Bhutto, India and the 1971 Surrender in Bangladesh

[airmarshal]

Like you I am also a Muslim,but I am also an Indian and posses a progressive mindset,not a mediaval one. And this does not mean that I am unislamic or I hate Islam. Brother,I may be more of a believer than you as I have more faith than you on almighty Allah and His Religion and do not rely on states made and ran by corrupt politicians in His Name! n accordin to your "Islamic" logic by mockingly sayin "we should have remained in Africa" as our forefathers have originatd frm there,in cntxt of the Mughal rule and muslims of the Indian subcontinent,not only you are insulting Islam but also its glories and triumphs! Even hindu-brahmin kids in India know that Islam was not born in the jungles of Africa but at a much later and glorious stage of human civilisation! And if this is the example and basis or ideology on which your Pakistan runs in the modern times and was born in 1947,made by people like you,by dividing the masses by fear through rhetorics and cowardly threats,then what more remains of it! It was inevitable that the Bengalee intelligensia would realise their mistake and form an independnt Bangladesh in 1971 breakin up from you and gradually your Pakistan will move on to become a failed rogue state that it is,today!

So if a group of Muslims want to be real free - to have their own govt., own way of life and own country whats the problem with that? If you are a type of Muslim who choose and are willing to live in slavery and claim to have a liberal mindset then thats your interpretation.

Pakistan has its flaws, but its not a medieval mindset country. In some ways India is more medieval than Pakistan. It claims secular but it has its problems deeply entrenched in Hindu caste system and dont forget the way you treat your women. Rape and objectifying them is more prevalent in India than anywhere else.

For all the naysayers and those who wish Pakistan bad, you watch us guys rising soon inshallah!!!

 

[airmarshal]

You are dumb before you are a human or a Indian or a Hindu or whatever you say you are.
The problem with you "Indian Muslims" is that you as a self defense mechanism you MUST hate Pakistan. If you don't hate us then you might run foul of the Majority population of your country. So anything you people say has am much weight as your Indian Youtube comments about how India is a galactic supadupa pawa. You are the only only one bringing religion into this, I never mentioned religion, I never said or implied that Pakistan was more Islamic than Indian Muslim, because I am not an idiot and I know that there are good Muslims and bad Muslims regardless of nationality.
The rest... Honestly I am too tired to read it, but looks like it's a lot of
I don't blame you, I would probably using Indian logic if I was in your position as well.
All I can say is that I will make Duah that Allah SWA clears your mind of Indian logic and makes you come to reality.

Yes you are right Rusty! They have to make themselves acceptable to the vast majority which already looks down on them whereas we are what we are. The confidence we have is because we have a free country. I have seen this slavish and inferiority attitude in our forefathers and it was understandable. But it was same people who realized that living under slavery, with masters changing is not the way out, so they chose a separate country for us.

May Allah bless all the souls who gave their lives for our country. But we must also make an effort to take Pakistan where it deserves to be rather than object of ridicule it has become by wrong policies and priorities.

 

[InDoStAnImUsSaLmAn]

You are dumb before you are a human or a Indian or a Hindu or whatever you say you are.
The problem with you "Indian Muslims" is that you as a self defense mechanism you MUST hate Pakistan. If you don't hate us then you might run foul of the Majority population of your country. So anything you people say has am much weight as your Indian Youtube comments about how India is a galactic supadupa pawa. You are the only only one bringing religion into this, I never mentioned religion, I never said or implied that Pakistan was more Islamic than Indian Muslim, because I am not an idiot and I know that there are good Muslims and bad Muslims regardless of nationality.
The rest... Honestly I am too tired to read it, but looks like it's a lot of
I don't blame you, I would probably using Indian logic if I was in your position as well.
All I can say is that I will make Duah that Allah SWA clears your mind of Indian logic and makes you come to reality.

hahah! Well said....and thanks for the Duah! though u need not have to get an inferioty complex without any reason as I have never mentioned about the prowess of India,here
but you are wrong about the "Self Defnce" thng of "hating Pakistan". MAYBE you guys always will feel like this of us,because the moment you stop the cowardly hostilities towards India and feel proud and hold your heads high,there will be no more need of having a Pakistan anymore(solely because there was an Islamic Afgan,Mughal rule in INDIA before and there was no PAKISTAN)! Its ironic that you guys feel more insecure from Hindus,living in a neighbouring Islamic state and suffer such identity crisis due to India,like this,than we do,living as a minority with a majority of hindus around in a secular state,all the time! The more diversity there is,the richer it will be...it is the basic law of universe,ecosystem,culture everything! All it takes is a big heart and a bit of humanity to accept this fact,though!

 

[imran_ind]

No we muslims are not and never will be a separate nation,we are Indians and thats our first identity. And please don't generalise all muslims thinking that you are their sole representative,we can speak for ourselves,thank you! It is for such cowardly attitude of leaving the land where our forefathers ruled and are buried and even constructed some glories of Islamic culture like the Taj,Qutub Minar,Red Fort etc. that,we muslims of the subcontinent are now divided by nations and brothers from the other side can't even visit and see these places freely!

As salam walaikum bro - a warm welcome to you on PDF ... jai hind

 

[InDoStAnImUsSaLmAn]

bhai then stay Indian nobody is stopping you, but please don't include us & please don't whine about the partition, we made our choice & you made yours, we are not Indians we don't have & nor do we believe in Indian nationalism, we are Pakistanis & you are Indian ,both are good in their own ways, to you your country to me mine

yea,i get that it only hurts me when we fight each other! Though we seem to try and forget our commn hstry,still this very hstry is dragged as an excuse evrytime thr is a fight between our nations!

 

[genmirajborgza786]

yea,i get that it only hurts me when we fight each other! Though we seem to try and forget our commn hstry,still this very hstry is dragged as an excuse evrytime thr is a fight between our nations!

well i wont go into the religion part ,lets just say its about nationalism , Indian nationalism & Pakistani nationalism & Bangladeshi nationalism & lets keep it that way & nobody needs an excuse for it, as long as one has his/her country he/she has all the rights to love & defend its Independence & existence it applies to India,Pakistan,Bangladesh & every other country so lets respect every countries right to exist & its independence

 

[InDoStAnImUsSaLmAn]

As salam walaikum bro - a warm welcome to you on PDF ... jai hind

Waalaikum Assalam thanks bhai! Yea Jai Hind!

 

[priti]

I'm sorry, I don't understand that chicken scratch you wrote. Please write in English.

the script is still latin. maybe you dont understand the language.. fine...
but really script which you fondly call as chicken scratch is what you find on the flag of saudi arabia.

Who ran away from What?
You have been drinking the Hindu coolaid my friend.
India was not a county that Pakistan left.
India was a geographic region that was ruled by Britain and when Britain left, we said we don't want to be a minority in our own country so I decided not to joint the Indian Union.
Hindus are still butt hurt over this because they have fantasies of bringing back ancient Indian civilizations (based on Hinduism/Buddhism of course).

we are glad that we threw you guys out. ancient civiization of india still lives on in the people of india.

 

[priti]

So if a group of Muslims want to be real free - to have their own govt., own way of life and own country whats the problem with that? If you are a type of Muslim who choose and are willing to live in slavery and claim to have a liberal mindset then thats your interpretation.

Pakistan has its flaws, but its not a medieval mindset country. In some ways India is more medieval than Pakistan. It claims secular but it has its problems deeply entrenched in Hindu caste system and dont forget the way you treat your women. Rape and objectifying them is more prevalent in India than anywhere else.

For all the naysayers and those who wish Pakistan bad, you watch us guys rising soon inshallah!!!

what is freedom and what is slavery? are muslims living in a state that declares itself islamic free and muslims living in a free society which is secular slaves. I know muslims do everything in reverse .. i mean writing right to left.. but even your thinking is backward.. what you think is freedom is slavery and other way round..

 

[InDoStAnImUsSaLmAn]

Yes you are right Rusty! They have to make themselves acceptable to the vast majority which already looks down on them whereas we are what we are. The confidence we have is because we have a free country. I have seen this slavish and inferiority attitude in our forefathers and it was understandable. But it was same people who realized that living under slavery, with masters changing is not the way out, so they chose a separate country for us.

May Allah bless all the souls who gave their lives for our country. But we must also make an effort to take Pakistan where it deserves to be rather than object of ridicule it has become by wrong policies and priorities.

i totally respect your nationalism,but I think you should not disrespect the Mughal rulers,OUR forefathers as cowards because if they had been cowards Islam wouldn't have spread in the subcontinent and we including you,wouldn't have existed. And though we live as minorities we don't have to make anyone accept us here in India. Infact,its quite funny how brahmin politicians act like us,minorities, trying hard to make themselves acceptable to us,to gain our votes!

 

[asad71]

1. Jinnah has been brought into this discussion. Let me state my point on that. Jinnah was born in the Ismaili community and in youth he was a pucca saab, an Anglicized individual.When he got close to Muslim leaders and scholars, he was totally transformed. Do not forget Jinnah was highly intelligent and exceptionally perceptive. He was also rational. It did not take long for Jinnah to become a true Muslim who could only be called a Muslim without any sectarian adjective. He took up The Two Nation Theory out of conviction. The ideological Pakistan that he achieved was to be the stepping stone towards establishing a Nizam e Islam leading into Pan Islamic prolifications.

2. Re 1971, the basic fact remains that the events that unfolded were beyond the intellectual grasp of the then leaders of Pakistan. This included in particular the military junta more adept at drinking and womanizing than even strictly military matters. The complex socio-political issues facing them were quite alien to their experience or understanding. They acted in the common Sepoy's mindless manner: Maro danda to karo thanda! On the other hand, events in the then East Pakistan developed their own dynamics and went out of control of the AL leadership. They followed events as they developed and went along with popular sentiments without the foresight of what they were leading into. Both these groups ultimately unleashed forces that they could hardly control let alone channel in the directions that would find a solution.

4. Fact is, the leadership failed from both sides. Events spiraled out of control, fueled and instigated by the evil genius of power hungry Bhutto and his gang of conspirators. Destruction of the geo-political state of Pakistan was not their only achievement. They degraded / put at risk The Two Nation Theory and the march towards Pan Islamism that Jinnah had visualized. No wonder a haughty Indira Gandhi would rise on the floor of parliament on 16 Dec 1971 and boast, "Mr Speaker, today The Two Nation Theory is dead."

5. Sheikh wanted a return to The Lahore Resolution. He did not want to separate BD through violence or without an understanding with the other part. He did not set a time frame. He wished for political movement to run its own course.

 

[airmarshal]

i totally respect your nationalism,but I think you should not disrespect the Mughal rulers,OUR forefathers as cowards because if they had been cowards Islam wouldn't have spread in the subcontinent and we including you,wouldn't have existed. And though we live as minorities we don't have to make anyone accept us here in India. Infact,its quite funny how brahmin politicians act like us,minorities, trying hard to make themselves acceptable to us,to gain our votes!

I meant our forefathers one or two generations ago not Mughals.

 

[rubyjackass]

Lol you mean 1937 provincial elections ..the ones in which Indian National Congress defeated Muslim league in every province(even the one's with Muslim majority), rejected Muslims league claim of being the 'sole representative' of Indian Muslims.

Was the real reason for formation of Pakistan ...Muslim league could not stomach the rejection from Indian population(both Hindus and Muslims), had to divide the country on communal lines just so that it could come in to power??

Please do elaborate on this "Hindu upper caste's prejudice towards Muslims".

Ares bhai!! one correction or rather qualification. The bolded line should have been "especially the ones with Muslim majority".

 

[Silverblaze]

LOL!!! Yes, all problems are because of evil Punjabies

Is this a tactic to avoid facing facts? If yes, it has failed miserably.

You want to go into history, I can do that. Unfortunately, Muslim Punjabis have very rarely resisted the invaders as much as others. They have mostly sided with power. They never let go of the divide and rule policies of the British.

Treacherous bengalis was a myth propagated by the British after 1857 which is still in use. Why can't you accept that non-punjabi pakistanis think differently about Pakistan?

The day the Punjabi military and civil officers decide to dispense justice to all ethnic groups and start identifying themselves as the people of the land and not descendants of outsiders, Pakistan will become an asian tiger.

 

[Sugarcane]

Is this a tactic to avoid facing facts? If yes, it has failed miserably.

You want to go into history, I can do that. Unfortunately, Muslim Punjabis have very rarely resisted the invaders as much as others. They have mostly sided with power. They never let go of the divide and rule policies of the British.

Treacherous bengalis was a myth propagated by the British after 1857 which is still in use. Why can't you accept that non-punjabi pakistanis think differently about Pakistan?

The day the Punjabi military and civil officers decide to dispense justice to all ethnic groups and start identifying themselves as the people of the land and not descendants of outsiders, Pakistan will become an asian tiger.

For how long you will play victim card like babies? First let me know what your race has done for Pakistan than talk about Punjabies and L pay charh gaya asian tiger, when you people can't look out of your well than forget any improvement.