BDR Requests Non-lethal Weapons at Border

[TopCat]

I don't understand, why should we do all the effort, spend money build a fence alone...you sit there passing judgement.. Is it not in your interest to have a fence?Do you want people to get shot while crossing border

If its is why aren't you contributing?

If not, then why bother at all ..just shoot the people, who try to illegally cross the border.

Because we dont have to. We do trust our own people unlike Indians. Just try to roam around inside our territory, and you find yourself in the hand of villager who will just take you to the police station. When BDR unable to petrol our borders for instance Philkhaka incident its our villagers who secured our border with primitive weapons. When Myanmar sents spy with arms inside our border, it was our citizen who caught them and handed over to BDR.
You are not even feeling safe sitting in Delhi or in Chennai. You kill your own citizen without any mercy, you even advocate to mining your own land you even dont control 30% of you own territorry. Do you think a mere fence will save you from all those misery. I respectfully disagree. Some IT professional who are always in a lookout for a US visa or cyber warrior are not your India buddy. Just get out and look around to see the real India and the real Indians.

 

[Von Hölle]

Because we dont have to. We do trust our own people unlike Indians. Just try to roam around inside our territory, and you find yourself in the hand of villager who will just take you to the police station. When BDR unable to petrol our borders for instance Philkhaka incident its our villagers who secured our border with primitive weapons. When Myanmar sents spy with arms inside our border, it was our citizen who caught them and handed over to BDR.
You are not even feeling safe sitting in Delhi or in Chennai. You kill your own citizen without any mercy, you even advocate to mining your own land you even dont control 30% of you own territorry. Do you think a mere fence will save you from all those misery. I respectfully disagree. Some IT professional who are always in a lookout for a US visa or cyber warrior are not your India buddy. Just get out and look around to see the real India and the real Indians.

Whatever you might say, but it is not India, who is complaining, but rather Bangladesh?..hence if you want to solve the problem, then meet us halfway.

We will have no problems, as long as you will keep your people on your side of the border.

 

[TopCat]

Whatever you might say, but it is not India, who is complaining, but rather Bangladesh?..hence if you want to solve the problem, then meet us halfway.

We will have no problems, as long as you will keep your people in your side of of border.

I said its not our problem. Its your problem. And you have to follow the international protocol. We will keep on pressing so that you do.

Didnt we make you to fence within your territorry? Yes we did.
Didnt we make you to consider nolethal weapon. Yes we did.

 

[Von Hölle]

I said its not our problem. Its your problem. And you have to follow the international protocol. We will keep on pressing so that you do.

Didnt we make you to fence within your territorry? Yes we did.
Didnt we make you to consider nolethal weapon. Yes we did.

Well if you are happy with your success, have already achieved your goals then what is BDR complaining about ?

If you don't even wan't to attempt to mend your ways.. fine!!
We will take whatever action we feel is right..if BSF feels they should only use lathis against intruders..fine!!... but if they are not comfortable with the arrangement ..then it is business as usual.

 

[TopCat]

Well if you are happy with your success, have already achieved your goals then what is BDR complaining about ?

If you don't even wan't to attempt to mend your ways.. fine!!
We will take whatever action we feel is right..if BSF feels they should only use lathis against intruders..fine!!... but if they are not comfortable with the arrangement ..then it is business as usual.

Its not who runs countries. Just grow up!!

 

[Von Hölle]

Its not who runs countries. Just grow up!!

Perhaps you don't know this, but armed forces opinion is considered(seriously), when taking such decisions..because it is ultimately their responsibility to protect the borders..Indian government will take no such descion, which will handicap the armed forces, specially if the other government is less than cooperative will not take any action.

 

[TopCat]

Perhaps you don't know this, but armed forces opinion is considered(seriously), when taking such decisions..because it is ultimately their responsibility to protect the borders..Indian government will take no such descion, which will handicap the armed forces, specially if the other government is less than cooperative will not take any action.

Then you start writing Indian constitution.

 

[Von Hölle]

Then you start writing Indian constitution.

Clearly you are not able to counter the arguments, hence you have started trolling.

 

[Urbanized Greyhound]

I said its not our problem. Its your problem. And you have to follow the international protocol. We will keep on pressing so that you do.

Didnt we make you to fence within your territorry? Yes we did.
Didnt we make you to consider nolethal weapon. Yes we did.

of course it is your problem ......is it our responsibility to ensure the safety of BD nationals or yours ?.....International protocol demands a movement across international boundaries with a Visa or a valid passport.....

We can press back too.....and we already have when we deported several illegal immigrants back to BD.....and we are content with our BSF 's endeavours but in the interest of healthy relations we accede to some of your more reasonable requests .....its a two way street and if you dont cooperate with us, we wont be considerate towards you....

 

[TopCat]

of course it is your problem ......is it our responsibility to ensure the safety of BD nationals or yours ?.....International protocol demands a movement across international boundaries with a Visa or a valid passport.....

We can press back too.....and we already have when we deported several illegal immigrants back to BD.....and we are content with our BSF 's endeavours but in the interest of healthy relations we accede to some of your more reasonable requests .....its a two way street and if you dont cooperate with us, we wont be considerate towards you....

you are right on money. also the protocol clearly says how to deal with anybody who try to pass without valid document. if you dont know we can start a training session in Bangladesh free of charge. We dont treat Indians who intrude our territorry and dont send body bags. even though we were same once as like as indians but we moved on.

For the second part, yes it always mutual. but in your case you need us far more than we need you. we can live without indian co-operation and 1/2 smuggler getting killed every other month which we could live with. We can also shoot indians but there were unilateral restraint shown which might continue regardless of indian co-operaton. our civil society is very vocal against killing and dont take it as our weakness but a healthy move towards civilization. if you want to catch up with us thats your choice but we can always show you the right path that we always did.

 

[Urbanized Greyhound]

you are right on money. also the protocol clearly says how to deal with anybody who try to pass without valid document. if you dont know we can start a training session in Bangladesh free of charge. We dont treat Indians who intrude our territorry and dont send body bags. even though we were same once as like as indians but we moved on.

For the second part, yes it always mutual. but in your case you need us far more than we need you. we can live without indian co-operation and 1/2 smuggler getting killed every other month which we could live with. We can also shoot indians but there were unilateral restraint shown which might continue regardless of indian co-operaton. our civil society is very vocal against killing and dont take it as our weakness but a healthy move towards civilization. if you want to catch up with us thats your choice but we can always show you the right path that we always did.

I understand that sensational reporting by the media has filled your mind with a lot of horror stories about the BSF.........however the truth is the BSF does try to avoid civilian deaths where possible following protocol.....the problem lies in identification......whether the intruder is a villager ( an inadvertent mistake) .....a smuggler who is almost always armed and retaliates against the BSF.....this was learned the hard way after several jawans were killed....also a few years back there was an incident when BDR personnel lured a BSF patrolman into a trap pretending to be innocent trespassing villagers in plain clothes .......and in the attempt at closer investigation the jawan was unwittingly trapped and killed.....so the BDR are not exactly the saints you make them out to be.....

BSF jawan killed in ambush near Bangladesh border - India - DNA

and the reason you can say

We dont treat Indians who intrude our territorry and dont send body bags. even though we were same once as like as indians but we moved on

is because the intrusion is a hundred times more rampant from the BD side of the border into the Indian side than it is vice versa and comparing the scale and magnitude of illegal entries mistakes are occasionally made........

 

[TopCat]

I understand that sensational reporting by the media has filled your mind with a lot of horror stories about the BSF.........however the truth is the BSF does try to avoid civilian deaths where possible following protocol.....the problem lies in identification......whether the intruder is a villager ( an inadvertent mistake) .....a smuggler who is almost always armed and retaliates against the BSF.....this was learned the hard way after several jawans were killed....also a few years back there was an incident when BDR personnel lured a BSF patrolman into a trap pretending to be innocent trespassing villagers in plain clothes .......and in the attempt at closer investigation the jawan was unwittingly trapped and killed.....so the BDR are not exactly the saints you make them out to be.....

Huh.. this is not the correct story. Even if I taken it as for granted, a civilian(BDR is in plain cloth, he is considered a civilian under BD law) lured a BSF and BSF got lured and the luring was so much BSF cross the international border under uniform. Means what? Do you find anything wrong with it? I can show you hundreds of cases when BSF intrude BD territorry even killing infants who were sleeping inside their home.


BSF jawan killed in ambush near Bangladesh border - India - DNA

and the reason you can say

is because the intrusion is a hundred times more rampant from the BD side of the border into the Indian side than it is vice versa and comparing the scale and magnitude of illegal entries mistakes are occasionally made........

Intrusion is not 100 times more but it was inflated 100 times. If we even looking at the number of indians getting killed by the BSF the number does not show any less. Now taking into account that BDR does not kill indian civilians inside BD territory. If we did kill them then the numbers would had been much bigger.

 

[FNFAL]

india shares a border with no less than 6 countries???

why is it that only your chums get shot so frequently?

 

[Urbanized Greyhound]

this is the right article .....the other one in DNA India is a misnomer ........the incidents is illustrated in this source and in another source I have posted later in this thread......http://archives.digitaltoday.in/indiatoday/20010507/bangladesh.html

Bordering Truth

The barbaric killing of BSF jawans raises disturbing questions about the incident and puts India-Bangladesh relations under severe strain

By Harinder Baweja and Shishir Gupta with Wasbir Hussain in Guwahati

Caught In Balance
How Things Spun Out Of Control

It is an image that will haunt relations between India and Bangladesh for years to come. The body of a slain Border Security Force (BSF) jawan tied to a pole and carried like an animal carcass. Accompanying it were the grisly visuals of trussed up, mutilated and brutalised bodies of 15 other BSF personnel killed in the Boraibari incident on April 18. Understandably, there was a national outrage.





OUTRAGE: Boraibari villagers with the body of a BSF jawan


Even as tensions continued to mount last week, with both sides fortifying their borders with additional troops, Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee came under fire from his own partymen for not taking tough retaliatory action against Bangladesh. Yet almost 10 days after the fracas, instead of clarity there is still enormous confusion over what really caused the worst flare-up on the Indo-Bangladesh border since the 1971 war. There were other searching questions: how did the 16 BSF men die and why were the bodies returned mutilated? Why did the Indian Government do everything to de-escalate the situation, even risking flak for soft-pedalling the issue?

The truth may take awhile in coming but there are indications that the earlier reports about what really happened were misleading. That while Bangladesh did make the first aggressive move, a bungled counter-attack by India well inside Bangladesh's territory may have resulted in the death of the BSF personnel. This could also explain why the Indian Government's response was restrained, both verbally and in military terms.

The 4,096-km border between the two countries has always been tense. In the past six months alone, regular skirmishes between the BSF and its counterpart, the Bangladesh Rifles (BDR), have left 32 dead, mostly civilians. Reports of abductions and assaults on women in the villages have been common and local resentment against the troops is high. There is also a dispute since the 1971 war over who has territorial rights to certain pockets of land or enclaves along the irregular border. There are 111 Indian enclaves in Bangladesh and 50 Bangladeshi ones in India.







BRUTAL END: The bodies of the 16 BSF personnel were badly mutilated

The current hostilities broke out over two such enclaves-one bordering Meghalaya and the other Assam. Trouble began on April 15 at a village called Pyrdiwah in Meghalaya. It is now clear that the BDR, in a surprising show of aggression, moved in to capture it. An entire battalion strength (1,000 men) of the BDR had walked in through the arecanut groves and encircled the 31 BSF personnel guarding the post. The BSF held their ground and waited for reinforcements to be sent. It took a day for three additional companies (each company comprises 100 men) to reach the area. The BSF asked for a flag meeting-the usual practice to settle such adventurism which has happened several times along the border. But the BDR stuck to its stand that Pyrdiwah was part of Bangladesh and asked the BSF for proof that the village was on Indian territory. When the BSF showed them papers, the BDR said they wanted to see original documents, not photocopies.

All along the BDR insisted that the BSF vacate the village and that they would not budge because they had orders from Dhaka. The next day, on April 17, BDR Director-General Fazlur Rahman gave details of the Pyrdiwah thrust and told the media proudly: "We have just completed a mission to restore our territory and sovereignty."

It may have also been a ploy by Bangladesh Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina Wajed to shake off her pro-India image, which could prove to be a liability in an election year. The Indian response, however, spun things out of control.​

 

[TopCat]

india shares a border with no less than 6 countries???

why is it that only your chums get shot so frequently?

Becuase Nepal and Bhutan does not have a border with India. Its open. Srilankans and Maldives living in the sea. Pakistan and India always in a war like situtaion and the border is not popolous. China does not allow you to go close to zero line with arms in a very thinly populated aread. But there are complains that Indians shepard does cross the border and Chinese just shoot them out. There were some discussion in your parliament that I heard and your home minister was too ashamed to accept it. Come to reality world my dear..