Ben Affleck gets worked up defending Islam on Bill Maher's show

[livingdead]

sam harris was seconding everything that maher said... that i what i could see.



that "open letter" was just the western governments trying to bring more credibility to their puppet... our "new khalifa"... mr. al-baghdadi.

isn't the arranger of this "open letter" the cia-promoted "cair" organization??



islam by itself is quite sophisticated in politics, sociology and economics... for example, the concept of divorce, pre-wedding alimony agreement, property inheritance etc... islam is early socialism... what needs to be reformed are many modern muslims who do not actually follow islam but have adopted anti-islami practices from hinduism, irani culture etc

ayaan hirsi ali is a fake... if you want real reform-making muslims... take the syrians, for example... they have been fighting a nato invasion for three years now... an invasion waged on ground by nato proxies who are fake-muslim like al-qaeda and taliban.

also, please do read below... my reply to nihonjin.



a marxist hillary clinton?? surely, that is a joke...



that is because one of the basis of islam is "no priest", hence no authority in the initial years to say this is islami or that... and that by the way also negates the present existance of mullahs... by islam, the mullah expert "agent of god"... is illegal, haraam... that makes the nation of saudia illegal, the irani ayatollah's illegal, taliban illegal, al-qaeda illegal, jemah islamiya illegal... and haraams illegal... sorry, hamas illegal...

every muslim is supposed to read the quran... the prayers and fastings are not important... else, islam would be no better than say, hinduism...

it is the practical rules for living a just life and being happy, given there, that make islam... islam.



we need look no further than muammar gaddafi, the "imaam of all muslims"... i do not believe in miracles or rebirth etc... but the hopeful "prophesy" that jesus christ ( hazrat isa ) will return, as the mahdi, the imaam mahdi... can only apply to muammar gaddafi... if jamal abdul nasser was a turning point for muslims, then muammar gaddafi went further than him... there have been few leaders in history like him.

muammar gaddafi said... "i am not sunni, i am not shia, i am just muslim"... my belief too.

and if jesus can return among muslims, that also means... every muslim is a christian and every christian is a muslim... and that is what i told the catholic lady i have been trying to woo

but we should also work towards a post-religion post-money humanity, where the governing system is socialism.



having that single drop of jewish blood does make one sympathetic to the israeli cause and its support

but having said that, i am not stuck in religion... please read my above reply to nihonjin.

no.. bil maher does not give much time to speak (to many of his guests).. you should watch other youtube videos of sam harris arguing against christian clergymen and jewish rabbi..
what do you think about punishment for apostasy under islamic law.

 

[LeveragedBuyout]

@LeveragedBuyout your view?

I have no comment about the Jew/Muslim argument, which is counter-productive.

Regarding the original video, I have to agree with @Syed.Ali.Haider in that as an outsider, it's impossible for me to be satisfied when a "moderate Muslim" claims that a jihadi isn't a "real Muslim," as it's not up to me to accept that ruling. I don't have the theological knowledge, and I don't even know enough who (the jihadi or the moderate) hews more closely to mainstream Islamic teachings. That is something that must be worked out internally in the Muslim world. To the rest of the world, it doesn't matter what a Muslim believes, it matters what a Muslim does. Again, for that reason, it's up to the Muslim world to clean up its own image by exterminating these groups that act in the name of Islam. Whether Harris is correct that it's a matter of concentric circles, or Steele is right that it's moderates vs. fundamentalists, the solution is for the Muslim world to decide.

The other problem is that there are two distinct issues driving the chaos in the Middle East. One is the religion aspect, about which I've said all I am comfortable saying. The other issue is the lack of natural nation-states formed by common language, culture, ethnicity, religion, and history. Instead, the states of the Middle East were formed by Western empires using rulers on maps. Therefore, in a certain sense, this chaos is a natural outcome of the unnatural borders that exist today in the Middle East, and might eventually lead to a more stable framework there. Remember that the Treaty of Westphalia marked the end of the Thirty Years' War (and in another sense, the Eighty Years' War). History seems to move faster in this technological and globalized era, but it will take some time for these forces to work themselves out. This is not directed specifically at the Muslim world, of course; Africa is much the same. But the principle stands.

Some months ago there was a thread speculating about the break up of the existing Middle East states into smaller, more ethnically- and religiously-defined mini-states (e.g. one for Alawites, one for Druze, one for Kurds, etc.), and I imagine that until that kind of solution is realized, the chaos will continue. For that reason as well, I believe that the major failing of Iraq was in not partitioning it when we had the chance, but all things considered, the Muslim world would have rejected that as yet another artificial designation, anyway. For now, the best that the Middle East can hope for is the Lebanon model (i.e. balance of terror).

 

[Dubious]

that "open letter" was just the western governments trying to bring more credibility to their puppet... our "new khalifa"... mr. al-baghdadi.
isn't the arranger of this "open letter" the cia-promoted "cair" organization??

nice ignornace ...Sorry I dont speak that lingo!

 

[gambit]

Whether its because of an inferiority complex, or due to history. Not everyone has the short mind span of an American. Arabs don't forget anything.

Not necessarily a good thing.

But you have to understand. There was no sectarian conflict in Iraq under Saddam. Yes he gassed the Kurds, but that was more of politics. Even in Assad's Syria before this Civil War, people lived peacefully, whether it was due to the fear of his secret police or just the lack of desire to shoot AKs at each other is to be debated.

Its the politics of the entire Middle East. The Saudis don't care about the Sunnis in Syria, just like the Qataris and Emirates don't give a shit about the Sunnis in Bahrain. Its political. The Saudis have a score to settle with the Assad Family, Qatar with Qaddafi. And Gulf Arabs as a whole don't want a "pro-Iranian" Shia led government 5 km off the shores of Eastern Saudi Arabia.

Yes, there were no contentions for leadership in the House of Iraq under Saddam Hussein. That was the point of my political analogy. In the House of Iraq under Saddam Hussein, there was a central authority figure where petitioners, domestic and foreign, could go to for guidance and instructions. We call them 'domestic' and 'foreign' affairs.

No different for the House of Islam, especially in matters of theology. But look at the House of Christianity for example. The world do not see Catholics beheading Amish, or Jehovah's Witnesses shooting it out in the streets against Mormons. And their differences in theologies and doctrines are no less severe and closely held than between Sunnis and Shias and whoever else in the House of Islam.

That was my point: That there is currently in the House of Islam competing figures for authority in terms of theology, doctrines, and even petty politics. This civil war have been low key bloody, but now it has escalated into full scale warfare that involved neighbors and neighbors of the worst kind: political entities.

Its not for me or any other Muslim to judge the sincerity of a person who claims to be a Muslim. Leave it to God.

Not according to your fellow Muslim: Mr. D. According to him, blood trumps Allah.

It is interesting that you use the word 'sincerity'. It denotes something that all of us tacitly acknowledged to be unknown, suspicious, and often must rely upon faith alone before we could act.

A convert to Islam is assumed, or taken on faith by other Muslims, that his/her conversion was 'sincere', and that he/she is to be treated as a Muslim on this life, and let Allah judge him/her for that unknown and suspicious 'sincerity' in the next life, correct ?

But if conversion is enough to warrant a change of hearts in the observers in this life that the convert is a 'new man/woman', so to speak, then it stands to reason that ignorance and non-experience are equally appropriate for the same observers to treat Maher and Harris as non-Jews. That ignorance and non-experience are from Maher and Harris because for all the public information about the men, neither of them have any significant exposure to Judaism in terms of practices of Jewish theology, rites, and daily living. Maher left Catholicism by his own will. Harris had a Quaker father and Jewish mother but neither of them exposed their son to their respective faiths. Common sense -- the instinctive kind -- tells us that Maher was a Catholic and Harris essentially a religious 'nobody'.

But according to Mr. D, presumably an educated and well traveled Muslim man from advanced first world Australia, Maher and Harris are first and foremost Jews simply by virtue of their Jewish mothers. Allah is rendered impotent, intellectually and theologically.

 

[Jaggu]

Problem is when people generalize against an entire community just because a few bad people do some bad things. Americans say all Muslims are evil/bad just because of Al Qaida.

 

[Developereo]

I said before many times that we cannot live in an intellectual and moral vacuum,

But you DO live in an intellectual vacuum. You have demonstrated ignorance of just about every subject outside the cut-and-paste world of radar specs.

You jumped into this debate without having the faintest clue about Jewish laws or customs, or even about Maher's history on the Jewish extremism.

I wrote before that you are the Don Quixote of this forum. You live in your own delusional world, where you imagine what other people know or believe and then respond to your own hallucinations.

Since your own ignorance of Jewish laws and Maher's history was exposed, and since you can't address the fact that a Jewish person showing bias should be held to the same standard as a non-Jewish person, all you can do is spout your standard rant of anti-Semitism.
YOU may find the usual supporters in the gallery, but anyone with debating skills and experience views you with amusement and disdain.

Jewish bigots?

Do some basic research before resorting to the same bigotry you are accusing these guys of.

Bill Maher is an Aethist and Sam Harris is not Jewish.

Read the thread and educate yourself before blabbering.
Both Maher and Harris are born to a Jewish mother. Both of them are ethnic Jews by Orthodox Jewish laws and both of them are hardcore Zionists. Both of them show bias towards Jewish extremists.

Educate yourself about the subject before making an imbecile of yourself.

 

[RazPaK]

@Developereo

I know it's offtopic, but you are probably the only person that actually debates on the forum.

 

[Developereo]

@Developereo

I know it's offtopic, but you are probably the only person that actually debates on the forum.

See, when these people can't refute facts, all they can manage is a shrill rant of "anti-Semite, anti-Semite, ..."

In debating circles, these people would be laughed out in five minutes.

Like I wrote, if an Arab person showed favoritism to Arab fanatics, it would be discussed.
If a Pakistani showed favoritism to Pakistani fanatics, it would be discussed.
But when a Jewish person shows favoritism to Jewish fanatics, one must not mention it.

Maher is not the only rabidly hateful Jewish fanatic hiding behind the "was raised as ..." defence while attacking Muslims.

Krauthammer, Kristol, Perle, Wolfowitz, Cohen, Haas, Friedman, ... the list goes on an on...

 

[halupridol]

"maher n harris r hardcore zionists"

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

Not necessarily a good thing.

Never a good thing.

We got people killing each other because of bad blood of their great grandparents.

Yes, there were no contentions for leadership in the House of Iraq under Saddam Hussein. That was the point of my political analogy. In the House of Iraq under Saddam Hussein, there was a central authority figure where petitioners, domestic and foreign, could go to for guidance and instructions. We call them 'domestic' and 'foreign' affairs.
No different for the House of Islam, especially in matters of theology. But look at the House of Christianity for example. The world do not see Catholics beheading Amish, or Jehovah's Witnesses shooting it out in the streets against Mormons. And their differences in theologies and doctrines are no less severe and closely held than between Sunnis and Shias and whoever else in the House of Islam.
That was my point: That there is currently in the House of Islam competing figures for authority in terms of theology, doctrines, and even petty politics. This civil war have been low key bloody, but now it has escalated into full scale warfare that involved neighbors and neighbors of the worst kind: political entities.

By 'Mr. D' i assume your talking about @Developereo ? What's he to you? If a person is ignorant enough to argue about a person's religious background rather than intellect why argue with him?

Not according to your fellow Muslim: Mr. D. According to him, blood trumps Allah.
It is interesting that you use the word 'sincerity'. It denotes something that all of us tacitly acknowledged to be unknown, suspicious, and often must rely upon faith alone before we could act.
A convert to Islam is assumed, or taken on faith by other Muslims, that his/her conversion was 'sincere', and that he/she is to be treated as a Muslim on this life, and let Allah judge him/her for that unknown and suspicious 'sincerity' in the next life, correct ?
But if conversion is enough to warrant a change of hearts in the observers in this life that the convert is a 'new man/woman', so to speak, then it stands to reason that ignorance and non-experience are equally appropriate for the same observers to treat Maher and Harris as non-Jews. That ignorance and non-experience are from Maher and Harris because for all the public information about the men, neither of them have any significant exposure to Judaism in terms of practices of Jewish theology, rites, and daily living. Maher left Catholicism by his own will. Harris had a Quaker father and Jewish mother but neither of them exposed their son to their respective faiths. Common sense -- the instinctive kind -- tells us that Maher was a Catholic and Harris essentially a religious 'nobody'.
But according to Mr. D, presumably an educated and well traveled Muslim man from advanced first world Australia, Maher and Harris are first and foremost Jews simply by virtue of their Jewish mothers. Allah is rendered impotent, intellectually and theologically.

My understanding is that in order to be considered a 'Jew', within some circles of Judaism, one of the parents (father/mother?) has to be a Jew. But regardless of Jewish Law or any religious law, the beliefs of a person are between him and God.

Of course some laws have been taken way out of contexts. i.e. if you steal something in Saudi Arabia your right hand gets cut off. Is true only if you steal not to maintain substance but in excess. An Aladdin isn't going to get his hand cut off if he steal a piece of bread to give to two homeless children. But Robin Hood will.

The lack of knowledge on the behalf of Mr. Maher and Harris are to a certain point the fault of us Muslims. We have been unable to get on the roof tops to yell on top of our lungs that this talk is their lack of knowledge. But Mr. Maher, is a television celebrity much like Mr. John Stewart and Steven Colbert they have to appeal to their base.

Who am I so say that "I am a real true Muslim, and all of you are infidels?" Mr. D has the right to his own opinions, I have not really read all of his posts on this thread, but whether you decided to read them is on you. If his thread lacks intellect, such as one liners elongated with bull$h!t why argue with an ignorant person when the chances of you educating him are zero?

But you DO live in an intellectual vacuum. You have demonstrated ignorance of just about every subject outside the cut-and-paste world of radar specs.
You jumped into this debate without having the faintest clue about Jewish laws or customs, or even about Maher's history on the Jewish extremism.
I wrote before that you are the Don Quixote of this forum. You live in your own delusional world, where you imagine what other people know or believe and then respond to your own hallucinations.
Since your own ignorance of Jewish laws and Maher's history was exposed, and since you can't address the fact that a Jewish person showing bias should be held to the same standard as a non-Jewish person, all you can do is spout your standard rant of anti-Semitism.
YOU may find the usual supporters in the gallery, but anyone with debating skills and experience views you with amusement and disdain.

I Googled 'Don Quixote', so your saying @gambit is a member setting out to revive chivalry? And then my interest to read the Wikipedia article diminished.

A person regardless of race, religion, ethnicity, nationalist, etc etc etc should be held to a common standard. Its one thing to point it out but quite another to use it for your defense to everything he said.

Was it wrong for him to say "Islam is a mafia"? Yes, no less than it is wrong to say 'All Jews are Zionists who want to kill Palestinians.' Your lack of willingness to come out of your self created bubble to understand the cultures and religions of others is your own making. I would have thought a person in Australia, a multi-national/ ethnic nation would enlighten one of the world religions and cultures, but obviously not.

Read the thread and educate yourself before blabbering.
Both Maher and Harris are born to a Jewish mother. Both of them are ethnic Jews by Orthodox Jewish laws and both of them are hardcore Zionists. Both of them show bias towards Jewish extremists.
Educate yourself about the subject before making an imbecile of yourself.

 

[Mercenary]

Read the thread and educate yourself before blabbering.
Both Maher and Harris are born to a Jewish mother. Both of them are ethnic Jews by Orthodox Jewish laws and both of them are hardcore Zionists. Both of them show bias towards Jewish extremists.

Educate yourself about the subject before making an imbecile of yourself.

Bill Maher is born to an Irish Catholic father and Jewish Mother and is an ardent Aethist. His views on religion do not come from his Jewish mother but the fact he is a liberal and hates all religion.

But that is a concept to complex for your feeble mind to understand. Its far easier blaming Jew.

Keep espousing bigotry, and racism towards Jewish people.

You should ask for a refund for the kind of pathetic and gutter education you received.

 

[gambit]

My understanding is that in order to be considered a 'Jew', within some circles of Judaism, one of the parents (father/mother?) has to be a Jew.

As far as Maher and the vast majority of Americans -- I would dare say %99.999 of US -- are concerned, they would file those 'circles of Judaism' into the irrelevant bin.

It would be absurd for me, an Asian-American, to call myself a European or an African, simply due to certain unique physical features. But if I can convert to Judaism, that conversion is an indication that Judaism transcends national borders and ethnic/racial physical features. Same if I convert to Islam. What this means is that when it comes to religions, particularly the three Abrahamic ones that claims to be transcendent, what a person says about himself is more important than what he may have been or not have been.

The straining of obscure and %99.999 irrelevant Orthodox Jewish laws to make Maher and Harris into Jews is nothing more than rabid and irrational Jew hatred. No Orthodox Jew is going to demand that those men acknowledge their Jewishness. Only to the Muslims do this abstraction so important that it consumes their minds and compels them to seek out Jews when/where there are none.

 

[Developereo]

Bill Maher is born to an Irish Catholic father and Jewish Mother and is an ardent Aethist. His views on religion do not come from his Jewish mother but the fact he is a liberal and hates all religion.

But that is a concept to complex for your feeble mind to understand. Its far easier blaming Jew.

Keep espousing bigotry, and racism towards Jewish people.

You should ask for a refund for the kind of pathetic and gutter education you received.

Your ignorance of facts will not change reality.
Just spouting your imbecile rants without understanding the FACTS of Maher's conduct only make YOU look like a fool.

Contrary to your delusional babbling, I am not attacking "Jewish people". I am attacking a specific individual. Just because he is Jewish does not mean he gets exemption from his bigotry.

Bill Maher is NOT -- repeat NOT -- equally hateful towards all religions and all extremists. He shows a very clear bias towards Zionist extremists.

Educate yourself about his bias and then come debate.
Until then, don't waste my time.

I Googled 'Don Quixote', so your saying @gambit is a member setting out to revive chivalry? And then my interest to read the Wikipedia article diminished.

Your ignorance of popular literate is symptomatic of your ignorance of other matters being discussed here.

Don Quixote is a character who lives in his own delusional world. He imagines monsters and then slays them. It's all in his mind.

Like @gambit who, because he lacks the most basic knowledge of Orthodox Jews laws and got busted, is now making up claims about what I knew, or didn't know, about Maher and then attacks his own fabrications.

I have known about Maher's background for a long, long time. I know about his Jewish bias for a long time.

Your comical "discussion" with Don Quixote about Jewishness is hilarious. Like him, you remain perennially clueless about the difference between ethnicity and religion. Two ignorant fools who know zilch about Jewish customs are debating the topic. Quite the spectacle.

A person regardless of race, religion, ethnicity, nationalist, etc etc etc should be held to a common standard. Its one thing to point it out but quite another to use it for your defense to everything he said.

Was it wrong for him to say "Islam is a mafia"? Yes, no less than it is wrong to say 'All Jews are Zionists who want to kill Palestinians.' Your lack of willingness to come out of your self created bubble to understand the cultures and religions of others is your own making. I would have thought a person in Australia, a multi-national/ ethnic nation would enlighten one of the world religions and cultures, but obviously not.

The only one living in a delusional bubble is YOU.
Show me where I said that "All Jews are Zionists who want to kill Palestinians".

Until you can show me that statement, you will join the ranks of intellectually dishonest fools who can't argue with facts and make things up out of thin air.

FACT: Bill Maher is NOT, repeat NOT, equally critical of all religions and extremists.
FACT: Bill Maher is a hardcore Zionist and is mostly forgiving of religious fanaticism by Zionists.
FACT: If anyone else showed this bias, we would examine the reasons.

 

[fallstuff]

Bill Maher is a disturbed individual.
He bad mouths Islam and Christianity on a constant basis, while promoting Benjamin Netanyahoo in his show as a guest. This guy is just pure vile.

Bill Maher Defends Israel Again: ‘People Die in Wars’ | Mediaite

 

[Genesis]

I don't believe Islam is evil or barbaric, certainly some ideas need to be updated to a 21st century understanding, but the religion of Islam certainly isn't evil. If it were, I doubt so many would follow, like the bible before it, anything can be turned into anything if you choose to do so.


Having said that I must make a comment, one of the reasons for Islam's reputation is actually similar to Chinese. Chinese in Western world has sort of changed over the last 10-15 years, no longer are we seen as poor and uneducated, arriving on a boat, the first Jet Li movie in America, lethal weapon 4 I think, had China look poor, crazy, dark, armies in charge of everything, fast forward to today, educated, sophisticated, though still evil/corrupt(to be fair so are the Americans in that show), our power is represented, I'm of course talking house of cards.

If Islam want to change this perception, one nation or a few must rise to the occasion, Indonesia has a chance of doing that, we'll see where it leads.

Lastly, bombing someone with a home made bomb is terrorism, bombing with a 4th gen fighter, is war.

Bill Maher is a disturbed individual.
He bad mouths Islam and Christianity on a constant basis, while promoting Benjamin Netanyahoo in his show as a guest. This guy is just pure vile.

View attachment 120239

Bill Maher Defends Israel Again: ‘People Die in Wars’ | Mediaite

is the word YAHOO, actually in his name, lol , yea I know how it's actually spelled, but still hilarious, and I don't mean the website.