Boeing Delivers Indian Air Force 3rd C-17 Globemaster III

[peaceful]

we built our own.

when we two nations go to the next war, I guess your close friends in the US will work around the clock to deliver more to you guys.

China's first heavy transporter Y-20 takes off - People's Daily Online

india is loser every single sector of the competition.

 

[Star Wars]

Ruskies...learn from the Americans and Deliver on time

 

[third eye]

we built our own.

when we two nations go to the next war, I guess your close friends in the US will work around the clock to deliver more to you guys.

China's first heavy transporter Y-20 takes off - People's Daily Online

india is loser every single sector of the competition.

Ok..

Next..

 

[peaceful]

Ruskies...learn from the Americans and Deliver on time

that is the problem you need to overcome - why you guys can't just build you own?

IQ is still waiting to be improved?
or maybe the national power grid is still off?

or your engineers are busy raping young girls?

one day loser, always loser.

Ok..

Next..

next? by what?

you guys should spent the next 5 years to fix your LCA so it can be enlisted when we enlist our J-20 and J-31.

 

[Dillinger]

definitely man.....this is unbelievable

glad we are away fro il-76



No,,,,that should stay indigenous

And here is some thought
We are gonna go into a jv with russia on mta
why not base our larger awacs on that platform??

anyone??

The MTA will not be suitable for AEW&C operations given that its a medium range transport which are as such ill suited for the task. The generic trend is to either opt for narrow body smaller platforms for cheaper variants or opt for much larger wide body variants (usually derivates of civilian airliners) for the top end requirements. The reason being simply that wide body airliners are largely proven platforms, can carry a significant amount of weight, have a significant amount of endurance and a ready built supply chain for spares/logistics and maintenance. On the other hand IF one must opt for a larger military transport as an AEW&C platform then it is prudent to ensure that above capabilities are showcased by said platform and that it has been in operation for some time and furthermore that the OEM can successfully adapt said aircraft to preserve flight quality while carrying the required AEW equipment.

The MTA at the moment is not even in testing, to develop an AEW variant could well span into a decade long period. Ergo given that this would prolong our AWACS project it is more prudent to opt for tried, proven and existent large AEW compatible platforms.

 

[sardar1987]

The MTA will not be suitable for AEW&C operations given that its a medium range transport which are as such ill suited for the task. The generic trend is to either opt for narrow body smaller platforms for cheaper variants or opt for much larger wide body variants (usually derivates of civilian airliners) for the top end requirements. The reason being simply that wide body airliners are largely proven platforms, can carry a significant amount of weight, have a significant amount of endurance and a ready built supply chain for spares/logistics and maintenance. On the other hand IF one must opt for a larger military transport as an AEW&C platform then it is prudent to ensure that above capabilities are showcased by said platform and that it has been in operation for some time and furthermore that the OEM can successfully adapt said aircraft to preserve flight quality while carrying the required AEW equipment.

The MTA at the moment is not even in testing, to develop an AEW variant could well span into a decade long period. Ergo given that this would prolong our AWACS project it is more prudent to opt for tried, proven and existent large AEW compatible platforms.

Ok then can't we have jv with russia on newer variant of IL-76..............at least we will get some experience and its better than complete off shelf buy.....yes i do understand that radars will be provided by drdo itself

 

[senkakudefender]

Ok then can't we have jv with russia on newer variant of IL-76..............at least we will get some experience and its better than complete off shelf buy.....yes i do understand that radars will be provided by drdo itself

No, you saw INS Sindhurakshak similar incident happened with Delta IV class submarine in 2012

We can make bloody AWACS, MBTs, 3rd gen IR fire and forget anti tank missiles, SU 30MKIs frm scratch, 140KM MRBLS, 8000km ICBM, Stealth destroyers of 8000 tons with AESA radar and 130mm gun, why can't we make a transport plane on our own?

that is the problem you need to overcome - why you guys can't just build you own?

IQ is still waiting to be improved?
or maybe the national power grid is still off?

or your engineers are busy raping young girls?

one day loser, always loser.



next? by what?

you guys should spent the next 5 years to fix your LCA so it can be enlisted when we enlist our J-20 and J-31.

J 31 , the same project the company only flogs like a duck, underpowered engines, rip off (done badly) of F35 airframe, no AESA yet and J20 with AL 31F underpowered engines, by all means carry on.

FGFA will be ready to lay a wreath at the graves of your pilots.

 

[Dillinger]

Ok then can't we have jv with russia on newer variant of IL-76..............at least we will get some experience and its better than complete off shelf buy.....yes i do understand that radars will be provided by drdo itself

IL-76 has really caused problems for the IAF with regard to maintenance, or so we hear. Now I'll agree with you that an indigenous platform would be a far better option but let us be content with the fact that CABS actually built an indigenous S-band AESA which will shortly be operational and is producing capable T/R modules for other bands. Indigenous platforms predicate a high bypass engine and the ability to first produce wide body civilian airlines/transports.

At the moment CABS has shown excellent momentum with the project, I was specially happy to hear it from the horse's mouth itself that the IP/IR for said sensor suite is completely owned by CABS- the near ultimate proof that it is a real indigenous development (albeit Cassidian shall aid in the system integration process as a consultant so as to cut the time required for the same). Let us not spoil this momentum by saddling their project with more demands. Trust me, being able to design and fabricate your own AEW&C sensors (primary radar specifically) is a true feat.

 

[sardar1987]

No, you saw INS Sindhurakshak similar incident happened with Delta IV class submarine in 2012

We can make bloody AWACS, MBTs, 3rd gen IR fire and forget anti tank missiles, SU 30MKIs frm scratch, 140KM MRBLS, 8000km ICBM, Stealth destroyers of 8000 tons with AESA radar and 130mm gun, why can't we make a transport plane on our own?



J 31 , the same project the company only flogs like a duck, underpowered engines, rip off (done badly) of F35 airframe, no AESA yet and J20 with AL 31F underpowered engines, by all means carry on.

FGFA will be ready to lay a wreath at the graves of your pilots.

Dude we actually make none of the things u pointed above
Most of the stuff is imported and assembled here

IL-76 has really caused problems for the IAF with regard to maintenance, or so we hear. Now I'll agree with you that an indigenous platform would be a far better option but let us be content with the fact that CABS actually built an indigenous S-band AESA which will shortly be operational and is producing capable T/R modules for other bands. Indigenous platforms predicate a high bypass engine and the ability to first produce wide body civilian airlines/transports.

At the moment CABS has shown excellent momentum with the project, I was specially happy to see hear it from the horse's mouth itself that the IP/IR for said sensor suite is completely owned by CABS- the near ultimate proof that it is a real indigenous development (albeit Cassidian shall aid in the system integration process as a consultant so as to cut the time required for the same). Let us not spoil this momentum by saddling their project with more demands. Trust me, being able to design and fabricate your own AEW&C sensors (primary radar specifically) is a true feat.

Funding must be atleast 5-10 percent of total defence budget but our is like 2.5 % or so.
Regarding russian old stuff u are right but we must take this as an opportunity and invest in their companies like

1)zhuk radars
2)niip corporation

it will come handy in future

 

[Dillinger]

Dude we actually make none of the things u pointed above
Most of the stuff is imported and assembled here




Funding must be atleast 5-10 percent of total defence budget but our is like 2.5 % or so.
Regarding russian old stuff u are right but we must take this as an opportunity and invest in their companies like

1)zhuk radars
2)niip corporation

it will come handy in future

Yaara, our own ability to fabricate T/R modules is perched on a threshold so Zhuk or NIIP is really not going to be much of a game-changer- given some time this is one field we shall be able to progress in although the domestic electronics manufacturing ecosystem needs to be vastly improved otherwise we'll have to build said eco-systems from scratch for specific projects like we had to in the case of our missile guidance systems. At the moment the sort of help we need and the specific field we need help in is exactly the kind of help that we will NOT get from ANYONE. The only nation which amassed significant knowledge in the said field and the only nation which is also ready to provide that know-how is Ukraine, and it has already been tapped and co-opted by someone else.

But the doom and gloom brigade tend to forget looking at the things that are coming up, to take a pragmatic view and size up the situation after educating themselves on the subject matter.

 

[sardar1987]

Yaara, our own ability to fabricate T/R modules is perched on a threshold so Zhuk or NIIP is really not going to be much of a game-changer- given some time this is one field we shall be able to progress in although the domestic electronics manufacturing ecosystem needs to be vastly improved otherwise we'll have to build said eco-systems from scratch for specific projects like we had to in the case of our missile guidance systems. At the moment the sort of help we need and the specific field we need help in is exactly the kind of help that we will NOT get from ANYONE. The only nation which amassed significant knowledge in the said field and the only nation which is also ready to provide that know-how is Ukraine, and it has already been tapped and co-opted by someone else.

But the doom and gloom brigade tend to forget looking at the things that are coming up, to take a pragmatic view and size up the situation after educating themselves on the subject matter.

Ok food for thought

1)we don't manufacture even basic computer chips to be used for advanced radars

2)all that jv with israel is imho just importing stuff,nothing else

you may ask why??here is the answer

Israel defence industry's bread and butter is radars and ew systems.They are not into engines and stuff.So why would they even teach us this thing??And by the time we make an x band GaA aesa world would have moved to GaN already.

Solution------it may sound desperate,but start reverse engineering at least the bars pesa,,,don't make full copies but atleast use that as a basis for a decent fighter radar instead of using a lowly pulse doppler radar!!!
And why didn't we go for a smaller bars variant??These things require previous planning that we don't do.

Almost all the chinese fighters are gonna be fitted or are already are with indigenous pesa atleast(some say aesa) and our mig 29 has a lowly zhuk-m radar??Why not zhuk-ae??

Similarly tejas needed an aesa.........maybe selex vixen!!

What do we intend to achieve with a radar having detection of 130 kn for 5m2 target??And that too on our carriers?

This was my choice even for mig-29(if it fits)
http://selex-es.com/~/media/Files/S/Selex-Galileo/products/air/fire-control-radar/Vixen-1000E.pdf
Pls give opinion

chinese aesa/pesa

http://www.asian-defence.net/2012/01/chinese-aesa-radar-development-for-j.html

 

[Dillinger]

Ok food for thought

1)we don't manufacture even basic computer chips to be used for advanced radars

2)all that jv with israel is imho just importing stuff,nothing else

you may ask why??here is the answer

Israel defence industry's bread and butter is radars and ew systems.They are not into engines and stuff.So why would they even teach us this thing??And by the time we make an x band GaA aesa world would have moved to GaN already.

Solution------it may sound desperate,but start reverse engineering at least the bars pesa,,,don't make full copies but atleast use that as a basis for a decent fighter radar instead of using a lowly pulse doppler radar!!!
And why didn't we go for a smaller bars variant??These things require previous planning that we don't do.

Almost all the chinese fighters are gonna be fitted or are already are with indigenous pesa atleast(some say aesa) and our mig 29 has a lowly zhuk-m radar??Why not zhuk-ae??

Similarly tejas needed an aesa.........maybe selex vixen!!

What do we intend to achieve with a radar having detection of 130 kn for 5m2 target??And that too on our carriers?

This was my choice even for mig-29(if it fits)
http://selex-es.com/~/media/Files/S/Selex-Galileo/products/air/fire-control-radar/Vixen-1000E.pdf
Pls give opinion

chinese aesa/pesa

Chinese AESA Radar Development For J-10B And J-20 Fighter Jets | ASIAN DEFENCE NEWS

Exactly how does a JV with Israel fit into the scheme of things here. The JVs were predicted on the fact that a decade back we did not have the capability to fabricate many components required for radars, seekers and ECM/ESM systems. As such for the developmental and testing cycle to have been carried out within a time-frame so as to allow us to induct systems in the 2012-2020 time-period required that we enter said JVs. The AEW&C project is a different beast altogether.

Reverse engineering a PESA radar or any other radar will not provide any spectacular benefit. The required changes, managerial adaptations and strategies and R&D areas have been highlighted by professionals a long time back and further reasserted in the most recent audits of the Indian defense eco-sphere as such involving private entities and well as DPSUs. Reverse engineering and/or adapting designs are not the areas of concern. Given time I will provide you with the open source audit report and the pertinent changes required in the MOD-DPSU structure and relationship.

A little bit of patience will reap the rewards required. Hold your horses, let the tech tree be scaled. X-band gallium arsenide modules have already been fabricated and provided for by relevant DRDO labs, back-end systems, software components and cooling remain unaccounted for. COTS components like chips and processors are not restricted products as far as we are concerned and it is commercially as well as technologically viable to procure them from third-parties just as many American and European firms continue to do.

Ad hoc measures are not the need of the moment nor beneficial in the long term.

The MIG-29K fulfills our requirements. A cost benefit analysis is always carried out while making such decisions. You need to take into consideration that the Fulcrum shall not be operated off any of the IN's future carriers beyond the IAC-1 and as such is a part of our transitory phase into lager multi-role naval platforms. An AESA equipped naval fighter will become a requirement only once we shift to other platforms (which we will HAVE to given that IAC-2 will at the very least be a CATOBAR AC if not equipped with EMALS or similar systems) within the next decade as the bulk naval aviation platform for future carrier ops.

 

[sardar1987]

Exactly how does a JV with Israel fit into the scheme of things here. The JVs were predicted on the fact that a decade back we did not have the capability to fabricate many components required for radars, seekers and ECM/ESM systems. As such for the developmental and testing cycle to have been carried out within a time-frame so as to allow us to induct systems in the 2012-2020 time-period required that we enter said JVs. The AEW&C project is a different beast altogether.

Reverse engineering a PESA radar or any other radar will not provide any spectacular benefit. The required changes, managerial adaptations and strategies and R&D areas have been highlighted by professionals a long time back and further reasserted in the most recent audits of the Indian defense eco-sphere as such involving private entities and well as DPSUs. Reverse engineering and/or adapting designs are not the areas of concern. Given time I will provide you with the open source audit report and the pertinent changes required in the MOD-DPSU structure and relationship.

A little bit of patience will reap the rewards required. Hold your horses, let the tech tree be scaled. X-band gallium arsenide modules have already been fabricated and provided for by relevant DRDO labs, back-end systems, software components and cooling remain unaccounted for. COTS components like chips and processors are not restricted products as far as we are concerned and it is commercially as well as technologically viable to procure them from third-parties just as many American and European firms continue to do.

Ad hoc measures are not the need of the moment nor beneficial in the long term.

The MIG-29K fulfills our requirements. A cost benefit analysis is always carried out while making such decisions. You need to take into consideration that the Fulcrum shall not be operated off any of the IN's future carriers beyond the IAC-1 and as such is a part of our transitory phase into lager multi-role naval platforms. An AESA equipped naval fighter will become a requirement only once we shift to other platforms (which we will HAVE to given that IAC-2 will at the very least be a CATOBAR AC if not equipped with EMALS or similar systems) within the next decade as the bulk naval aviation platform for future carrier ops.

Pls go to the rafale section above and see for the links i posted on rbe2aa radar..........thanks
But i would still maintain that we should have gone for zhuk-ae straight ahead,instead of the low life zhuk-m

 

[Dillinger]

Pls go to the rafale section above and see for the links i posted on rbe2aa radar..........thanks
But i would still maintain that we should have gone for zhuk-ae straight ahead,instead of the low life zhuk-m

Operational requirements as charted out by the forces are not based on our wish lists. Try and appreciate the parameters that they have to take into consideration. The Zhuk system on the 29K fulfills the multi-role capability conditions, let the IN grasp the operational intricacies of larger fixed wing multi-role aircrafts first, they will progress along from there afterwards.

How is the RBE2AA system relevant here, wrt prospective GaN TRMs? As I said let the tech tree be scaled, generational leaps are built upon a solid 3-4 decades of slogging and there are no real shortcuts available for the same.

 

[sardar1987]

Operational requirements as charted out by the forces are not based on our wish lists. Try and appreciate the parameters that they have to take into consideration. The Zhuk system on the 29K fulfills the multi-role capability conditions, let the IN grasp the operational intricacies of larger fixed wing multi-role aircrafts first, they will progress along from there afterwards.

How is the RBE2AA system relevant here, wrt prospective GaN TRMs? As I said let the tech tree be scaled, generational leaps are built upon a solid 3-4 decades of slogging and there are no real shortcuts available for the same.

The point i am making is that pulse doppler radars are obsolete and pakistan's f-16 block 52 have better radar than lowly zhuk-m
so what the heel was it selected for??
For china which has only pesa radars and will be moving to aesa soon??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APG-68