophy of UAVs. Then you have the issue of cloud cover, and getting the images in the first place (surprise! Satellites!).

Get this ridiculous idea out of your head... no way can this system be used to help a UAV navigate at any reasonable altitude. It just won't.

We just have to agree to disagree buddy!

Fact is just like with future driverless cars that will use image, laser & or radar counter mapping this also will be the future & just like with the car GPS will only be an addition navigation system...

plus any UAV reliant on GPS type navigation will never be able to accurately navigate in an area where signals are being jammed! That is the reality of modern war! and unless your UAV has an independent Internal navigation system then it is useless against any real enemy

And in terms of cost a lot of the sub systems you need are already installed on the UAV anyway targeting system with a multiple camera's, laser range finder, etc.. and if your truly producing them at home then the increase in price will be will worth it...

Before you can have a counter mapping softer you 1st need a map and this is what Iran should be working on because this is the way of the future

 

[AmirPatriot]

We just have to agree to disagree buddy!

Fact is just like with future driverless cars that will use image, laser & or radar counter mapping this also will be the future & just like with the car GPS will only be an addition navigation system...

plus any UAV reliant on GPS type navigation will never be able to accurately navigate in an area where signals are being jammed! That is the reality of modern war! and unless your UAV has an independent Internal navigation system then it is useless against any real enemy

And in terms of cost a lot of the sub systems you need are already installed on the UAV anyway targeting system with a multiple camera's, laser range finder, etc.. and if your truly producing them at home then the increase in price will be will worth it...

Before you can have a counter mapping softer you 1st need a map and this is what Iran should be working on because this is the way of the future

Cars are on the ground, not 25,000 ft in the air. Terrain contour mapping is not reliable nor cheap enough to be used for navigation.

 

[VEVAK]

Cars are on the ground, not 25,000 ft in the air. Terrain contour mapping is not reliable nor cheap enough to be used for navigation.

1st it was that they didn't have the range (If you watched the video u now know that's absolute nonsense) now they are not cheap enough!

The most expensive part of terrain counter mapping is the actual mapping that you have to do before you can have a counter mapping navigation system on the aircraft

AND again, most of the equipment you need for such a system have to be already installed on MALE UAV's anyway so the difference in price is not much in terms of equipment required onboard!!!

GPS like it or not is not a reliable system for military applications due to jamming and detection and that is the reality of modern warfare!

 

[AmirPatriot]

1st it was that they didn't have the range (If you watched the video u now know that's absolute nonsense) now they are not cheap enough!

The most expensive part of terrain counter mapping is the actual mapping that you have to do before you can have a counter mapping navigation system on the aircraft

AND again, most of the equipment you need for such a system have to be already installed on MALE UAV's anyway so the difference in price is not much in terms of equipment required onboard!!!

GPS like it or not is not a reliable system for military applications due to jamming and detection and that is the reality of modern warfare!

Stop living in your dreamworld. Terrain contour mapping is unreliable at best for use at high altitudes, due to cloud cover. And at high altitudes, you need huge, heavy, expensive cameras to see the ground in enough detail from over 25,000 ft. Huge heavy and expensive is not going to work unless you also have something huge heavy and expensive to carry it, like the global hawk you showed. FYI, that costs $220 million each.

In the end, conventional INS and GPS is a more accurate, lighter, cheaper, more reliable system.