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Being a woman in Pakistan

yaar i think honour killing mein both married couple are killed,thats a case of intercaste marriage

wrong! you did not google Khap, or do not read paper much. Khap Panchayat's of Haryana , is against marriage in same sub caste, considering it as "sibling" marriage. "Same Gotra"
 
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Being a woman in Pakistan. A god topic to debate on. But I am disappointed on some posts. Infect on a majority of posts.

Some people believe that Islam is responsible, some believe Islam's interpretation (wrong) is responsible, others believe it is the society yet few dismiss the it altogether.

I have questions:
By proving that Islam is responsible, would this situation end?
By blaming Society, would the situation get better for women?
By proving the interpretation(wrong) of Islam, would there be any change in women's life?
By dismissing it altogether, would we be doing something better for women?

The situation is not that simple nor it is too complex. The right thing to do is to get up and do something for the women who get beaten, raped, humiliated, and so on. Simply giving "fatwas" won't help at all.

Understanding that it is mainly a problem of evolution of a society is a strong first step towards addressing this problem. Discussing whether religion is a cause for the problem will not get you far. It is a problem, a significant one,but there is very little anyone can do about it directly. The only way is to work around religion & put your faith in the evolution of society where religion has be creatively interpreted. All religions, if you search hard enough impose some or the other restrictions on women. It's a reflection of the society religion itself evolved from. Christians have done this transformation in western countries and most modern Hindus rarely heed the call of religion in matters of societal change. Both these religions had issues which has been partially resolved by changing with the times. That's what Pakistanis have to do & that is why you need to change society. As long as society refuses to evolve ( though i must admit, it is a bit of a vicious cycle), religion will always be used as the tool to deny any movement on addressing social issues.
 
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Understanding that it is mainly a problem of evolution of a society is a strong first step towards addressing this problem. Discussing whether religion is a cause for the problem will not get you far. It is a problem, a significant one,but there is very little anyone can do about it directly. The only way is to work around religion & put your faith in the evolution of society where religion has be creatively interpreted. All religions, if you search hard enough impose some or the other restrictions on women. It's a reflection of the society religion itself evolved from. Christians have done this transformation in western countries and most modern Hindus rarely heed the call of religion in matters of societal change. Both these religions had issues which has been partially resolved by changing with the times. That's what Pakistanis have to do & that is why you need to change society. As long as society refuses to evolve ( though i must admit, it is a bit of a vicious cycle), religion will always be used as the tool to deny any movement on addressing social issues.

Actually Islam is a religion which facilitates the evolution of society .. But the un-Islamic transformation should not justified as the one and only right way.
Though Christianity and other religions have been through that transformation. But just look at the evils that transformation has brought. Prostituion,Homosexuality are not bad examples, even a priest in Church can be a gay. I am very much certin that How much the moderate Hindus transform , they cannot justify homosexuality as a part of there religion. If you look at the cause, theres a great part of that "Transformation" in unleashing such evils. Just two/three decades ago we never heared of Gay Politicians,Lesbian Singers,Gay Bishops in Church.. Etc.
If you follow such transformation, you may realise that the economic concerns were the main theme behind such transformations. How many Gay/Lesbo Clubs are there in US..and how much the US Gov earns from them as taxes?
Why there are **** Awards being held infact, quite openly..? Its a huge business. And those who raise voice against it, are either left unnoticed or are brutally moved out of the way as incase of Islamic Religion.
I am sure no matter how much people in south Asia Transform, They cannot leave there parents alone when they need them(some may do but only a minute minority).. Such a transformation was also reflected in the famous movie of Baghbaan..!
 
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IMO there are three reasons; religious, cultural and economics for the unfair treatment of women.

From the 7th century and until well into the 18th century, women had more rights in Islamic societies than in any other religion or country. Alas with the end of Baghdad Caliphate, Ijethad was banned and evolution of Islamic thought frozen.

Islam of today is therefore stuck somewhere in the middle ages. Primary reason being that progressive Mu'tazalites lost and the conservatives led by Imam Hanbal and later by Ibne Timyah won. In my view women living during the time of the holy Prophet (PBUH) were more educated and had more rights than those in the 21st Century Afghanistan under Taliban rule.

Culture always has been a major influence on the religious practices. Imam Ibne Timiyah correctly observed that even though non Muslim Turks/Mongols converted to Islam, they kept many of their cultural values and practices intact. This is clearly evident in Pakistani society were many of the customs and ceremonies belonging to Hindu culture are still prevalent.

For example in Pakistan it is still considered improper for widows to remarry though very common in Arab culture. In Punjab and Sindh, you not only part with your daughter; you are expected to also give lots of goodies with her in dowry; essentially a Hindu culture practice. In most other Muslim areas, including tribal areas of Pakistan, you got to pay ‘Bride Price’ or Haq Maher before you are allowed to take your bride home.

I disagree with the example of homosexuality quoted by Hon. H2O3C4Nitrogen.

Despite the fact that homosexuality is forbidden in all religions especially in Islam; societies where male/female intermixing is rare, homosexuality is common. It would be hypocritical to deny practice of homosexuality in Afghanistan and Pashtoon areas of Pakistan. I have come across its instances in Arab countries as well. Iranian members will acknowledge that residents of the city of Qazvin are supposed to be notorious for it. Only difference being that in the West it is now socially accepted but in other countries it is hidden under the carpet.

Cultural traditions such as ‘Vanni’ or marriage with Quran are accepted by ostensibly religious people even though totally against Islamic laws. Even today marriage to someone belonging to lower status tribe or cast is considered an insult in rural areas but no religious scholar or Mullah dares to utter a word against it.

In the end all thing are ruled by the economics. Social scientists realized long time ago that what really counts is economic independence.

As long as women are kept uneducated and totally dependent upon their husbands/ fathers; they would remain under control and quitely accept whatever is borne on them. As soon as woman is capable of earning an independent living, she would refuse to accept unjust and unfair treatment by her husband or even her father. This is the real reason why Taliban and Wahabis are against educating women.

After fairly extensive observations of the day to day practices in Pakistan, Iran and in Arab countries; I have come to the conclusion that societies in general bend/interpret Islamic laws to suit their requirements. Over the years, pre Islamic cultural practices become accepted as part of religious traditions.

Except in some pockets of the major cities such as Karachi and Lahore; in most areas of Pakistan condition of women is deplorable. Though a few cases of ill treatment come to light thru the media; only Allah knows how many go unreported. I salute all my Pakistani sisters who make a name for themselves despite all the injustice.
 
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Most Religions today have do's and dont's depending on their degree of societal reform.During Dwapar Yuga (when Krishna reigned) polygamy was a practice amongst women.Women had become very powerful and at that point,it was felt that polygamy and especially originating from women,would lead to societal collapse and chaos.It is the woman who holds together the fibre of any society all said and done.While this rule is applied to a woman in all cultures,in some cultures polygamy is sanctioned for men,but a woman does not have the same right.We are not discussing the goodness or badness of these rights.With respect to homsexuality too i do not see any specific reasons other than the fact that it will cause a breakdown of the laws of procreation,and also do away with social norms like marriage,family etc.
Historically women have been put into the role of the vanquished,and this continues on and on .Rape ,bigotry,honour killing,lack of social justice,dowry,domestic violence,and all crimes agains't women originate with archaic laws and the mindset developed thereon.Women will make their own space in the world no matter what.Look at what the saudi women are ready to do so that they can Drive!So salute to women in pakistan and a salute to all the women in this world.
 
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IMO there are three reasons; religious, cultural and economics for the unfair treatment of women.

From the 7th century and until well into the 18th century, women had more rights in Islamic societies than in any other religion or country. Alas with the end of Baghdad Caliphate, Ijethad was banned and evolution of Islamic thought frozen.

Islam of today is therefore stuck somewhere in the middle ages. Primary reason being that progressive Mu'tazalites lost and the conservatives led by Imam Hanbal and later by Ibne Timya won. In my view women living during the time of the holy Prophet (PBUH) were more educated and had more rights than those in the 21st Century Afghanistan under Taliban rule.

Culture always has been a major influence on the religious practices. Imam Ibne Timiyah correctly observed that even though non Muslim Turks/Mongols converted to Islam, they kept many of their cultural values and practices intact. This is clearly evident in Pakistani society were many of the customs and ceremonies belonging to Hindu culture are still prevalent.

For example in Pakistan it is still considered improper for widows to remarry though very common in Arab culture. In Punjab and Sindh, you not only part with your daughter; you are expected to also give lots of goodies with her in dowry; essentially a Hindu culture practice. In most other Muslim areas, including tribal areas of Pakistan, you got to pay ‘Bride Price’ or Haq Maher before you are allowed to take your bride home.

I disagree with the example of homosexuality quoted by Hon. H2O3C4Nitrogen.

Despite the fact that homosexuality is forbidden in all religions especially in Islam; societies where male/female intermixing is rare, homosexuality is common. It would be hypocritical to deny practice of homosexuality in Afghanistan and Pashtoon areas of Pakistan. I have come across its instances in Arab countries as well. Iranian members will acknowledge that residents of the city of Qazvin are supposed to be notorious for it. Only difference being that in the West it is now socially accepted but in other countries it is hidden under the carpet.

Cultural traditions such as ‘Vanni’ or marriage with Quran are accepted by ostensibly religious people even though totally against Islamic laws. Even today marriage to someone belonging to lower status tribe or cast is considered an insult in rural areas but no religious scholar or Mullah dares to utter a word against it.

In the end all thing are ruled by the economics. Social scientists realized long time ago that what really counts is economic independence.

As long as women are kept uneducated and totally dependent upon their husbands/ fathers; they would remain under control and quitely accept whatever is borne on them. As soon as woman is capable of earning an independent living, she would refuse to accept unjust and unfair treatment by her husband or even her father. This is the real reason why Taliban and Wahabis against educating women.

After fairly extensive observations of the day to day practices in Pakistan, Iran and in Arab countries; I have come to the conclusion that societies in general bend/interpret Islamic laws to suit their requirements. Over the years, pre Islamic cultural practices become accepted as part of religious traditions.

Except in some pockets of the major cities such as Karachi and Lahore; in most areas of Pakistan condition of women is deplorable. Though a few cases of ill treatment come to light thru the media; only Allah knows how many go unreported. I salute all my Pakistani sisters who make a name for themselves despite all the injustice.

i am astonished how cleverly this member mixes/mingles all the stuff to run his propangda .. real amazing talent..
 
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i am astonished how cleverly this member mixes/mingles all the stuff to run his propangda .. real amazing talent..

This is the cancer that dwells inside the bowels of Pakistan. Maybe one day we will have an unbeatable cure, but for that we must work hard and educate.
 
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I hope its not offtopic, but pakistani(read punjabi) women are hell of a beauty. :smitten:

Very off-topic buddy, i don't wanna read "banned members" again. Reply on topic or stay away. It was a beautiful thread that is being destroyed now :whistle:
 
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I can see the link you are trying to establish between Islam and bad treatment of women but how about other countries ? America isn't a muslim country yet ther A WOMAN IS RAPED EVERY TWO MINUTES ?

Enlighten Yourself: Rape Statistics
 
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I can see the link you are trying to establish between Islam and bad treatment of women but how about other countries ? America isn't a muslim country yet ther A WOMAN IS RAPED EVERY TWO MINUTES ?

Enlighten Yourself: Rape Statistics

dont worry they ve invented the women condoms, just read on PDF lol..
 
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