Breaking coup attempt in Venezuela.

[denel]

Socialism -- generally speaking -- is when the government owns the means of production.

A completely government health care system would mean the government employs all medical professionals, either dominate or owns the pharmaceutical companies, and manages down to the individual levels all aspects of medical and health maintenance. So yes, it would be socialism.

Social Security and Medicare are rights in the sense that I paid for those services throughout my productive yrs in the belief that when I am no longer a productive member of society because of old age, I will have some personal security until I die.


The US is a multi-party country. The Communist Party of the USA (CPUSA) is a legal entity. So are the Libertarian and many other. There are no laws that says there can be only two parties.

The US uses the 'first past the post' (FPTP) electoral process. FPTP tends to stabilize out to two dominant parties. FPTP places the burden of representation on the party itself, meaning, if the CPUSA want seats in Congress, it has to convince enough people to side with the party and vote commies into the Congress.

With proportional representation (PR), which is most of the world's goobermints, the law says if a party have X percentage of the people, X amount of seats will be allocated to that party in parliament. It is an arbitrary threshold as that X percentage varies from country to country.

FPTP is no more messy than PR. In many ways, FPTP is less messy than PR precisely because it is the people who must self allocate among their diverse political views. There are gradations of views in the Democratic and Republican parties. There are some Libertarians in both of the dominant parties. If one day there are enough Libertarians fed up with the dominant two, the US will see a three-party Congress. Or instead of the Libertarians, maybe it will be CPUSA-Democrats-Republicans. Or it may stabilize out to CPUSA-Libertarians or Libertarians-Republicans. If there are any messiness, it is ideological and outside of government. And that is a good thing.

Well to a layman, US is nothing more than a 2 party state at the end as the system is rigged to prevent a 3rd party emergence; which is not true democracy. Neither at local or federal level this should have shown up.

 

[gambit]

Well to a layman, US is nothing more than a 2 party state at the end as the system is rigged to prevent a 3rd party emergence; which is not true democracy. Neither at local or federal level this should have shown up.

How is the system 'rigged' to prevent a 3rd party emergence? The CPUSA is a legal entity, is it not?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_the_United_States

Just because you* suck at convincing enough people to come to you, that does not mean the system is 'rigged'. It just simply mean you* suck.

* Does not mean you -- personally.

 

[Avicenna]

How is the system 'rigged' to prevent a 3rd party emergence? The CPUSA is a legal entity, is it not?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_the_United_States

Just because you* suck at convincing enough people to come to you, that does not mean the system is 'rigged'. It just simply mean you* suck.

* Does not mean you -- personally.

Of course its rigged.

Thats one thing Trump was correct about.

i.e. Sanders and the DNC.

 

[gambit]

Of course its rigged.

Thats one thing Trump was correct about.

i.e. Sanders and the DNC.

That is internal party politics. Does not mean the entire system is rigged. But then again, how do you explain the CPUSA if the system is 'rigged'?

 

[Avicenna]

That is internal party politics. Does not mean the entire system is rigged. But then again, how do you explain the CPUSA if the system is 'rigged'?

I'm not familiar with CPUSA.

So I won't comment on that.

But as an educated layman whose lived almost his entire life in the US.

I can say the public is only aware of the tip of the iceberg when its comes to the reality of things.

I don't have any direct evidence that the "system is rigged", so I cant furnish that to you here.

But its more likely than not it is.

Given the people we have in the government and the intermittent scandals that come to the public view.

Not to say the US system overall is not good.

It is of course.

But its not infallable.

And as I said before, the corruption and abuse of power etc. that we in the public see is likely just the tip of the iceberg.

And that INCLUDES the maintanance of a two party system which preserves the current power dynamics of the two party system.

You can of course feel free to disagree.

 

[gambit]

I'm not familiar with CPUSA.

So I won't comment on that.

What is there to 'comment'?

CPUSA = Communist Party of the USA.

If the CPUSA is a legal entity, that means there was nothing blocking Americans from joining it. And if the CPUSA can exist as a legal entity, that mean the system is not 'rigged'. The CPUSA have been around since 1919.

Am not asking you to comment on the CPUSA. Am expecting you explain how the system is 'rigged' if the CPUSA exists as a legal entity.

But as an educated layman whose lived almost his entire life in the US.

I can say the public is only aware of the tip of the iceberg when its comes to the reality of things.

I don't have any direct evidence that the "system is rigged", so I cant furnish that to you here.

But its more likely than not it is.

It is great that you are an educated layman, that would at least put you in the upper %50 percentile of the electorate. But if you are going to make a charge, as an educated layman, you know you cannot do it base on a 'gut feeling' and proceed to make innuendos.

Given the people we have in the government and the intermittent scandals that come to the public view.

Not to say the US system overall is not good.

It is of course.

But its not infallable.

Fine. So the system is not perfect. But imperfection does not equal to 'rigged', which implies deliberateness.

And that INCLUDES the maintanance of a two party system which preserves the current power dynamics of the two party system.

You can of course feel free to disagree.

Of course I disagree. My argument is that it is the American people who maintains the stabilized two-party status and it is the norm.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-past-the-post_voting

Duverger's law is an idea in political science which says that constituencies that use first-past-the-post methods will lead to two-party systems, given enough time.

I have said nothing out of the ordinary. If by nature and history that FPTP tends to stabilize out to two-party dominance, then how can the system be 'rigged' since FPTP predates the US? That make no sense.

 

[denel]

I'm not familiar with CPUSA.

So I won't comment on that.

But as an educated layman whose lived almost his entire life in the US.

I can say the public is only aware of the tip of the iceberg when its comes to the reality of things.

I don't have any direct evidence that the "system is rigged", so I cant furnish that to you here.

But its more likely than not it is.

Given the people we have in the government and the intermittent scandals that come to the public view.

Not to say the US system overall is not good.

It is of course.

But its not infallable.

And as I said before, the corruption and abuse of power etc. that we in the public see is likely just the tip of the iceberg.

And that INCLUDES the maintanance of a two party system which preserves the current power dynamics of the two party system.

You can of course feel free to disagree.

Correct and on point. We do not see any such dynamics at grass roots, state or federal; it ultimately has only 2 parties - if you are not with those, nothing will be done.

USA writes the textbook on advanced medical treatments. American researchers do bulk of the research.
Look at Nobel Prize for medicine lists

That is fine; we all know it is for the rich and those who can afford. The rest of the mass just rot.

 

[gambit]

We do not see any such dynamics at grass roots, state or federal;..

It is not the government's responsibility to do anything at the 'grass roots' level. In fact, there is a basic American aversion to have the government, state or federal, getting involved at that same 'grass roots' level.

The common theme I see in those who criticize American politics regarding the two-party dominance is -- intellectual laziness.

Basically, it is the belief that it is the government's responsibility to make sure information are available to me instead of the burden of education falls upon me.

 

[nahtanbob]

That is fine; we all know it is for the rich and those who can afford. The rest of the mass just rot.

The rich and who can afford is 80% of the population

 

[mike2000 is back]

BS. You're calling US govt's military indecisiveness with the Syrian war Obama selling Syria to Russia.

Agree. It was Obama’s indecisiveness that led to the current situation. Else Assad will be long gone. However, I think Obama’s reluctance to intervene was actually a good thing. It’s better to let Syria face its current turmoil and militants under Assad than if it western powers had Intervened to remove him and the country fell in turmoil and littered with militants , then it would have been easier for people to blame the West. So I don’t think Obama’s indecisiveness was a bad thing.

People on here who support Maduro do so not because they even like him, it’s more because they are against the West. If these people were living in Venezuela and going through what the people there are going through, I’m sure they wouldn’t be saying the same thing.
In short , Maduro has totally ruined the country with his failed economic policies and corruption . He is a far worse leader than Chavez . This crisis was man made. Since Venezuela should be one of the wealthiest countries on earth. They should be in an even better situation than even sanctioned isolated Iran, but look at them today. They are ranked second to last in ease of doing business only with Somalia and Eritrea are behind them for GOD’s sake.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/panamp...-190-countries-for-ease-of-doing-business/amp

Even sub Saharan african countries are far ahead of them . Just to tell you how incompetent and corrupt his regime has plunged the country into a deep tunnel. Only someone very naive will support such a failed state and regime

 

[nahtanbob]

Agree. It was Obama’s indecisiveness that led to the current situation. Else Assad will be long gone. However, I think Obama’s reluctance to intervene was actually a good thing. It’s better to let Syria face its current turmoil and militants under Assad than if it western powers had Intervened to remove him and the country fell in turmoil and littered with militants , then it would have been easier for people to blame the West. So I don’t think Obama’s indecisiveness was a bad thing.

People on here who support Maduro do so not because they even like him, it’s more because they are against the West. If these people were living in Venezuela and going through what the people there are going through, I’m sure they wouldn’t be saying the same thing.
In short , Maduro has totally ruined the country with his failed economic policies and corruption . He is a far worse leader than Chavez . This crisis was man made. Since Venezuela should be one of the wealthiest countries on earth. They should be in an even better situation than even sanctioned isolated Iran, but look at them today. They are ranked second to last in ease of doing business together with countries like Somalia , Eritrea etc for GODS sake.

what the idiots on this forum do not understand is that prosperous Venezuela is a bigger check on USA than the one today. But when has logic ever sink into people's heads ??

 

[mike2000 is back]

what the idiots on this forum do not understand is that prosperous Venezuela is a bigger check on USA than the one today. But when has logic ever sink into people's heads ??

No , as far as someone is ‘anti west’ then everything else is secondary for them . They don’t really care about the rest

 

[925boy]

what the idiots on this forum do not understand is that prosperous Venezuela is a bigger check on USA than the one today.

How? THis sounds contradictory- At this stage Venezuela cant even become "prosperous" without US support or approval so how will Venezuela then turn around and "check" the US when in the first place the US allowed them have what they have that made them bold enough to try to check the US? pls brotha

No , as far as someone is ‘anti west’ then everything else is secondary for them . They don’t really care about the rest

I am neither anti-west nor pro-Maduro. I am pro- due process and pro-fairness.

Maduro and Assad are essentially the same situation- sizeable population has turned against a strongman who ISNT pro-west. At the end of the day, if there were THAT many people against them, they should be able to remove their leader on their own. Not via western support.If you need western support to overthrow your govt how do i know what the people wanted and what the predatory western countries wanted? How can i tell the West isnt hijacking these "opposition" forces towards their interests and plans?

USA writes the textbook on advanced medical treatments. American researchers do bulk of the research.
Look at Nobel Prize for medicine lists

But US is very low in health care delivery and efficiency for advanced countries. is that a lie? i work in public health.

 

[nahtanbob]

How? THis sounds contradictory- At this stage Venezuela cant even become "prosperous" without US support or approval so how will Venezuela then turn around and "check" the US when in the first place the US allowed them have what they have that made them bold enough to try to check the US? pls brotha


I am neither anti-west nor pro-Maduro. I am pro- due process and pro-fairness.

Maduro and Assad are essentially the same situation- sizeable population has turned against a strongman who ISNT pro-west. At the end of the day, if there were THAT many people against them, they should be able to remove their leader on their own. Not via western support.If you need western support to overthrow your govt how do i know what the people wanted and what the predatory western countries wanted? How can i tell the West isnt hijacking these "opposition" forces towards their interests and plans?


But US is very low in health care delivery and efficiency for advanced countries. is that a lie? i work in public health.

It sounds contradictory. USA cannot start wars in Western Europe or Japan

A unpopular leader with support of an army can rule indefinitely over a populace. Especially if they are willing to kill their own countrymen

USA could have better results for the amount of money spent on healthcare

 

[Avicenna]

It is great that you are an educated layman, that would at least put you in the upper %50 percentile of the electorate. But if you are going to make a charge, as an educated layman, you know you cannot do it base on a 'gut feeling' and proceed to make innuendos.

Not a gut feeling or innuendo. But a statement made after years of observation and inference.

Fine. So the system is not perfect. But imperfection does not equal to 'rigged', which implies deliberateness.

Of course there is "deliberateness." Everything about those that reside in the swamp is deliberate. That includes self preservation on an individual level. And maintance of a two party system on the macro level. Of course there is a difference between legistalation and de facto circumstances. But the ends are the same.

Of course I disagree. My argument is that it is the American people who maintains the stabilized two-party status and it is the norm.

LOL. The American people are very limited in their say. They have a choice sure. But they can only choose what they are presented. As illustrated by our illustrious election of 2016.

The reality is democracy is a farce.

That being said, the alternatives are far worse.