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Beautiful Post : Kashmir - SarthakGanguly's Logical Comment

Wait all you want. No third party can get involved in Kashmir without both India and Pakistan agreeing to it as stipulated in the Simla Agreement. It just ain't gonna happen.

history prove otherwise, they will have to focus Kashmir again ..... so till then Indians & Pakistanis should pass their time by trolling to each other over 'K' ..... :lol:
 
history prove otherwise, they will have to focus Kashmir again ..... so till then Indians & Pakistanis should pass their time by trolling to each other over 'K' ..... :lol:

Nearly three-fourths of a century of history proves me right so far.
 
Nearly three-fourths of a century of history proves me right so far.

so be happy ....

but let me remind you about 48, 65,71, 98, 2001 there were always 'some others' present in 'bilateral' diplomatic contacts
 
Gandhi and Nehru messed up big time with India as a whole and Kashmir in particular respectively....Rest is all history..

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This is a Beautiful Post. Hats Off, to the Man "@SarthakGanguly" Who Wrote This :


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That unfortunately is the bottomline for the separatists and their fanboys. :D

Oh btw - do you know Mirwaiz was pelted with stones when he tried giving a speech on Army's mishandling? :D

Pakistanis often claim Kashmir as the unfinished business of Partition. That's the communal State policy ( since partition was itself was communal!)
But it was unfair that in 1947, only Muslims were asked if they wished to separate. The Hindus were not consulted if they wanted to stay united or not! If a referendum is done, let's do one for all of India and Pakistan as well by the same logic? It's not too far-fetched. East West Germany, North South Yemen etc did get united. Why not do a referendum and get over with it?

If not, then at least let all Indians (who have invested money, shed blood and cried and labored over Kashmir) also have a vote? They certainly have done more for Kashmir than Geelani and his cohorts.

On the other hand, if Muslim majority is the only logic (as it is) then why not hold a referendum in Western UP, North Kerala, parts of West Bengal, Southern Assam, Hyderabad, etc? Why should they be discriminated? They are also as Muslim as a Dar or a Butt(converted from Dhar and Bhatt) of Kashmir. They should also be given the choice of not only joining Pakistan but carry the land along as well!

The whole idea is hilarious, to say the least.

Source : Should Kashmir get a chance to decide their future through Referendum?

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Dear read it again, rather to term Pakistan as an aggressor Gov. of India was complaining about the non-cooperative behaviour of Pakistan with India, further India filled its case under the chapter VI of UN charter which deals with the Pacific Settlement of Disputes, not with under the chapter VII of UN which specifically deal with the ACTION WITH RESPECT TO THREATS TO THE PEACE, BREACHES OF THE PEACE, AND ACTS OF AGGRESSION so in short, India accepted that Kashmir is a Disputed matter & denied the Kashmir uprising as act of aggression.
Filing the complaint under Chap 6 and not under Chap 7 was mere technicality. Chap 6 resolutions are meant to be recommendatory while Chap 7 resolutions are obligatory. India didn't want anything that would bind her for life.

India's complaint against Pakistan was, is and will always be that Kashmir had lawfully acceded to India and that Pakistan is the aggressor.

Following are excerpts from Sir Owen Dixon's report. He was narrating New Delhi's position.

Upon a number of occasions in the course of the period beginning with the reference on 1 January 1948 of the Kashmir dispute to the Security Council, India had advanced not only the contention to which I have already referred that Pakistan was an aggressor but the further contention that this should be declared. [Dixon Report, S/ 1791, pg 7]

I shall enumerate the objections briefly as I collected them from the telegram and from my discussion with the Prime Minister at Delhi. (1) Pakistan is an aggressor and it would be to surrender to aggression to allow her to take any part in the plebiscite. [Dixon Report, S/1791, pg 23]
It is amusing that you want to debate about Kashmir and yet don't know anything about India's official position.
 
Pakistan didn't have an Independent Media before the 2000s naturally neither did AJK - It wasn't something sinister...it was just something the rest of us went through as well !

You could've at least bothered to look at the links of Special Communications Organization before you copy-pasted the information from Wikipedia; most of them have been scratched because most don't work & the one that does work About Us | Special Communication Organization - Doesn't mention the Pakistan Army anywhere ! Additionally the rest of the links have been distorted to give information that the link don't talk about hence why they're scratched...just click on a couple to find out how the information contained within them is different to the information posted in Wiki.

Do you want me to post articles on censorship in Indian Occupied Kashmir ?

So far as the Kashmir Council is concerned do you know who sits on the Kashmir Council ? The President of AJK, PM of AJK & 6 AJK Assembly Members along with the PM of Pakistan & 5 MNAs. (Section 21)

Thats 8 votes to 6 !

The High Court & Supreme Court Judges are appointed by the PM of AJK ! (Section 42)

Neither the Ministry of Kashmir Affairs nor the Chief Secretary can dismiss either the PM or the President of AJK ! (Section 6 & 18)

The Federal Minister of State for Kashmir Affair only gets to sit on the Kashmir Council as one of the 5 Federal Ministers (Section 21 s.s 3 & 10) and thats the extent of his purpotedly draconian powers.

If you find something to the contrary in the http://www.ajkassembly.gok.pk/AJK_Interim_Constitution_Act_1974.pdf please enlighten me.
Nothing from Kashmir gets censored,we've a free media.But have you wondered why doesnt much news come out Azad Kashmir??
your guess is as good as mine!!
You've even allowed the Chinese troops in Azad Kashmir..and what for??
Even the Chinese have accepted that there 're about 5000 troops in Azad Kashmir.
And did not 2 years back the residents of Neelum valley protest against the militant activity in the region??
These militants enter J&K through neelum valley..who doesnt know?
And what is the kashmiri thing left in Azad Kashmir when Azad Kashmir's population is mostly Sunni Muslim and predominantly Punjabi-speaking with barely 20 percent Kashmiris??
 
Sometimes this Kashmir topic just goes no where in PDF....You know the bottomline is for Indian friends, We have some portions of Kashmir and we are retaining it...Who cares about Human right....people sentiment ...all these terms....Does really rest of the other countries conducts themselves in these terms? ....If this is the case, then most of the countries have separatist movement...then every nation would have to be divided...And for Pakistan posters..We are in Kashmir, becuase we have the power to put our boots on it for last 67 year...We will be there till someone else replace us...Rest all arguments are just journalistic arguments only....
 
so be happy ....

but let me remind you about 48, 65,71, 98, 2001 there were always 'some others' present in 'bilateral' diplomatic contacts

All of these proved to be defeats for Pakistan. There will always be "some others" present on Earth unless Pakistan moves to Mars. Oh wait, India is already there!
 
@SarthakGanguly Bai Ji :tup:

Nothing from Kashmir gets censored,we've a free media.But have you wondered why doesnt much news come out Azad Kashmir??
your guess is as good as mine!!
You've even allowed the Chinese troops in Azad Kashmir..and what for??
Even the Chinese have accepted that there 're about 5000 troops in Azad Kashmir.
And did not 2 years back the residents of Neelum valley protest against the militant activity in the region??
These militants enter J&K through neelum valley..who doesnt know?
And what is the kashmiri thing left in Azad Kashmir when Azad Kashmir's population is mostly Sunni Muslim and predominantly Punjabi-speaking with barely 20 percent Kashmiris??

I call him Mullah Ji for Reasons.:partay:
 
Nothing from Kashmir gets censored,we've a free media.But have you wondered why doesnt much news come out Azad Kashmir??
your guess is as good as mine!!

There are countless local & international reports on the 'free media' & 'freedom' in Indian Occupied Kashmir.

So far as AJK is concerned; it has just as much or just as little free media as the rest of Pakistan !

If you can't see 'much news' coming out of AJK that isn't my concern; use the search function on 'GOOGLE' instead of gathering your information from such beat-up article like your previous attempts at talking about the Kashmir Affairs Committee, the Council or who gets to fire or hire the PM & the President of AJK !

You've even allowed the Chinese troops in Azad Kashmir..and what for??
Even the Chinese have accepted that there 're about 5000 troops in Azad Kashmir.

There are no Chinese Troops in Pakistan barring the sensationalist BS that gets printed in trashy articles; I was in AJK last year and in GB a few years back & unless the Chinese learned how to make Invisibility Cloaks....they were no where to be seen & 5000 troops is not a small number to hide !

There are Chinese Engineers working in Pakistan from the Punjab to Baluchistan & up North along the Karakorum Highway !

And what is the kashmiri thing left in Azad Kashmir when Azad Kashmir's population is mostly Sunni Muslim and predominantly Punjabi-speaking with barely 20 percent Kashmiris??

I don't know whether AJK's population is mostly Sunni or not because Pakistan hasn't carried out a census on sectarian lines so far as I can tell though I would not be surprised to find out that they are because Muslims the world over are overwhelmingly so mostly Sunnis; but if the implied assertion here is that the Pakistan Army or the Establishment or whatever you wish to call your imagined Bogeyman here, is systematically eliminating Shias in AJK then all I'd say is 'Atleast try to THINK your arguments through before making them' !

Different reports, articles & the sort have time & time again asserted that GB is a majority Shia administrative unit with a strong Ismaili minority (who too are Shias) & a smaller Sunni minority; the X Corp of the Pakistan Army is deployed across AJK & GB. And one of the most illustrious units of that X Corp are the North Light Infantry battalions under the Northern Command who are predominantly recruited from the same Shia & Ismaili majority GB. If the Establishment was doing what it is accused of doing there would be at least a 'single' instance of protest or internal fighting or something to the effect in the Army at large (which has a lot of Shias in it), the Police (which too is predominantly Shia in GB & has Shias in it in AJK) & the NLI or are you suggesting that the Army that failed to clamp down on talks of alleged 5000 Chinese troops being present in Pakistan suddenly became so good at concealment that no one was able to get a peep out of anyone about any Sectarian Tensions within the Army, the Police & the NLI ?

And this keeping in mind that whereas the AJK & GB nationals & domicile holders are less than 3-4% of Pakistan they are more than 10% of the Army !

Conversely Indian Occupied Kashmir is majority Sunni as well with Shia minority just like AJK & the rest of Pakistan & the majority of the Muslim World !

So far as the Ethnic Makeup of Kashmir is concerned; AJK was never a Koshur speaking area but always a Pahari speaking area. The Majority speaks Pahari there neither Koshur (like the Valley) nor Punjabi but there are Koshur & Punjabi speaking people there because of close geographical proximity that has existed for centuries & isn't a new phenomenon !

Why do you think my ancestors came to Punjab & didn't go to North Indian in the late 1800s ? Why do you think that tens of thousands of them did the same & now there descendants number in the hundreds of thousands ? Because Kashmir is geographically, ethnically, linguistically, culturally & religiously contiguous to Punjab & KPK !

If you want to know more about the internal ethnic make-up of AJK you can ask @waz - He is an AJK National !
 
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There are countless local & international reports on the 'free media' & 'freedom' in Indian Occupied Kashmir.

So far as AJK is concerned; it has just as much or just as little free media as the rest of Pakistan !

If you can't see 'much news' coming out of AJK that isn't my concern; use the search function on 'GOOGLE' instead of gathering your information from such beat-up article like your previous attempts at talking about the Kashmir Affairs Committee, the Council or who gets to fire or hire the PM & the President of AJK !



There are no Chinese Troops in Pakistan barring the sensationalist BS that gets printed in trashy articles; I was in AJK last year and in GB a few years back & unless the Chinese learned how to make Invisibility Cloaks....they were no where to be seen & 5000 troops is not a small number to hide !

There are Chinese Engineers working in Pakistan from the Punjab to Baluchistan & up North along the Karakorum Highway !



I don't know whether AJK's population is mostly Sunni or not because Pakistan hasn't carried out a census on sectarian lines so far as I can tell though I would not be surprised to find out that they are because Muslims the world over are overwhelmingly so mostly Sunnis; but if the implied assertion here is that the Pakistan Army or the Establishment or whatever you wish to call your imagined Bogeyman here, is systematically eliminating Shias in AJK then all I'd say is 'Atleast try to THINK your arguments through before making them' !

Different reports, articles & the sort have time & time again asserted that GB is a majority Shia administrative unit with a strong Ismaili minority (who too are Shias) & a smaller Sunni minority; the X Corp of the Pakistan Army is deployed across AJK & GB. And one of the most illustrious units of that X Corp are the North Light Infantry battalions under the Northern Command who are predominantly recruited from the same Shia & Ismaili majority GB. If the Establishment was doing what it is accused of doing there would be at least a 'single' instance of protest or internal fighting or something to the effect in the Army at large (which has a lot of Shias in it), the Police (which too is predominantly Shia in GB & has Shias in it in AJK) & the NLI or are you suggesting that the Army that failed to clamp down on talks of alleged 5000 Chinese troops being present in Pakistan suddenly became so good at concealment that no one was able to get a peep out of anyone about any Sectarian Tensions within the Army, the Police & the NLI ?

And this keeping in mind that whereas the AJK & GB nationals & domicile holders are less than 3-4% of Pakistan they are more than 10% of the Army !

Conversely Indian Occupied Kashmir is majority Sunni as well with Shia minority just like AJK & the rest of Pakistan & the majority of the Muslim World !

So far as the Ethnic Makeup of Kashmir is concerned; AJK was never a Koshur speaking area but always a Pahari speaking area. The Majority speaks Pahari there neither Koshur (like the Valley) nor Punjabi but there are Koshur & Punjabi speaking people there because of close geographical proximity that has existed for centuries & isn't a new phenomenon !

Why do you think my ancestors came to Punjab & didn't go to North Indian in the late 1800s ? Why do you think that tens of thousands of them did the same & now there descendants number in the hundreds of thousands ? Because Kashmir is geographically, ethnically, linguistically, culturally & religiously contiguous to Punjab & KPK !

If you want to know more about the internal ethnic make-up of AJK you can ask @waz - He is an AJK National !

Not informed are you???

This was posted in 2012

The dangerous presence of Chinese troops in Gilgit-Baltistan | neurope.eu

And this is Chinese ministers tale aboutthe same in 2014

China says its personnel in Azad Kashmir not a threat - Livemint
 
Not informed are you???

This was posted in 2012

The dangerous presence of Chinese troops in Gilgit-Baltistan | neurope.eu

And this is Chinese ministers tale aboutthe same in 2014

China says its personnel in Azad Kashmir not a threat - Livemint

Levina be sensible; do you think 'articles' substantiate the presence of Chinese Troops anymore than 'articles' substantiated the presence of WMDs in Iraq - These are 5000 troops we're talking about....where the heck are they in GB ?

Are they hiding under a rock ?

Are they disguised as the local flora & fauna ?

How do you hide 5000 troops ?

There are Engineers in GB, in AJK, in Punjab, in Baluchistan, in Sindh, in KPK & any other part of Pakistan where Pakistan & China are collaborating !

Last I checked Engineers don't equal Soldiers !

And the Chinese Minister did not talk about the presence of troops in Pakistan but the presence of Chinese Personnel right after the article mentions Pak-China plans to build an Economic Corridor !

Besides ask yourself why would Pakistan want Chinese Troops in GB or AJK ? To what purpose ?

To fight you guys ? The Chinese don't fight for other countries & mostly they don't fight at all....their Foreign Policy isn't geared like that !

And why would we need the help of 5000 Chinese troops to fight India ? We've got a few hundred thousand eyeball to eyeball with their Indian counterparts already !

If you don't believe me ask @Icarus or @Xeric - They know more than a thing or two about these things !

@levina - Who is that cutu bootuu in your avatar ? :kiss3:
 
If you want to know more about the internal ethnic make-up of AJK you can ask @waz - He is an AJK National !

Do you think brother it would make any difference explaining the ethnic make-up to folks who never have, and never will set foot in AJK? Remember the other dude who claimed Pathans lived in the thousands in AJK? I literally took his post apart and gave him the breakdown by administered area, with even Indian members agreeing with me, but he ignored my posts and carried on.

There are thousands of ethnic Kashmiris in Azad Kashmir, too numerous to count. But yet we also have thousands of people who speak Pahari as their native tongue, but that doesn't mean these people should be excluded from Kashmir's social fabric. India itself administers the regions Rajouri. Poonch and Doda, where Phari is the majority tongue and are taken into consul with any workings in the Valley. Yes it is counted as Jammu, but you have Kishtwar district, which is also in Jammu, but has Kashmiri as its majority language. Basically the lines are blurred and things are not literally black and white.
 
Do you think brother it would make any difference explaining the ethnic make-up to folks who never have, and never will set foot in AJK? Remember the other dude who claimed Pathans lived in the thousands in AJK? I literally took his post apart and gave him the breakdown by administered area, with even Indian members agreeing with me, but he ignored my posts and carried on.

There are thousands of ethnic Kashmiris in Azad Kashmir, too numerous to count. But yet we also have thousands of people who speak Pahari as their native tongue, but that doesn't mean these people should be excluded from Kashmir's social fabric. India itself administers the regions Rajouri. Poonch and Doda, where Phari is the majority tongue and are taken into consul with any workings in the Valley. Yes it is counted as Jammu, but you have Kishtwar district, which is also in Jammu, but has Kashmiri as its majority language. Basically the lines are blurred and things are not literally black and white.

I can't speak Koshur ! :(

Nor do I know much about Kashmiri Culture ! :cry:

And I'm shamelessly proud of those two facts ! :D

Because Kashmiris are Chickens ! :whistle:

Heck if I were commanding a Legion of Butts....Kashmir kiyaa aaap ka Bhai Japan tukkk subb kuch conquer kar leitaaa ! :azn:
 
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