Breaking: Information Minister Pervaiz Rasheed fired by PM

[Javad]

I hope Pervez Rashid have the courage to ask for forgivesness and the courage to expose Nawaz Sharif and his croonies. He might restore some of his dented respect this way.

 

[F.O.X]

Sir, I am sure that is the case. I have a friend here who is doing his MBA in the same institute where I am doing my PhD. His father is actually a sitting General at some big post. He decided to work in his dad's part time business and wants to grow it after he goes back with his MBA. He puts it very bluntly and I mean no offense by it. He says the reason Pakistani politicians, institutions, etc, could not grow was because of the military rule about 85% of the country's lifetime. How would you answer to that? And if its true, in your kind opinion, what should happen inside Pakistan to mature the institutions? This answer would actually help my thesis as well. Thank you in advance.

If you are good at math . . . I don't think any one else needs to answer this . . . .

 

[salarsikander]

Sir, I am sure that is the case. I have a friend here who is doing his MBA in the same institute where I am doing my PhD. His father is actually a sitting General at some big post. He decided to work in his dad's part time business and wants to grow it after he goes back with his MBA. He puts it very bluntly and I mean no offense by it. He says the reason Pakistani politicians, institutions, etc, could not grow was because of the military rule about 85% of the country's lifetime. How would you answer to that? And if its true, in your kind opinion, what should happen inside Pakistan to mature the institutions? This answer would actually help my thesis as well. Thank you in advance.

Again Stop presenting unverifiable sources such as' My friend, I know'' and the likes of it which carries no significance value. Try something better next time. You sure do sound a lot less like the Previous so-called American viper we had.

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

Sir, I am sure that is the case. I have a friend here who is doing his MBA in the same institute where I am doing my PhD. His father is actually a sitting General at some big post. He decided to work in his dad's part time business and wants to grow it after he goes back with his MBA. He puts it very bluntly and I mean no offense by it. He says the reason Pakistani politicians, institutions, etc, could not grow was because of the military rule about 85% of the country's lifetime. How would you answer to that? And if its true, in your kind opinion, what should happen inside Pakistan to mature the institutions? This answer would actually help my thesis as well. Thank you in advance.

It's a pretty long discussion, so you will have to get a book to read about it.
In short, I would say that, Military rule has been 50/% since Independence. Details can be found on the net.

Our politicians who are selected as members of Parliament are mostly (90%) simple graduates. All of them have their own businesses and while being members of parliament and ministers, they only are interested in their businesses and making money for themselves.

To mature institutions, education standards should be increased to a level, which can produce capable politicians, who actually know what they are supposed to do.
The other thing is conflict of interest, which has to be controlled.

 

[DJ_Viper]

Again Stop presenting unverifiable sources such as' My friend, I know'' and the likes of it which carries no significance value. Try something better next time. You sure do sound a lot less like the Previous so-called American viper we had.

Sir, To be frank with you, you don't get to tell me what I should or shouldn't write. I could say the same thing about you. Stop acting immature and write posts with some real facts. So far, I am seeing verbal issues, no concrete evidence of anything you write, including this post. Respect goes both ways and I was taught at an early age that its "earned" not given by default. If you don't like my style, perhaps don't indulge into conversations with me?

I've discussed various topics with over 40+ members so far. I have to admit, I was very impressed with everyone as they treated me with respect and courtesy. You are the first one who I've had to write a rather confrontational post to. I'd hope we either respect each other or stay away from posts as I don't like disrespect, not disrespecting anyone. Thanks

It's a pretty long discussion, so you will have to get a book to read about it.
In short, I would say that, Military rule has been 50/% since Independence. Details can be found on the net.

Our politicians who are selected as members of Parliament are mostly (90%) simple graduates. All of them have their own businesses and while being members of parliament and ministers, they only are interested in their businesses and making money for themselves.

To mature institutions, education standards should be increased to a level, which can produce capable politicians, who actually know what they are supposed to do.
The other thing is conflict of interest, which has to be controlled.

Sir, thank you very much. This small paragraph speaks oceans for issues that you didn't list yet covered indirectly and thoroughly in a few sentences.

My last question on the subject would be, how do you then create mature institutions and educational standards in a country where family system (whether in politics, business or military occupation) runs generations deep? On conflict of interest, I am totally with you. Thank you for your answers Sir. Much appreciate it.

 

[salarsikander]

Sir, To be frank with you, you don't get to tell me what I should or shouldn't write. I could say the same thing about you. Stop acting mature and write posts with some facts. So far, I am seeing verbal issues, no concrete evidence of anything you write, including this post. Respect goes both ways and I was taught at an early age that its "earned" not given by default. If you don't like my style, perhaps don't indulge into conversations with me? Thanks.

I've discussed various topics with over 40+ members so far. I have to admit, I was very impressed with everyone as they treated me with respect and courtesy. You are the first one who I've had to write a rather confrontational post to. I'd hope we either respect each other or stay away from posts as I don't like disrespect, not disrespecting anyone. Thanks

I believe we have not met before nor we will, so there is no need to be frank here. If there is something that you find very insulting or offensive please feel free to use report button.

getting back at topic I merely asked you to post with facts and not with " I know a guy who said that and blah blah'' Let's be respectful enough and post some serious information with Verifiable sources rather than word of mouth

 

[DJ_Viper]

getting back at topic I merely asked you to post with facts and not with " I know a guy who said that and blah blah'' Let's be respectful enough and post some serious information with Verifiable sources rather than word of mouth

Sir, I suggest the same to you also. Please post verifiable links. Not he said, she said comments. When I say "Real Facts", I am meaning stuff like Mr. Rashid Mahmood's post. He, in a few sentences, gave me the entire lay of the land on all major issues, yet, he didn't name one issue, or one person specifically. Have a good day Sir. Thank you for comments.

 

[salarsikander]

Sir, I suggest the same to you also. Please post verifiable links. Not he said, she said comments

I will, when I make a claim. So far I haven't made any claim as you did.

Am I to understand your failure to substantiate the claim you made be taken as your personal opinion for PML N and not the ground reality ?

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

Sir, thank you very much. This small paragraph speaks oceans for issues that you didn't list yet covered indirectly, yet, thoroughly in a few sentences.

My last question on the subject would be, how do you then create mature institutions and educational standards in a country where family system (whether in politics, business or military occupation) runs generations deep? On conflict of interest, I am totally with you. Thank you for your answers Sir. Much appreciate it.

We are just 70 years old, so its only the second generation at the helm of affairs.
Sincerity and accountability are the two things, which ensure implementation of rules and law.
When implemented with sincerity in all institutions, it will produce results, which eventually create political stability and better governance.

When the education ministry knows, that they will be held accountable for any slackness in following of rules & procedures, they will ensure that proper education is imparted to our youth.

Minimum education level for a member of Parliament should be Masters in a specialized faculty.

 

[DJ_Viper]

I will, when I make a claim. So far I haven't made any claim as you did.

Am I to understand your failure to substantiate the claim you made be taken as your personal opinion for PML N and not the ground reality ?

Sir, I have no opinion and I have no idea which post you are referring to, to be honest. My research is on this forum, people I know and the internet. I keep a margin like 70-30, in other words, if about 70% of the independent media outlets say something, I believe in that, vs. 30% others.

Now if you want to do your own research, you are welcome to. I am not here for personal affiliations of Pakistani politics. I am here to interact with folks like Mr. Rashid Mahmood so I can learn more from the horse's mouth if you will. So I have no position on anything, I am just researching. Thanks

 

[salarsikander]

I am meaning stuff like Mr. Rashid Mahmood's post.

I am unsure of How rashid mehmood's post is in any relevant to my asking for verifiable facts.

As far as Rashid's Credential are concerned. I am in no way comparable to him. The guy has earned that title for a reason. I am an old ageing member of this group that is simply asking you to provide the reasonable evidence to back up the claim you made earlier on. Which wouldn't be a much of a problem since you have already mentioned that you did some ''Google Research'' before. If it helps in anyway, you can find those 'Researches'' in History of chrome

 

[DJ_Viper]

I am unsure of How rashid mehmood's post is in any relevant to my asking for verifiable facts.

As far as Rashid's Credential are concerned. I am in no way comparable to him. The guy has earned that title for a reason. I am an old ageing member of this group that is simply asking you to provide the reasonable evidence to back up the claim you made earlier on. Which wouldn't be a much of a problem since you have already mentioned that you did some ''Google Research'' before. If it helps in anyway, you can find those 'Researches'' in History of chrome

Sir, see my post above. You and I are on like post number 10, and I've not seen anything with a verifiable link. Apparently, you are speaking with an expert authority on the subject without having to set the expert credentials in any of your post. My posts, don't have any positions. I am asking questions as logically as I am, I'll challenge others to get more out of them to learn the most I can, and I am trying to interact with people like Mr. Mahmood who obviously have wealth of knowledge. So if you can't read my repetitive rant and understand where I am coming from, perhaps, you are right, you are aging . I hope we can end this silly waste of typing on this lighter note. Thanks.

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

@salarsikander @DJ_Viper

Chill guys, everyone here learns from one another.
Let's move forward and discuss the thread topic.

 

[salarsikander]

Sir, see my post above. You and I are on like post number 10, and I've not seen anything with a verifiable link. Apparently, you are speaking with an expert authority on the subject without having to set the expert credentials in any of your post. My posts, don't have any positions. I am asking questions as logically as I am, I'll challenge others to get more out of them to learn the most I can, and I am trying to interact with people like Mr. Mahmood who obviously have wealth of knowledge. So if you can't read my repetitive rant and understand where I am coming from, perhaps, you are right, you are aging . I hope we can end this silly waste of typing on this lighter note. Thanks.

Fair enough. I will take your inability to produce a verifiable source for the US govt and the polls which state that PML N will win as a NO. It was just this simple my friend

@salarsikander @DJ_Viper

Chill guys, everyone here learns from one another.
Let's move forward and discuss the thread topic.

Hello,

Your post on accountability and sincerity was a spot on.

But when I see common educated privilege man breaking the law and feeling no remorse about it and then going on to blame on whether govt or military shows that we ourselves are deeply insincere to the society we share and live with others.

This requires a cultural shift first and then some structural reforms. Years and years of Malpractices in our institution from the very school we go in to the very job we land in for the rest of our lives, has consolidated this culture

 

[Indus Pakistan]

To mature institutions, education standards should be increased to a level, which can produce capable politicians

Disagree. In UK, one of the oldest democracies about, there is no minimum educational requirement. Fishermen have gone on to become deputy Prime Ministers.

which can produce capable politicians, who actually know what they are supposed to do.

Knowing what to do and doing that what should be done are two differant things. There is nothing that suggests to me at any rate that Pakistani elite do not know what to do. The problem is they do not do what they should do.

No amount of education will resolve this problem. You can be a Phd but thoroughly corrupt. The missing link in Pakistan (that mature nations have) is public accountability. This can only come about if the general public is literate and can think for itself. Therefore in my opinion the problem is not the lack of education amongst the ruling elite but rather the lacxk of literacy of the populace who despite everything keep voting the wrong people.

The best bet for any democracy or in fact any nation is a educated population that can think by itself, is free from religious bigotry and irrationality. China is a prime example of a country that does well even without democracy. Therefore democracy can be said to be a option on the other hand educated, rational public is a must.

*Example of irrationality can be seen in our fellow esteemed member's signature @Rashid Mahmood which suggests that everything is sorted because everything is preordained. This of course is nonsense because if everything is going to a plan why should any of us bother to do anything or make efforts to change direction as the maker has the steering wheel. This of course is absurd .