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Bose, Not Gandhi, Ended British Rule In India: Ambedkar

I salute to all our freedom fighters. But the actual reason of India's independence was World war 2 which started in 1939 and ended in 1945. British empire fought 6 year . World war 2 broke the rib of British empire economy. They left no power and no money to rule the big colony like India for long time. So when the right time came in 1947 . They left India.
 
I did read up and that is why I repeat, Netaji was NOT the spark. If that is what you want, then the initial battle challenging the supremacy of East India Company forces in India can be called as sparks. The 1857 mutiny can be classified as the spark for real independence. Netaji was simply an ordinary politician in the grand scheme of things - the Indian independence movement. He harbored delusions of grandeur and resorted to allying with the axis powers to fight against the British forces and by extension, the Allied powers. Very poor and deplorable decisions. Even if the axis powers had won the war, Bose would have been relegated to the back ground and we would be living as secondary citizens or worse, under the Japanese!! He simply had no acumen to navigate the complex political landscape with various ideologies around.

You dont need to lecture me about 1857, I brought it up ad pointed out how in the West, the British consider that to be the greatest threat to their control at that time. We can play games with the words, but East India company and the British Raj were bascially the same thing. They were looting us dry for the interest of the British. You can twist it anyway you like. COme to WW2, Netaji was a spark for those who had been on the receiving end of the British violence. The ones who weren't happy with the non violence BS. The ones who wanted the British to feel what they felt when they lost loved ones to their violence and injustice.

Oh I see Netaji harbored delusions of grandeur, then wtf were Nehru and Gandhi thinking of when they marched along? You ally with whoever is going to help your objectives, good or bad. This was the greatest opportunity to apply pressure to the British. By doing so, the British were more amenable than ever before.


Bose was capable ot uniting ppl of different religions. Just listen to INA vets you clueless f-k. Reading your BS, it proves India has to develop a better educational system.
Its funny how you have not questioned anything about Nehru and his family dynasty and how they manipulated our history. Its almost as if they co signed what their foreign masters wanted them to do. Sorry buddy, its time for India to take control of its legacy and history. Its time to re write the mistakes of the past, good or bad. Its the only way to move forward. It will allows us to learn ....


So did many of the congress leaders who rose through the ranks. What differentiated Netaji in this role was that he addressed himself as the GoC of the youth movement and had uniforms et al for the members. This whole military/militant wannabe attitude was ridiculed by many ordinary Indians, let alone the British!


I could care very little for what the British think about us. It was a smart move to inspire our ppl. You need violence to get freedom.


RIN mutiny and trial of INA soldiers are separate events. INA trial was not palatable to the Indian leadership then because the British looked at it as treason against the crown while the Indian leadership considered the trial as excessive. Afterall INA consisted mostly of captured RIA POW soldiers.

Dude, you dont even know my political affiliations and you immediately bracket me in one!? How immature! Simply because I have a different opinion, I am to be 'condemned'? LOL.
See, I understand this want for hero worship, this romanticism with militant struggle, this craving to idolize an individual who, falsely or ignorantly, is being considered as the single most important reason for 'kicking' the British Empire out of India. Stories of an individual standing up and fighting against the might of the British Empire does indeed fire up the imaginations of an entire population. Stokes the embers of fervent nationalism. Lol, for a time I had idolized Che Guevera!! So I can sympathize with the feelings you harbor for Netaji. The truth is far from this fantasy.


No you dont understand dude. It's our history. There were many other guerillas who used violence. The story of our movement needs to be told properly not this BS driven by the Congress party which has chosen to pick points that their party look good.

You keep stating its not true? What is not true? Netaji tried a different path, which I respect. I and many others think it was more effective. Just like the 1857 mutiny. Tell us why the path of non violence never got us Independence, for the centuries prior to WW2?

Congress has deliberatedly broken our psyche. That party does not want India to be strong and nationalistic. Why not? You keep ignoring this major point, but why the fuk do we have Nehru and his family running India for decades after Independence? Time for you to wake up, the truth is far from this fantasy as you like to say.....Is this the India you wanted after Independence you imagined? We left one monarchy for another? Grow a pair....


Which Azad are you talking about? I was talking about Maulana Abul Kalam Azad, the first Education minster of independent India.


That is who I was referring to .....


As far as I remember, I have a right to express my opinion, based on various facts collected from many sources. Simply because I don't prescribe to your single track ideology of hero worshiping you resort to calling me names?
Yup. Stay classy, dimwit!



Listen your posts are not accurate. All you do is bash Netaji which is ridiculous, You are entitled to your opinions regardless of how wrong it is......Your sources and facts are crap and erroneous. Stay misinformed dumbass...

Concur.

What 'lot more' contributions do you speak of? Can you elaborate?

British were bound to leave India. It would have happened much earlier had it not been for the war in Europe. Colonialism was losing its flavor the world over, being replaced with the riches being brought about by capitalism and open markets. What was the point of investing into resources to physically hold onto colonies, when capitalism would bring in much more richer dividends ? We were already governing ourselves with provincial elections, political parties, creating our own laws etc...we had our own police forces, civic structure/bodies, court system etc.


British were bound to leave India? LMAO. The British were trying to hold onto everything if they could. Look at Hong Kong. Colonialism didn't loose it flavor until India achieved Independence. Afterwards, a new plan had to be incorporated and those who made a killing off colonialism were in the best position to reap rich rewards from capitalism.


Oh we were already governing ourselves? Then why kick out the British, if we were running the government?



Its up to us to re write our history. Look at the world, the Chinese, Europeans, etc. Why are you so adamant to give Netaji no credit when he deserves it? Nehru didn't do much and his actions/decisions as PM speak to his stupidity.


Its starting to make sense why real capable leaders who had shown ingenuity and aptitude were sidelined like Sardar Patel, Netaji, etc. If I were a foreign country giving up on a colony, I would make sure to have close relations with those who would be in power. I would make it a point that those who are in power, are incompetent so that the former colony would be dependent on us for help and favors for as long as possible.
 
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the most famous one which even today makes hair stand up with rush of adrenaline and heart feeling warm with patriotism

subhash-chandra-bose-hindi-slogans-quotes32.jpg
Translate please ?
 
INDIAN NAVY REBELS WERE INSPIRED BY NETAJI AND INA. THEY REALIZED KILLING AND HURTING THEIR OWN (INA) FOR THE BRITISH DIDN'T MAKE ANY SENSE.

INA were former soldiers in the British Indian military. Netaji influencing them, had a huge impact on thos serving the British. I agree many hero's not the way our books have shown it a sonlyu Gandhi and Nehru. Netaji's influence and impact has been neglected on purpose. Can you guess by whom?
Give the Name plz. Nehru was "The Man of Mistankes" from kasmir, to goa, from sardar to bose, from abdullah sekh to V K Krishna menon. Nehru never accept his lacunas, and always support devils who were to spoil his image.
 
So you are going to believe a person who goes chasing after conspiracy theories and ghosts but not believe actual documented history?
Netaji was a good leader in the congress party. He had differences of opinion with other leaders in the party and ended up resigning instead of playing politics, which every politician is supposed TO DO!! He goes and shakes hands with one of the vilest men in human history, resurrects the defunct Indian national army, and with the help of the imperial Japanese army, who believed in their own brand of racism and bigotry, ran amok in the east and south east Asia, slaughtering in hundreds and thousands, the 'racially inferior' people. INA was routed, lost miserably. It was disbanded, and by any accounts was a failure.
And you people still blindly worship Netaji after all this and believe he was responsible for Indian independence?
The author speaks of 'declassified documents' and 'testimonies'. I havent seen them anywhere. Neither are their sources for these documents or testimonies. So why should I believe them?
what would u had done if u were NETAJI.............?????????:rolleyes:
 
what would u had done if u were NETAJI.............?????????:rolleyes:
He would have definitely become a political stooge of the ruling British class and would have resorted to the moderate path of the 3Ps i.e. "Prayer,Petition and Protest":lol:
 
That is a Kashmiri surname! :what: But the first name is Bengali!

He is a Kashmiri, check his name on fourth in the list here: Dhar (surname) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

On topic: A ground work is being laid to show Netaji in poor light, so that if the files are declassified and it reveals something horrible was done by Nehru to remove his biggest political opponent from the equation, then it can be claimed that patriot Nehru did it to save India from evil Bose. Expecting more such articles in future also, things are about to get more ugly...
Check this: The ruckus over ‘Netaji’ is about a hero being mistreated; real historians should look elsewhere - ET Blogs
 
He is a Kashmiri, check his name on fourth in the list here: Dhar (surname) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

On topic: A ground work is being laid to show Netaji in poor light, so that if the files are declassified and it reveals something horrible was done by Nehru to remove his biggest political opponent from the equation, then it can be claimed that patriot Nehru did it to save India from evil Bose. Expecting more such articles in future also, things are about to get more ugly...
Check this: The ruckus over ‘Netaji’ is about a hero being mistreated; real historians should look elsewhere - ET Blogs


Modi is no Vajpyee by any stretch and that's the reason i still have high hopes that we can get the files declassified by sustained pressure on this government.


Btw Subramaniyam Swamy was seen talking about some Ukraine intelligence files being declassified that has got something to do with netaji's death on Twitter
 
Ideally, I would prefer Bose's face on the currencies i carry.


That's an awesome point..

He is a Kashmiri, check his name on fourth in the list here: Dhar (surname) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

On topic: A ground work is being laid to show Netaji in poor light, so that if the files are declassified and it reveals something horrible was done by Nehru to remove his biggest political opponent from the equation, then it can be claimed that patriot Nehru did it to save India from evil Bose. Expecting more such articles in future also, things are about to get more ugly...
Check this: The ruckus over ‘Netaji’ is about a hero being mistreated; real historians should look elsewhere - ET Blogs




Give this guy a prize!!! Exactly bro.....other Indians should be aware what is going on here. A lot of misinformation is being spread to divert Indians. If he was an enemy that the British wanted dead, then he is our hero. You can clearly see going back in history, Gandhi and Nehru didn't like Netaji.
 
He is a Kashmiri, check his name on fourth in the list here: Dhar (surname) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

On topic: A ground work is being laid to show Netaji in poor light, so that if the files are declassified and it reveals something horrible was done by Nehru to remove his biggest political opponent from the equation, then it can be claimed that patriot Nehru did it to save India from evil Bose. Expecting more such articles in future also, things are about to get more ugly...
Check this: The ruckus over ‘Netaji’ is about a hero being mistreated; real historians should look elsewhere - ET Blogs
Aahh, I never knew about this connection. I knew Saraswats went to the Konkan. :)

The article was the best piece of retrospective trash I have read in a long time. Such uniquely high levels point to a single fact - the author is here on this very thread. In any case, the Netaji files will have a butterfly effect and any questions on the integrity of many people and parties would be clear or stand vindicated. :) I believe that Modi will reveal it slowly and steadily. The meeting with the Bose family and the revelation was too good to be unstaged. Which is absolutely perfect for a country like ours.

Modi is no Vajpyee by any stretch and that's the reason i still have high hopes that we can get the files declassified by sustained pressure on this government.


Btw Subramaniyam Swamy was seen talking about some Ukraine intelligence files being declassified that has got something to do with netaji's death on Twitter
Any help on this matter needs to be snatched. As long as it's authentic, it's good. It will happen now. How is the Bengali press doing? :D Euphoria? :P
 
Didnt the British first establish their bases in Bengal? From the East India Company to the British crown?
Bombay/Maharashtra, Mysore etc were deemed to be very unruly for the British to establish a base, but not Bengal. Wonder why?

Bengal was the first to fall to British rule. They stayed under British rule the longest.
Punjab was the last to fall.

Keep in mind large chunks of India were ruled by Indian royals

These people conveniently forget the defeat in Battle of Plassey, the foundation stone for British rule in India. Funny, blind nationalism turns many into such ignorant fools!!

@gubbi It's difficult to decide from where to start considering the kind of half-truths, quarter-truths, and blatant lies you have posted here. But I thought it would be good to start with that little "Divide and rule" tactics you played here, just like the British, with your "Little Bong nationalism" statement.

First, Netaji didn't fight for "Bengali nationalism", he fought for YOU also, unfortunately.

Second, those 2-3 Bengalis here are not defending "Bengali nationalism", they would have been equally vocal about defending anyone who fought for our freedom and made sacrifices for our country, unfortunately Nehru is perceived to have fought more virulently for his political career than for his country.

Third, there are more people here from other states defending Netaji, in fact the writer Anuj Dhar is not a Bengali, and certainly not B. R. Ambedkar.


Now coming to Bengal's fall to British rule, which is rather a cheap attempt to malign Netaji for his Bengali origin, how do you think British occupied Bengal, or India subsequently? Was it something like the old ways of Genghis Khan or the Mughals coming with big army and conquering kingdoms?

British came as traders and set up bases in Bengal (Bengal was one of the richest back then) with the permission of the Nawab of Bengal Siraj-Ud-Daulah, later they started having differences with the Nawab and they started conspiring with Nawab's general Mir Jafar and his associates to remove the 23 years old Nawab from power, for Mir Jafar it was a golden opportunity to sit on the throne. So as per the plan Mir Jafar betrayed his Nawab and Siraj-Ud-Daulah was defeated by treachery. Then Mir Jafar became the Nawab, not any British, after him Mir Qasim became the Nawab. British didn't really occupied anything officially, but they got all the deals they wanted, since they were the ones pulling the strings.

For the general people of Bengal in those days, nation states and nationalism were unknown to them, those things didn't exist, and they were mostly indifferent or ignorant to the political turmoil within the palaces of the Nawab, a change of Nawab through treachery, killings, etc. were not something extraordinary in those days, they had no reason to care too much about it. The nationalist feelings came much later, it started to grow from 1880-1890 onwards.

And it was like that in all other kingdoms and zamindaris of India, everywhere British kept the kings as puppets to control the people and did back channel agreements with their puppets, that's why India had 600+ kingdoms to unite after independence, an uphill task that Patel did brilliantly, even after being deprived of his much deserved Prime Minister post of democratic India in the most "Undemocratic" manner. India got occupied by the British without understanding initially that they are getting occupied, the whole process was slow and took more than 50 years to complete. It's only in hindsight we recognize the Battle of Plassey as the beginning of occupation of India by British forces.

Just a curious food for thought, may be 200 years down the line we will be fighting another war of freedom against economic colonization after realizing that our governments are just puppets of the corporates, and corporates decide the actual policies and planning, even do the regime changes to suit their purpose. And maybe in hindsight we will identify the year of 1991 as the year of the beginning of "Economic colonization" of India. Though today I am fully supporting the "Economic liberalization" of India.

Yeah,it's true that we Bengalis actually sided with the Brits in order to depose the Islamic Nawabs from the throne because of their blatant religious bigotry towards the Hindu Bengali populace and this was the major reason why the Brits won the battle of Plassey with such ease.Bengalis were at first quite happy with the East India company rule but then we slowly realized that the Brits were no different from those Islamic Nawabs in exploiting us and hence we picked up arms against the British Empire and waged a relentless guerilla campaign against them.Bengal was the epicenter of armed movement in the first half of the 20th century.We killed hundreds of high ranking british officials and literally made their lives a living hell.We terrorised them so much that they were finally compelled to move the capital of British India to Delhi.But the Bengali freedom fighters still didn't leave them in peace.Our brave revolutionaries followed them and threw a bomb at Lord Hardinge I during the Delhi durbar possession in which he was seriously injured.Heck,our revolutionaries even attacked the heart of British administration in Bengal(The Writer's Building) and killed several high ranking british Police officials.Millions of young,educated Bengali youths made the supreme sacrifice in order to free our Motherland from the yoke of slavery!!

First part of your post may not be entirely true, ordinary Bengalis didn't want Mir Jafar as their ruler, but they were barely involved in the Nawabi politics. We still label anyone doing any act of treachery or back-stabbing as "Mir Jafar"!

History books deals with each fragment of events in such details that the whole picture goes missing. Check the museum of the Victoria Memorial, on its wall the entire history of British Raj is nicely presented by breaking it year on year and highlighting the major events in brief, with pictures, quotes, etc. If you go through it from the beginning, you won't feel like we are getting occupied in the initial years, by the time British started taking administrative control of entire India, they were deeply entrenched everywhere. It was a clever step by step process, in the initial years even British didn't know that eventually they will take control of the entire country, it happened as they keep on growing like a damn pimple like thing grows into cancer.
 
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but East India company and the British Raj were bascially the same thing. They were looting us dry for the interest of the British.

East India Company and British Raj are two different things. But you re right, in that they exploited India for their own needs.
Netaji was a spark for those who had been on the receiving end of the British violence. The ones who weren't happy with the non violence BS.

He was not exactly a spark. There were many others who indulged in armed rebellion.
Oh I see Netaji harbored delusions of grandeur, then wtf were Nehru and Gandhi thinking of when they marched along? You ally with whoever is going to help your objectives, good or bad. This was the greatest opportunity to apply pressure to the British.
The British were already under lot of pressure with the protests by the Congress leadership and the IML. Netaji's little INA stunt was simply a sidenote.
Bose was capable ot uniting ppl of different religions. Just listen to INA vets you clueless f-k.

So were others, and on a much larger scale than what Netaji achieved. As for using choice words, listen kiddo. Hume bhi maa-bhen ki gaaliyan aati hein. I too can call into question you immediate parentage, let alone your ancestry. So lets refrain from such and stick to gentlemanly discussion.
Its funny how you have not questioned anything about Nehru and his family dynasty and how they manipulated our history.

I question Nehru and Gandhi in the same breath as I question your interpretation of Netaji's contributions. Hell, Kashmir and division of India are solely their blunders and for their own political motives. But that is not the topic under discussion here. Your claims that Netaji was the most important person responsible for kicking the British out, is wrong. And that is what I am trying to say here.
You need violence to get freedom.
Yeah? So how did that work our for the Chechens, the Tamil Elam, the two most formidable violent movements! How about the Kashmiris, The Nagas, the Assamese, the ETA in Spain, the IRA in British Ireland, the Palestinians, etc?
Violence doesnt pay.
The story of our movement needs to be told properly not this BS driven by the Congress party which has chosen to pick points that their party look good.

I do agree. But the entire story should be told as it is, not embellishing little parts entirely out of context.
Tell us why the path of non violence never got us Independence, for the centuries prior to WW2?

FYI, most of all previous attempts to drive out the British were violent. Did they work? And what centuries? British ruled parts of India for all of 150 years. The non-violent movements started in the last 20-30 years.
Congress has deliberatedly broken our psyche.

You dont like the Congress. Neither do I. But that doesnt negate the contributions that their leaders made during the freedom struggle. Patel and Azad were from the congress, werent they? PVNR, one of the best PM India ever had was from the congress, no?
Listen your posts are not accurate. All you do is bash Netaji which is ridiculous,

Given the context, my posts are correct. I am not bashing Netaji, I am poking holes into the OP's version of aggrandizing of Netaji's contributions. Do you comprehend that?
British were bound to leave India? LMAO. The British were trying to hold onto everything if they could. Look at Hong Kong.

British left China and FYI, they negotiated a 99 year lease for the HK land. China agreed. HK was peacefully handed over in 1997, if you recollect.
So yeah, maintaining India as a colony was not feasible to the British and they were bound to leave. One of the causes was the demand for representation in the UK parliament for Indians, since Indians out numbered the British citizens and wanted a say in the affairs of the state.
Oh we were already governing ourselves? Then why kick out the British, if we were running the government?

Check out the laws passed by UK govt and establishment of Indian parliamentary system over the years. If you read that, you would know.
Its starting to make sense why real capable leaders who had shown ingenuity and aptitude were sidelined like Sardar Patel, Netaji, etc.
Patel was made the Home Minister...the most important post in India after the PM's post. How was he sidelined? Did he march the Police force into Hyderabad? Did the British stop him?

Listen dude, I understand this nationalist ferver. But that doesnt mean we should blindly be patriotic. Indian freedom movement was a very huge event, a process which took place over a period of decades. Many important personalities contributed in their own ways at particular times for this to succeed. Keep that in mind. Dont lost sight of the big picture by concentrating on smaller things and ignoring others.

@gubbi It's difficult to decide from where to start considering the kind of half-truths, quarter-truths, and blatant lies you have posted here. But I thought it would be good to start with that little "Divide and rule" tactics you played here, just like the British, with your "Little Bong nationalism" statement.
What blatant lies or half truths have I peddled? Taking things out of context and saying that they rea the most important event which influenced India's independence is like saying one single mutation causes all the cancers in humans. Totally wrong.
And what divide and rule? I was pointing the pride in regional nationalism that certain members display, by emphasizing importance of people from their regions over others. Its out there, every Indian does it. I just pointed it out.
And given the topic under discussion, I repeat my point that Netaji was not solely responsible for kicking the British out. It was long drawn out process, with contributions of many over the period, all of which are equally important. Dont take things out of context.
 
I did read up and that is why I repeat, Netaji was NOT the spark. If that is what you want, then the initial battle challenging the supremacy of East India Company forces in India can be called as sparks. The 1857 mutiny can be classified as the spark for real independence. Netaji was simply an ordinary politician in the grand scheme of things - the Indian independence movement. He harbored delusions of grandeur and resorted to allying with the axis powers to fight against the British forces and by extension, the Allied powers. Very poor and deplorable decisions. Even if the axis powers had won the war, Bose would have been relegated to the back ground and we would be living as secondary citizens or worse, under the Japanese!! He simply had no acumen to navigate the complex political landscape with various ideologies around.

So did many of the congress leaders who rose through the ranks. What differentiated Netaji in this role was that he addressed himself as the GoC of the youth movement and had uniforms et al for the members. This whole military/militant wannabe attitude was ridiculed by many ordinary Indians, let alone the British!

RIN mutiny and trial of INA soldiers are separate events. INA trial was not palatable to the Indian leadership then because the British looked at it as treason against the crown while the Indian leadership considered the trial as excessive. Afterall INA consisted mostly of captured RIA POW soldiers.

Dude, you dont even know my political affiliations and you immediately bracket me in one!? How immature! Simply because I have a different opinion, I am to be 'condemned'? LOL.
See, I understand this want for hero worship, this romanticism with militant struggle, this craving to idolize an individual who, falsely or ignorantly, is being considered as the single most important reason for 'kicking' the British Empire out of India. Stories of an individual standing up and fighting against the might of the British Empire does indeed fire up the imaginations of an entire population. Stokes the embers of fervent nationalism. Lol, for a time I had idolized Che Guevera!! So I can sympathize with the feelings you harbor for Netaji. The truth is far from this fantasy.

Which Azad are you talking about? I was talking about Maulana Abul Kalam Azad, the first Education minster of independent India.

As far as I remember, I have a right to express my opinion, based on various facts collected from many sources. Simply because I don't prescribe to your single track ideology of hero worshiping you resort to calling me names?
Yup. Stay classy, dimwit!


Concur.

What 'lot more' contributions do you speak of? Can you elaborate?

British were bound to leave India. It would have happened much earlier had it not been for the war in Europe. Colonialism was losing its flavor the world over, being replaced with the riches being brought about by capitalism and open markets. What was the point of investing into resources to physically hold onto colonies, when capitalism would bring in much more richer dividends ? We were already governing ourselves with provincial elections, political parties, creating our own laws etc...we had our own police forces, civic structure/bodies, court system etc.



How come dude, you can be seen active only on this topic, defending gandhis ?

Genuine question.
 
How come dude, you can be seen active only on this topic, defending gandhis ?

Genuine question.
Definitely not defending the Nehrus nor Gandhis, but I tend to stick to one topic at a time and discuss/debate it through to gain as much insight into the topic as possible.
 

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