Boeing to unveil stealthier F/A-18 aircraft

[dbc]

Brazil officially looking for 24 carrier fighters for 2013. The SH can't be used from their carrier, the Gripen will not be ready in that time, now guess which fighter is left in the race?

More BS from you the French Carrier Foch was sold to Brazil, Rafale M which is 610 Kg heavier both Rafale M and F/A-18 are limited to light combat loads when operating from A-12 São Paulo Brazil's only aircraft carrier.

Rafale M: Single-seat carrierborne fighter; navalisation weight penalty, 610 kg (1,345 lb); take-off weight from existing French carrier Foch limited to 16,500 kg (36,376 lb); has 80 per cent structural and equipment commonality with Rafale C, 95 per cent systems commonality. Navy's financial share of French programme cut in 1991 from 25 to 20 per cent.

France: Rafale fighter

Rafale's production is on life support now, quit dreaming about production beyond 2020. Boeing's 2009 revenue was 66 Billion dollars, combined 2009 revenue of F/A-18 E/F partners like Raytheon, BAE and GE is close to 200 Billion dollars - do you really think Dassault with '09 revenue of just over 1 Billion Euro can afford to sustain Rafale?

Rafale is too expensive even for France, Rafale pilots get to fly this white elephant for just 180 hours a year the bare minimum required by NATO. F-15 pilots average 270 hours a year, Hornet pilots average well over 300 hours.

Brigadier General Dominique de Longvilliers - "in terms of logistics, we have made an annual contract and our pilots are flying about 180h per year."

Brigadier General Dominique De Longvilliers | Poder Aéreo - Informação e Discussão sobre Aviação Militar e Civil

 

[sancho]

More BS from you the French Carrier Foch was sold to Brazil, Rafale M which is 610 Kg heavier both Rafale M and F/A-18 are limited to light combat loads when operating from A-12 São Paulo Brazil's only aircraft carrier.

As usual, you have no idea about the real matter and are only speculating:

Brazilian Navy and FAB gave me access to the document submitted to Defence Minister and which contains the explanatory memorandum which will be submitted to President Lula.

The signature of the commanders of the two forces certifies that they are original. Some points:

1. From the Sao Paulo, the Rafale can operate with only 40% of its capacity [payload], which could be minimized with a refueling after takeoff;
2. The F/A-18E/F Super Hornet is unable to operate our aircraft carrier. Its dry weight is beyond the capacity of the wiring, Its length is greater than that of elevators and catapults would not be able to launch it;
3. Even the Gripen navy, which exists only in theory, can only function with a capacity of 80%.

The document prepared by the Navy contains verbatim the explanatory memorandum and indicates that the 3 would operate smoothly with the future aircraft carrier class of 50000 tons to be operated by the Navy. This material, prepared by COPAC and reviewed by the High Command of Aeronautics has been valided.

And latest news:

It's the same financial architecture applied in the selection of new fighters from multiple jobs of Aeronautics, the F-X2. In neither case is there the immediate disbursement forecast. Minister Jobim contends that the statement of the airplane winner will be announced until July by President Dilma. In 2013 the Navy will purchase 24 units of the same aircraft, but in version shipped to equip a new aircraft carrier of 60,000 tons it plans to incorporate between 2027 and 2031

Which means now we are talking about a minimum of 60 Rafales for Brazil + another 60 for UAE, with the only issue left is the sale of Mirage 2000-9, where again Brazil would be a logical choice. So, I don't see the French getting too worried about orders these days.

 

[dbc]

As usual, you have no idea about the real matter and are only speculating:

I don't have time to indulge your fantasies, Brazil cannot afford the Rafale and the UAE are too smart to go for an underpowered aircraft with a weak radar. Here is what a Typhoon pilot said about the Rafale after flying it...

while another (who had actually flown Rafale) explained that “the Rafale is underpowered by comparison with Typhoon, and needs reheat where we would use dry. We can get through the Mach and supercruise in dry power at typical operating altitudes, and you simply can’t do that in Rafale.”

Combat Aircraft Magazine | Special Online Reports

Your lame rebuttal below was posted on a online forum by a forum member and isn't a reliable source.

Brazilian Navy and FAB gave me access to the document submitted to Defence Minister and which contains the explanatory memorandum which will be submitted to President Lula.

The signature of the commanders of the two forces certifies that they are original. Some points:

1. From the Sao Paulo, the Rafale can operate with only 40% of its capacity [payload], which could be minimized with a refueling after takeoff;
2. The F/A-18E/F Super Hornet is unable to operate our aircraft carrier. Its dry weight is beyond the capacity of the wiring, Its length is greater than that of elevators and catapults would not be able to launch it;
3. Even the Gripen navy, which exists only in theory, can only function with a capacity of 80%.

The document prepared by the Navy contains verbatim the explanatory memorandum and indicates that the 3 would operate smoothly with the future aircraft carrier class of 50000 tons to be operated by the Navy. This material, prepared by COPAC and reviewed by the High Command of Aeronautics has been valided.

Even if it was, your source claims the 24 aircrafts are intended for Brazil's new aircraft carrier that can operate all three - you pretty much debunked your own claim.

"The SH can't be used from their carrier, the Gripen will not be ready in that time, now guess which fighter is left in the race? "

You shot yourself in the foot and proved yourself an unworthy adversary and unsuitable for future discourse. Please do act upon my advise and finish elementary school.

GOODBYE & GOOD LUCK!

 

[sancho]

Even if it was, your source claims the 24 aircrafts are intended for Brazil's new aircraft carrier that can operate all three

Again girl, read slowly then you might understand it! Both sources (the earlier from a well known Brazilian journalist who even works for the gov, which is why he get access to such infos and the latter with official confirmation of the defence minister) says these navy fighters will be used on the future carrier as well, but that is planned only around 2027! In the meantime they will be operated on the Sao Paulo carrier, from 2013 onwards and again, Sea Gripen not available, F18SH not useful, which leaves them only with one choice.

I don't have time to indulge your fantasies, Brazil cannot afford the Rafale and the UAE are too smart to go for an underpowered aircraft with a weak radar. Here is what a Typhoon pilot said about the Rafale after flying it...

Let me sum it up, when I asked you for a coment on the fact that the USN don't fund these upgrades for the F18SH (like you often claimed, but failed to provide a proof) you didn't answerd and distracted instead with Rafale orders.
When I replyed and showed you that the chances for exports are even quiet good now, you distracted with F15 flight hours.
And now when I showed you what the real reasons are (not just your speculation again) why the SH can't be used, you distract with EF.

Hilarious how you run and hide, just not talk about the F18SH!

 

[localoca]

seems like the Super Hornet can truly capable of becoming as stealthy as a 5th gen fighter, at least from the rear end that is..that is something I cant say for the rafale

check this pic of a navalized Raptor, the SuperHornet needs only the stealthy nozzles to be as stealthy as the navalized Raptor, because it has stealthy rear end already...

 

[logic]

Indian in my humble opinion India should get the TYPHOON or F-15.

This way in long run they will end up with high end mix of NATO and Russia combined thats quiet an accomplishment.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

 

[dbc]

Again girl, read slowly then you might understand it! Both sources (the earlier from a well known Brazilian journalist who even works for the gov, which is why he get access to such infos and the latter with official confirmation of the defence minister) says these navy fighters will be used on the future carrier as well, but that is planned only around 2027! In the meantime they will be operated on the Sao Paulo carrier, from 2013 onwards and again, Sea Gripen not available, F18SH not useful, which leaves them only with one choice.
Hilarious how you run and hide, just not talk about the F18SH!

Who is running? Show us a reliable source for your claim and not some online forum, from a poster claiming to be a journalist working for the Brazilian government - people make all sorts of claims online, your source is unreliable. Do you have a reliable source for your claim that the F/A-18 can't be operated from the decks of the A-12 San Paolo? Show me a reliable source for you claim that the USN will not fund F/A-18 E/F upgrades, when historic facts point to continued investment in the F/A-18 E/F.

Show us a source for your claim that the USN intends to use F/A-18 E/F as tankers. As for future growth and funding here is what Boeing said

The F/A-18 Super Hornet offers India the most advanced see-all, do-all combat fighter in production today, capable of defending the nation from the Himalaya to the Indian Ocean with unmatched lethality, pilot safety and the promise of 30+ years of US Navy-funded upgrades.Continuous new technology insertion (US Navy-supported) "

http://gfilesindia.com/magazine-pdf-2008/3-March-2008.pdf
page 20

PROMISE of 30+ years of US Navy funded upgrades is what's on the table.

Please do provide a reliable source for your claims until then I'm not waisting my time with the deluded and academically challenged.

 

[Kinetic]

http://i052.radikal.ru/1101/e4/6879902b7cbb.jpg

If Boeing offers same for the MRCA than only we should go for SH otherwise EFT is the best of the best.

 

[sancho]

seems like the Super Hornet can truly capable of becoming as stealthy as a 5th gen fighter, at least from the rear end that is..that is something I cant say for the rafale

check this pic of a navalized Raptor, the SuperHornet needs only the stealthy nozzles to be as stealthy as the navalized Raptor, because it has stealthy rear end already...

The Raptor, no matter which version is a real stealth fighter, because it has stealth design and carries no external loads. This F18SH version has nothing of it, the only difference in terms of RCS is, that it carries some weapons in the weapon pod, which is an external load and not attached to the fuselage. No doubt that it has a lower RCS, but comes not close to a real stealth fighter!

Who is running? Show us a reliable source

I am not the one who fails and fails to prove my points and is speculating and distracting only. I already showed sources, one even stated by the Boeing vice president of the F18 program itself, that clearly says, that the USN has a seperate upgrade path not linked with the grothmap for international customes! When he is not reliable to you, who else?
The USN will upgrade their fighters for sure, but not these upgrades and that is the matter here, so distracting again with such a silly trick, is even cheap for your standards.

As I said, he is a well known journalist in Brazil and he was even the first that stated, that the F18SH was one of the fighters that had to be modified in the Leh trials and had thrust issues, which later was reported by Times of India too.

 

[IND151]

brand new stealthier f 18 hornet

 

[IND151]

Indian in my humble opinion India should get the TYPHOON or F-15.

This way in long run they will end up with high end mix of NATO and Russia combined thats quiet an accomplishment.

typhoon is well concerned option but why we will go for f 15.......? f 15 is heavy class fighter and MMRCA is meant to select medium class fighter. we have already ordered newer version of SU 30 MKI.

 

[GORKHALI]

brand new stealthier f 18 hornet

thats not F/A 18 but F 15 .....

 

[dbc]

The Raptor, no matter which version is a real stealth fighter, because it has stealth design and carries no external loads. This F18SH version has nothing of it, the only difference in terms of RCS is, that it carries some weapons in the weapon pod, which is an external load and not attached to the fuselage. No doubt that it has a lower RCS, but comes not close to a real stealth fighter!




I am not the one who fails and fails to prove my points and is speculating and distracting only. I already showed sources, one even stated by the Boeing vice president of the F18 program itself, that clearly says, that the USN has a seperate upgrade path not linked with the grothmap for international customes! When he is not reliable to you, who else?
The USN will upgrade their fighters for sure, but not these upgrades and that is the matter here, so by distracting again with such a silly trick, is even cheap for your standards.

As I said, he is a well known journalist in Brazil and he was even the first that stated, that the F18SH was one of the fighters that had to be modified in the Leh trials and had thrust issues, which later was reported by Times of India too.

Don't have time for your rants, a source for all your claims please including your allegation that the Super Hornet failed at Leh.

 

[angeldemon_007]

Yeah buddy, the first pic is not of f18, its f15.
I heard Boeing is in jV with some Brazil company to develop uav. Damn, Brazilian know how to negotiate. Our policymakers are idiot.
We are in a very good situation, we have delayed our decision which could be beneficial for us also as we could negotiate more.
Good thing is we have kept all the cards to ourselves that means we can bluff.
If we give this deal to US, we should ask for predators as we don't need F35, we should ask for something else in return of giving them this deal. We could also ask Arrow 3.

If we go for typhoon we could ask for Talarion uav of eads. This is the best option for us. We could also ask designs for britains new AC for our future AC.

If given to Rafale, we could ask for participation in Neuron or ask for some new DCNS design like Swordfish or baracudda.

I hope our policy makers are not busy in filling their pockets. MOD should understand how big is this deal and how much we can gain from this.