BREAKING NEWS: LAL MASJID

[A.Rahman]

LATEST NEWS ON AAJ TV

*15 Terrorist using kids as Human shield were trying to escape from the LM but security forces did quick operation and manged to get the kids free and take these fifteen men into custody...

 

[Bull]

you are seeing it right now

Whats happening is a reaction, whats needed is action, a proactive one.

There are reports coming in where the parents and students have come out saying hardened militants from varioys relegious groups use to address groups of male and female students in the masjid . And inspite of knowing all these they send them inside? Why?

If the govt doesnt decide to keep a tab on these madrassas, this issue would be repeated somewhere else.

Is it possible to nationalise the madrassas and keep the mullahs on govt payrolls? Anyways Pakistan is a mulim country, right?

 

[araz]

you are seeing it right now

Although I can see the reason for your answer, and the logic behind it in this particular case, I dont agree with you with this measure being a long term stance. You can only treat this infestation by educating people in the true way that islam should be followed. A country where people have given up reading and more importantly understanding the Quran and its message of universal peace and literally handed over this resposibility to the Mullah, who- with a few very notable exceptions is not aware of the world around him and the Quranic logic behind various statements is put in a position of authority where he is sometimes"FORCED" by circumstances to make statements the gravity of which he himself does not understand_ is a recipy for disaster. Only by mass education not only in sciences and sociology and other civic sciences as well as true understanding of the Quran and Sunnah can we prevent ourselves from the Sycophants like the Lal Masjid lot. I am afraid as much as some of you like Musharraf his whisky drinking version of "Enlightened moderation in Islam" will only lead us into more trouble.We are increasingly seing a polarised societywhich will only lead to more confrontation In his case the best way is to try and rule a secular state and not try to use the "Islamic Card" My 2 Ps worth

 

[Samudra]

There are reports coming in where the parents and students have come out saying hardened militants from varioys relegious groups use to address groups of male and female students in the masjid . And inspite of knowing all these they send them inside? Why?

By god, if i ever get a chance, I will kill these
bastards, than have those lil kids indoctrinated with hate and bigotry

They those who put these little ones in that wretched place shall share the guilt as well.

Lal Masjid is studied in isolation. There are so many of these Lal Masjids in the world. What of the kids studying there ?

Just how many can you kill to 'save' the kids when their very parents are putting them in places like these ?

There is a bigger problem related directly to religion - it will never be acknowledged. Infact this very post will be contested.

 

[Chrome9]

They those who put these little ones in that wretched place shall share the guilt as well.

Lal Masjid is studied in isolation. There are so many of these Lal Masjids in the world. What of the kids studying there ?

Just how many can you kill to 'save' the kids when their very parents are putting them in places like these ?

There is a bigger problem related directly to religion - it will never be acknowledged. Infact this very post will be contested.

Nope the problem isn't madrasaah's. Pakistan has said many time that they are proud of their madrassah's. The problem is that when these madrassah's are being used for millitancy. You don't understand but these madrassah's do produce knowledgable Ulema's and hafiz-e-qurans who don't go around shooting people. As seen the vast majority of those who escaped Lal Masjid were just innocent kids, many whom havn't ever fired a kalashnikov. This is Lal Masjid we re talking about here, arguably the most fiery and militand madrassa in Pakistan. Closing down all these Madrassah's isnt the solution, what is the solution is more government control over how they are run and more accountability and transparency. I also advocate Madrassah's teach more academic subjects.
In short the Madrassa's don't need to be closed down but they definately need to be reformed.

 

[Bull]

Nope the problem isn't madrasaah's. Pakistan has said many time that they are proud of their madrassah's. The problem is that when these madrassah's are being used for millitancy. You don't understand but these madrassah's do produce knowledgable Ulema's and hafiz-e-qurans who don't go around shooting people. As seen the vast majority of those who escaped Lal Masjid were just innocent kids, many whom havn't ever fired a kalashnikov. This is Lal Masjid we re talking about here, arguably the most fiery and militand madrassa in Pakistan. Closing down all these Madrassah's isnt the solution, what is the solution is more government control over how they are run and more accountability and transparency. I also advocate Madrassah's teach more academic subjects.
In short the Madrassa's don't need to be closed down but they definately need to be reformed.

Who has the guts to do that? Lal masjid existed from ' 65 onwards. It was initally used as a recruitment ground to fight the Russians in Afghanistan, even OBL was there. The govt knew abt all these, now all of a sudden they are in bad light. Got the drift. Pakistan has done the grave mistake of mixing relegion with politics.

 

[Chrome9]

Well that's a good question Bull, I mean who has the resolve to go around and reform all these madrassa's? This has to be a collective effort with the citizens and the government of the country. The citezens and those who sent their children should be more involved with what is being taught. Instead of being kept in the dark and isolated from their childerns education. The government itself should look into ways to reform. At the end of the day Guts/courge has to be mustered up from somewhere to prevent LAl Masjid take 2. Otherwise being too lenient and not taking action will just cause more carnage later. On the note of how exactly the madrassah's should and can be changed, well thats a whole new discussion in itself isn't it?
Bottom line is not closing down but reforming.

 

[Bull]

Well that's a good question Bull, I mean who has the resolve to go around and reform all these madrassa's? This has to be a collective effort with the citizens and the government of the country. The citezens and those who sent their children should be more involved with what is being taught. Instead of being kept in the dark and isolated from their childerns education. The government itself should look into ways to reform. At the end of the day Guts/courge has to be mustered up from somewhere to prevent LAl Masjid take 2. Otherwise being too lenient and not taking action will just cause more carnage later. On the note of how exactly the madrassah's should and can be changed, well thats a whole new discussion in itself isn't it?
Bottom line is not closing down but reforming.

The parents are subject to relegious blackmail, thats the only reason why i see them sending students over there.

If a mullah walks in to your house and says 'Allah demands your son to be ga ga' how many poor parents can speak against him or try reasoning the statement. Nobody can.

 

[Adux]

Seperation of Church and State is the reason Christain nations came out of their Dark Ages and as developed countries, Politics and Religion is a dangerous cocktail

 

[blain2]

Seperation of Church and State is the reason Christain nations came out of their Dark Ages and as developed countries, Politics and Religion is a dangerous cocktail

That is your opinion and that of many others but not of Muslims. Islam advises religious and temporal powers to be consolidated.

 

[Bull]

That is your opinion and that of many others but not of Muslims. Islam advises religious and temporal powers to be consolidated.

And then you have the worlds worst mess.

 

[blain2]

The parents are subject to relegious blackmail, thats the only reason why i see them sending students over there.

If a mullah walks in to your house and says 'Allah demands your son to be ga ga' how many poor parents can speak against him or try reasoning the statement. Nobody can.

I am sorry to say this but this shows your utter lack of understanding about the whole issue unfortunately. The reason people go to Madrassa is not because they are blackmailed what: ), rather its simple economics. Madrassas are subject to donations by the public, thus they are able to provide more services to kin of poor. Their children get and Islamic education, lodging and food for free and to most people in conservative rural areas who are religiously conservatives, this is a Godsend. If the govt. invested more money in local schools and social welfare, these people would have alternates. I have seen Madrassas in Pakistan which are on totally different frequency than what some of the minority of Madrassas are involved in. Some have poltical patrons and even get money from fringe elements and this results in their curricula catering to more radical ideas and motivation.

Madrassas are an essential part of an Islamic society. Their reformation has to come from within starting off with the traditional ulema of Islam taking more robust stands against the extremist elements.

 

[blain2]

Pakistani SF (Most probably SSG elements) operators outside of LM:

 

[Bull]

Why are they not in uniform???

 

[Bull]

I am sorry to say this but this shows your utter lack of understanding about the whole issue unfortunately. The reason people go to Madrassa is not because they are blackmailed what: ), rather its simple economics. Madrassas are subject to donations by the public, thus they are able to provide more services to kin of poor. Their children get and Islamic education, lodging and food for free and to most people in conservative rural areas who are religiously conservatives, this is a Godsend. If the govt. invested more money in local schools and social welfare, these people would have alternates. I have seen Madrassas in Pakistan which are on totally different frequency than what some of the minority of Madrassas are involved in. Some have poltical patrons and even get money from fringe elements and this results in their curricula catering to more radical ideas and motivation.

Madrassas are an essential part of an Islamic society. Their reformation has to come from within starting off with the traditional ulema of Islam taking more robust stands against the extremist elements.

I was speaking specifically abt parents sneding them to those 'notorious' madrassas, not generalising.