Breaking news: AirAsia plane missing with 162 passengers!

[mujhaidind]

Inna lillahi wa Inna Ilaihi Raji’un

 

[powastick]

 

[Lux de Veritas]

Singapore Arm Forces moving in for search and rescue.

 

[imiakhtar]

What's up with Malaysian air lines

Nothing to do with Malaysia.

I will never take Malaysian planes!

Nothing to do with Malaysia.

They are not bankrupt yet?

Air Asia is one of the most profitable Loco around. They have numerous subsidiaries in other ountries.

Air Asia Indonesia is one of their subsidiaries HOWEVER, it is not 100% owned and IMPORTANTLY, the point that most here are missing is that it is operated on a SEPARATE INDONESIAN operating certificate

Poor Malaysians,

Poor people, most weren't Malays.

2014 is worst year for air traffic in my life i have seen till now.

You can't be very old then.

Whats going on Malaysia?

Nothing to do with Malaysia.

airline from Malaysia.

Separate operation. Nothing to do with Malaysia.

Whats with Malaysia

Nothing to do with Malaysia.

Malaysia is going through a dark period in aviation

Nothing to do with Malaysia.

Malaysia is sure a bad place to fly

No worse than India.

what the hell is going on with malaysian civil aviation ?!?!?!

Nothing to do with Malaysia.

There is massive cloud in Jakarta Today.

Normal for South East Asia.

Bad weather over that region.

That's regularly the case. Nothing abnormal today or out of the ordinary.

They need to make planes being able to survive ocean crashes.

Ha.

It shouldnt be too hard.

Ha ha.

Air Asia management in the earlier hours refused to admit that his plan was missing that causes late rescue operation

Flight plans change all the time especially when there are CBs to navigate around. Indonesian SAR should concentrate on last known position from radar feeds. To their credit, this is what they're doing.

in my opinion it should be reviewed whether it is a criminal act or not.

Nonsense man.

it falls freely without any control, side ways, upside down, spinning.

Actually you're wrong. Most stalls in civil aircraft are relatively benign and easily recoverable.

For example, when the Air France A330 (AF447) stalled, the pilots still had lateral (and pitch) control.

Some times hydraulics fail completely.

Stalls and hydraulic failures are independent.

Every stall report I've read, whether it be Air France 447, Bergenair 757 or just a Cessna 152, hydraulics are working.

If the weather was bad, the jet streams could have caused the plane to dip or stall uncontrolled, but seeing at the cruise speed, which was almost 900 kms per hour. I doubt if it was jet stream.

Too simplistic to look at stall in terms of airspeed and (to put it bluntly), it is incorrect to do so.

Read up on angle of attack.

especially Malaysia

Especially Indonesia.

This was a PK registered aircraft which means it was flying on the Indonesian aircraft register and under Indonesian regulatory oversight.

 

[Screambowl]

Actually you're wrong. Most stalls in civil aircraft are relatively benign and easily recoverable.

For example, when the Air France A330 (AF447) stalled, the pilots still had lateral (and pitch) control.



Stalls and hydraulic failures are independent.

Every stall report I've read, whether it be Air France 447, Bergenair 757 or just a Cessna 152, hydraulics are working.



Too simplistic to look at stall in terms of airspeed and (to put it bluntly), it is incorrect to do so.

Read up on angle of attack.



Especially Indonesia.

This was a PK registered aircraft which means it was flying on the Indonesian aircraft register and under Indonesian regulatory oversight.

The point you have not understood that is once the aircraft falls uncontrolled, it is its momentum against which the controls fail to work. In some cases, yes they work.

If the plane stalls , (Deep stall) nose up, that is what I am taking about. It becomes unrecoverable.

 

[imiakhtar]

it is its momentum against which the controls fail to work. In some cases, yes they work.

Again momentum has nothing to do with it.

I was at the joint Boeing Airbus stall lecture last year given at the Royal Aero Society in London. The video of which, minus the airbus and boeing test stall footage, is available on youtube.

I asked Terry Lutz (Airbus test pilot, former USAF T-38 and F-16 test pilot) about the stall characteristics of airbus airliners with the context around the A330 stall with Air France.

As you may know, the aircraft stalled at approximately 38000ft and after a rate of descent exceeding 10000foot/minute, it belly flopped into the South Atlantic.

Now, throughout the free fall, the aircraft was traveling with a forward speed in excess of 100 knots and even in a stalled state, it responded to control inputs.

According to Airbus test pilots I've spoken to, the aircraft would have had enough dynamic pressure (q) to effect a recovery from about 25000ft.

If the plane stalls , (Deep stall) nose up, that is what I am taking about. It becomes unrecoverable.

We're talking civil airliners here with conventional wings and conventional tails, not delta winged jet fighters which often exhibit the stall characteristics you're referring to or the old T tail designs which are rare in commercial airliners.

Dynamic Pressure

 

[Screambowl]

Again momentum has nothing to do with it.

I was at the joint Boeing Airbus stall lecture last year given at the Royal Aero Society in London. The video of which, minus the airbus and boeing test stall footage, is available on youtube.

I asked Terry Lutz (Airbus test pilot, former USAF T-38 and F-16 test pilot) about the stall characteristics of airbus airliners with the context around the A330 stall with Air France.

As you may know, the aircraft stalled at approximately 38000ft and after a rate of descent exceeding 10000foot/minute, it belly flopped into the South Atlantic.

Now, throughout the free fall, the aircraft was traveling with a forward speed in excess of 100 knots and even in a stalled state, it responded to control inputs.

According to Airbus test pilots I've spoken to, the aircraft would have had enough dynamic pressure (q) to effect a recovery from about 25000ft.



We're talking civil airliners here with conventional wings and conventional tails, not delta winged jet fighters which often exhibit the stall characteristics you're referring to or the old T tail designs which are rare in commercial airliners.

Dynamic Pressure

It belly flopped after the impact, and stalled deep nose up.

Of course, the plane was stalling for 3min but instruments kept showing wrong readings. But that stall was recoverable if they had the correct reading.

 

[imiakhtar]

But that stall was recoverable if they had the correct reading.

Like I said, speed is meaningless in a stall. Angle of attack is what the wings "see" and is all they care about.

Having the Indicated Air Speed would not have helped them.

The stall recovery procedures for Airbus and Boeing aircraft make no mention of speed during stall recovery because it isn't relevant.

The procedures emphasise pitching nose down to reduce the angle of attack first.

 

[Screambowl]

Like I said, speed is meaningless in a stall. Angle of attack is what the wings "see" and is all they care about.

Having the Indicated Air Speed would not have helped them.

The stall recovery procedures for Airbus and Boeing aircraft make no mention of speed during stall recovery because it isn't relevant.

The procedures emphasise pitching nose down to reduce the angle of attack first.

well, had they were aware of the accurate speed or some sense of stalling they could have reacted. Multiple warnings on air speed and stall, when instruments are showing wrong data, confuses the pilot.

 

[guitar01]

There are several flights nearby when the plane went missing, I wonder if they encounter particularly severe turbulence over that area. On websites such as turbulenceforecast com we can see pilot reports of turbulence, but only over the US. Such information would be massively helpful if only it is available this part of the globe.
Deepest condolences for the relatives. Pray they have the strength to carry on.

 

[imiakhtar]

well, had they were aware of the accurate speed or some sense of stalling they could have reacted.

There have been hundreds of pitot icing events like that on AF447. No aircraft manufacturer is immune to them. That is why the aircraft OEMs have unreliable airspeed procedures which will ensure the aircraft will continue flying.

AF447 didn't follow the procedure.

The rest is history.

 

[Rocket science]

What's up with Malaysian air lines, hope everyone is safe.

I observed why its Malaysian .... its the advantage that they don't have strong politics and army and they won't try their best to investigate the planner knows they cannot do anything its not missing its been kidnapped

 

[Joeblow]

You can't be very old then.

This is more an academic question. What other years did the world lose 3 passenger jetliners?

 

[Screambowl]

There have been hundreds of pitot icing events like that on AF447. No aircraft manufacturer is immune to them. That is why the aircraft OEMs have unreliable airspeed procedures which will ensure the aircraft will continue flying.

AF447 didn't follow the procedure.

The rest is history.

Well at night, if you fly through storm and you do not have proper altitude and speed. Then it is just luck! Procedures help when you know the exact reason of malfunction. How would a pilot know when is the pitot frozen and when not? In the next minute it's back online and the other again frozen. That is tough.

 

[imiakhtar]

if you fly through storm and you do not have proper altitude

Altitude was correct at all times. Only the airspeed was unreliable.

Wasn't much of a storm. Only light to moderate turbulence too.

How would a pilot know when is the pitot frozen and when not?

Speeds disagree. Check the ECAM.

In the next minute it's back online and the other again frozen. That is tough.

If the speeds continue to disagree, you fly pitch and power.

Simples.

I've done it in a Kingair under icing conditions into Geneva. Just as easy for an A330 or A320.