BJP will make army training compulsory: VK Singh

[Span]

Yes, but it will make people at least get the basic understanding of how the armed forces work and teach them discipline. I am not saying they have to fight, rather give them basic infantry training, and put them in reserve. Since we don't need such a large standing army and since out current standing army is already the 3rd largest without a draft or mandatory army service.

Is not economically viable, is it? The costs associated with the procurement of additional weaponry, especially bullets, if the training agenda also includes combat firepower training, setting up military standard facilities in schools, instructors, etc, doesn't make much sense to me.

 

[illusion8]

Is not economically viable, is it? The costs associated with the procurement of additional weaponry, especially bullets, if the training agenda also includes combat firepower training, setting up military standard facilities in schools, instructors, etc, doesn't make much sense to me.

Think of how beneficial the training would be for Indian women to defend themselves against molestation or domestic violence.

 

[Span]

He is just proposing army training and not forced conscription - which many countries do anyways so it is not a precedent. He also has given reasons for it which I think makes sense.

many countries have compulsory conscription - no compulsory dancing and acting classes or bating classes - so your examples are off the mark.

The reason he put forth for such training is primarily the shortage of jawans' and officers' in the IA, in addition to the badly structured recruitment policies. Hence, it is vague to comprehend he's batting just for army training, and not forced conscription.

 

[he-man]

If it is optional, there is no need to propose it, because such a system already exists - the NCC. His proposal is compulsary military training, which is a horrible idea.

Yup,anything compulsory is horrible.

 

[illusion8]

The reason he put forth for such training is primarily the shortage of jawans' and officers' in the IA, in addition to the badly structured recruitment policies. Hence, it is vague to comprehend he's batting just for army training, and not forced conscription.

So its obvious that he is not proposing enforcing army service, just the training aspect - army though have the option of grooming potential superlative candidates when they find them during the course of the training

 

[janon]

He is just proposing army training and not forced conscription - which many countries do anyways so it is not a precedent. He also has given reasons for it which I think makes sense.

many countries have compulsory conscription - no compulsory dancing and acting classes or bating classes - so your examples are off the mark.

The point is that compelling people to do something is always a bad idea. BTW it is an even worse idea to spend time, money and energy into giving military training to everybody, when they are not going to become soldiers anyway - just from an economic and resource point of view. Fundamentally, it is an issue of personal choice.

The point about dancing or batting classes was an exercise in reductio ad absurdum - intended to emphasize the point that all such activities should be performed voluntarily, not be forced upon people.

Think of how beneficial the training would be for Indian women to defend themselves against molestation or domestic violence.

That requires self defence, which is very different from military training. The former is about ensuring one's personal safety, the latter is about warfighting. You get a watchman to secure your home, not a tank commander.

 

[illusion8]

The point is that compelling people to do something is always a bad idea. BTW it is an even worse idea to spend time, money and energy into giving military training to everybody, when they are not going to become soldiers anyway - just from an economic and resource point of view. Fundamentally, it is an issue of personal choice.

The point about dancing or batting classes was an exercise in reductio ad absurdum - intended to emphasize the point that all such activities should be performed voluntarily, not be forced upon people.

I would lean on the benefits such training would bring into a new generation - discipline, defense, nationalism (which we need), an available pool of future potential recruits and in the time of crisis a ready available pool of amateur soldiers - better than green horns.

That requires self defence, which is very different from military training. The former is about ensuring one's personal safety, the latter is about warfighting. You get a watchman to secure your home, not a tank commander.

Self defense and the conviction to fight back comes from training or is inbuilt - the people who lack that conviction get it through training.

Again your example is off the mark - especially when it comes to India and our policing standards.

 

[janon]

I would lean on the benefits such training would bring into a new generation - discipline, defense, nationalism (which we need), an available pool of future potential recruits and in the time of crisis a ready available pool of amateur soldiers - better than green horns.

We already have something to ensure a pool of amateur soldiers - the military reserves and the territorial army. Our military reserve forces are almost as big as our regular army.

Self defense and the conviction to fight back comes from training or is inbuilt - the people who lack that conviction get it through training.

Again your example is off the mark - especially when it comes to India and our policing standards.

The point is that self defence does not require military training, which is a completely different kettle of fish. Military training is about learning fieldcraft, learning to plan ambushes, cover and camoflague, handling explosives and communications, and a lot more skills that are simply not related to fighting off a mugger or rapist.

 

[illusion8]

We already have something to ensure a pool of amateur soldiers - the military reserves and the territorial army. Our military reserve forces are almost as big as our regular army.

We also have grave threats and severe shortage of officers at many levels and disciplines.

The point is that self defence does not require military training, which is a completely different kettle of fish. Military training is about learning fieldcraft, learning to plan ambushes, cover and camoflague, handling explosives and communications, and a lot more skills that are simply not related to fighting off a mugger or rapist.

Women don't just come up against a mugger or a solitary weak rapist, they sometimes come up against extraordinarily grave situations too.

 

[janon]

We also have grave threats and severe shortage of officers at many levels and disciplines.

And how does this proposal rectify that? As you said, this is not about conscription.

By the way, our shortage of officers is not due to lack of people being interested, but because of many other reasons:
1) Many officers retiring early to move to the private sector - which is why the shortage is mostly at the mid ranking levels.
2) Inability to train enough officers while ensuring high quality and standards.

 

[he-man]

We also have grave threats and severe shortage of officers at many levels and disciplines.



Women don't just come up against a mugger or a solitary weak rapist, they sometimes come up against extraordinarily grave situations too.

Still anything compulsory sucks plus it requires huge money

 

[janon]

Women don't just come up against a mugger or a solitary weak rapist, they sometimes come up against extraordinarily grave situations too.

Makes no difference, military training is not what will help them. Self defence is. Military training is a lot, lot more than that.

 

[illusion8]

And how does this proposal rectify that? As you said, this is not about conscription.

By the way, our shortage of officers is not due to lack of people being interested, but because of many other reasons:
1) Many officers retiring early to move to the private sector - which is why the shortage is mostly at the mid ranking levels.
2) Inability to train enough officers while ensuring high quality and standards.

As I said the army can groom potential candidates further - of course if the candidate is willing.

and, the biggest reason for non availability is the lack of candidates - not retiring, which obviously can be rectified if there is a good stream of prospects.

Makes no difference, military training is not what will help them. Self defence is. Military training is a lot, lot more than that.

And, who pays or how many can afford the self defense classes?

 

[janon]

As I said the army can groom potential candidates further - of course if the candidate is willing.

and, the biggest reason for non availability is the lack of candidates - not retiring, which obviously can be rectified if there is a good stream of prospects.

No, it is not. Go to any army recruitment drive and see if there is any shortage of candidates. See if there are any vacancies in the military institutions. The shortage occurs at the mid ranking levels. There is no shortage of young lieutenants.

And, who pays or how many can afford the self defense classes?

The nation imparting self defence classes makes a lot more sense than imparting military training, which would be several times more expensive. For a fraction of that money, you can give self defence classes.

 

[illusion8]

No, it is not. Go to any army recruitment drive and see if there is any shortage of candidates. See if there are any vacancies in the military institutions. The shortage occurs at the mid ranking levels. There is no shortage of young lieutenants.

As I said, an already groomed pool of candidates is much beter than green horns.

The nation imparting self defence classes makes a lot more sense than imparting military training, which would be several times more expensive. For a fraction of that money, you can give self defence classes.

Again, you are not making sense.

You go to school or college to educate youreself in multiple streams and then come out specializing in one, an army training will impart various discipines compared to solely learning self defense.