Battles of 1971

[leonblack08]

It's all convinent for chest beating but remember the superpowers America and Russia in Vietnam and Afghanistan lost out because they were fighting away from home against an unseen enemy. There are other examples like India in Sri Lanka and again US in Somalia.
Pakistan Army was fighting a war 1000 miles away against a full fledge Indian attack and the local population. More over it was totally deprived of any reinforcements, logistics and supplies.

A full fledged Indian attack came only after 3rd December. Till then they were fighting against guerrillas,not armed with tanks.

They were getting their supplies through sea route.Yes they were at disadvantage,but they were killing civilians,for which they had more than enough supply.
Another fact is before 25th march,ship loads of arms and ammo were unloaded at CHT dock.And you are talking about lack of supply.

 

[leonblack08]

The main difference here Windjammer happens to be that US, Russia and India were taking the fight to another country......an act of "Power projection"...which in recent times only a country like the USA has been successful in......

Nevertheless...comparing 1971 to the Vietnam war is flawed since BD was East Pakistan!!!....It was your own country..your own land and your own people..You had the resources available, supply lines, and presence of a significant number of troops.....If you're suggesting that US or Russia will lose a war in their homeland and surrender 90000 troops, then I think you're delusional.

About the bolded part.....East Pak as did west pak gained independence in 47....are you suggesting that in 24 years, Pakistan was unable to secure logistics in its own land? And the fact that a 50s era squardron and an "ill-supplied" army/forces were the only line of defence for a sizable population and land of E.Pak is another glaring example of the discrimination of W.Pak towards the Bengalis. Im not surprised they rebelled!!!

During 1965 war,East pakistan was left as a bait for Indians to invade.Nothing was done to secure East Pakistan.No wonder people felt discriminated.

 

[TopCat]

During 1965 war,East pakistan was left as a bait for Indians to invade.Nothing was done to secure East Pakistan.No wonder people felt discriminated.

Everytime Bengali raised that issue, the W. Pakistani army leaders used to assure us that if India takes over E. Pakistan then they will take over Delhi from West.

Look, they got Delhi and we got Indian Army... what a deal!!!!

 

[deckingraj]

Bro do u aware that u could be convict for being rebel against BD?

I understand ur grief. Both, W & E Pak did wrong but I'll blame 80% to the W.Pak. The W. Pak political rulers were unable to guess the future, they were unable to rule and live together. They were not respectful to us. And India took the opportunity to split Pakistan. They acted as catalyst, for their own benefits.

Now we, only, can build brotherly relation between us. And we should respect to those souls who sacrifice their lives for BD.

Before i start i would like to admit about my ignorance on this subject...Couple of questions for you...

a) When you say E.Pak was wrong by 20%...what are you referring to??

b) When you say India took the opportunity to split Pakistan...What exactly you mean?? What other options in you eyes India had in those circumstances??? To me there were few options

- Stop the inflow of refugees to India(Inhuman)
- Do not lend any help to Mukhti Bahini(In other words let attrocities happen in BD - after all they were Pakistani's)
- Help Mukhti Bahini but don't get involved(other words keep helping covertly)
- Help Mukhti Bahini and get involved to give the final punch(which India did)


@ Members
Also apart from Bangladeshi's a good number of Indian soldiers also gave their lives and limbs for this freedom struggle... May be i have missed but seems like no one has paid any tribute to them...

 

[DavyJones]

I don't understand how some Bangladeshis can deny the genocide by Pakistan. There is just tonnes of proof all over the net. The famous Blood telegram is just the most damning piece -
Archer K. Blood; Dissenting Diplomat (washingtonpost.com)
The rapes of thousands and thousands of BD women is well documented and proved.
BD posters - I hope there is a law in BD to make the 1971 genocide denial a crime. Just like in Europe where Jewish Holocaust denial is a crime.
Relations with Pak may not be affected- even Israel and Germany have good relations in spite of what happened in the 2nd world War.

 

[Windjammer]

It was also a home to Pakistan army, but they made it their enemy land. I understand Pakistan is a military society, but Bengal is not. Wining a war in Bengal is very difficult, even Alexander had to go back from here. You wont find any shortage of soldiers but there are shortage of Talibans here...

Your posts here does not make any sense, neither they are relevant to this thread.

First of all get your statistics in order, firstly how do Talibans fit into 1971 scenario, so care to comment who is giving pathetic examples. ?
Then again BR have proved just as vicious as the Talibans.

 

[Windjammer]

The main difference here Windjammer happens to be that US, Russia and India were taking the fight to another country......an act of "Power projection"...which in recent times only a country like the USA has been successful in......

Nevertheless...comparing 1971 to the Vietnam war is flawed since BD was East Pakistan!!!....It was your own country..your own land and your own people..You had the resources available, supply lines, and presence of a significant number of troops.....If you're suggesting that US or Russia will lose a war in their homeland and surrender 90000 troops, then I think you're delusional.

About the bolded part.....East Pak as did west pak gained independence in 47....are you suggesting that in 24 years, Pakistan was unable to secure logistics in its own land? And the fact that a 50s era squardron and an "ill-supplied" army/forces were the only line of defence for a sizable population and land of E.Pak is another glaring example of the discrimination of W.Pak towards the Bengalis. Im not surprised they rebelled!!!

You name one country that is divided by 1000 miles of enemy territory. It was indeed part of Pakistan, that's why Sheikh Mujib was invited to form government in Islamabad, but he was adamant to shift all brick and motors to Dacca. And before you go on gloating about rebellion, Mrs. Gandhi is on record for commenting, "Indian forces have entered East Pakistan in.......... self defence. !!!
How do you explain that. ???

 

[TopCat]

First of all get your statistics in order, firstly how do Talibans fit into 1971 scenario, so care to comment who is giving pathetic examples. ?
Then again BR have proved just as vicious as the Talibans.

No Taliban does not fit in 1971 scenarion that was my point. Infact there would not have any Taliban if Bengal were still a part of Pakistan. Bengalis would never let Pakistani military to wage a proxy war against Soviets and got into quagmire.

Second Yes Bengalis can be very vicous as well. Thats why guns are restricted in this country.

 

[TopCat]

You name one country that is divided by 1000 miles of enemy territory. It was indeed part of Pakistan, that's why Sheikh Mujib was invited to form government in Islamabad, but he was adamant to shift all brick and motors to Dacca. And before you go on gloating about rebellion, Mrs. Gandhi is on record for commenting, "Indian forces have entered East Pakistan in.......... self defence. !!!
How do you explain that. ???

And what was wrong if Capital was shifted to Dhaka?

 

[Windjammer]

A full fledged Indian attack came only after 3rd December. Till then they were fighting against guerrillas,not armed with tanks.

They were getting their supplies through sea route.Yes they were at disadvantage,but they were killing civilians,for which they had more than enough supply.
Another fact is before 25th march,ship loads of arms and ammo were unloaded at CHT dock.And you are talking about lack of supply.




Where did you get this info??

Defected PAF personnel,defected with their lives in hand.How would they take away fighters?
Only a single PAF pilot Bir Shreshto Matiur Rahman,attempted to fly away with a T-33 trainer.But it was a failed attempt.

All the air craft,most probably 3,that BAF got was donated by Indian Air force and then BAF was formed.

Do Not come up and post imaginary info to support your post.
That shows your credibilty.

The credit is due to them and we should be giving it.And that's what I am trying to do.

The war in earnest had started on 22 November and not 3rd December as you put it. Indian heavy artillery was firing across the border in Bengal, several air engagements had taken place between IAF and PAF with casualties on both sides, however the war in the West was launched on 3rd December.
And before proving your credentials, read my post again, there is no mention of war planes, it's war plans, surely proves your mind set.

 

[mijanur]

[url="

Broadcast Yourself.[/url]

y would u want to bring this up.

anywayz.. happy victory day

 

[leonblack08]

The war in earnest had started on 22 November and not 3rd December as you put it. Indian heavy artillery was firing across the border in Bengal, several air engagements had taken place between IAF and PAF with casualties on both sides, however the war in the West was launched on 3rd December.
And before proving your credentials, read my post again, there is no mention of war planes, it's war plans, surely proves your mind set.

those artillery firing was there for the FFs to flee to the safehouses inside India.And medium shelling was used constantly throughout the war..but that doesn't mean advance by Indian troops.

About plane,apologies as it was posted it in a hurry.
But one point remains,these guys defected during early days of war.You can go and see the video of Squadron leader Badrul Alam.Now couldn't the war plan been be revised?if it wasn't then isn't it the fault of PAF?

What actually you are trying to imply here?That Pakisran army was weak because of disadvantages and so lost the war.I think if Hitler was alive,he too would have pointed out the disadvantages of russian winter.But does that take away anything f.rom Russians?They fought bravely,world knows it.Similar case is for ours.So,what's your point?

besides you posted a video about conflict between BD-India,which we are well aware of.But how is that relevant to 1971?

 

[Peshwa]

You name one country that is divided by 1000 miles of enemy territory. It was indeed part of Pakistan, that's why Sheikh Mujib was invited to form government in Islamabad, but he was adamant to shift all brick and motors to Dacca. And before you go on gloating about rebellion, Mrs. Gandhi is on record for commenting, "Indian forces have entered East Pakistan in.......... self defence. !!!
How do you explain that. ???

I see you pointing to the 2 flanks of Pakistan pre-war of '71 as a disadvantage......But with all due respect....It was nothing but a decisive advantage at least from a military standpoint had Pakistan had the foresight to use it as a leverage (Lets leave governance alone since its not the topic of the thread). Pakistan had an opportunity to pressurize India from 2 fronts...in all military circles that is considered an advantage (I see Pakistani's frustrated about Indian advances in Afghanistan because they feel they might be encircled...why is Indian military presence considered a threat?)....in this case India was encircled.....You had the advantage and you lost it....thanks to discrimination against the Bengali's...which resulted in your own people turning against you.....which ended up being the loss of Pakistan's trump card.....

Do remember that Pakistani military for most part was fighting nothing more than "ill trained, ill-equipped" Bengali FFs who softened your army.....India only delivered the knockout punch.....So even if you argue about the lack of supply etc.....your army wasnt facing a daunting professional army....and all respect goes to the Bengali's for holding their own.....

About the Gandhi comment.....No one here believes that India went to war in self-defence (Maybe for foreign consumption)....It was a strategic move at an impeccable time...."Everything is fair in love and war"

PS: Sheikh Mujib was a Bengali nationalist who was seeking rights for his Bengali bretheren.....selling into a W.Pakistani govt would have meant abandoning his position and people......Im assuming that was his reason for rejecting.....(Its like the Hurriyat leaders giving up their respective stands on Kashmir for a position in the Indian central govt).....thats my understanding....correct me if Im wrong...

 

[Al-zakir]

Why People Must take combind Action against Awami Legue -Gangs

Wednesday December 16 2009 08:41:54 AM BDT


Sam.Kohl


The political and economical depression is the womb of terrorism. The bourgeoisie or the greedy capitalism is the product of all evil terrorists. Through history we found all so called patriotism or ultra nationalism had a back ground of terrorism; and no doubt Bangladesh Awami League is one of them.

In former East Pakistan (Eastern wings of Pakistan) was destroyed by the terrorist activities in 1971 by the leading of notorious late SK Mojibor- Awami gangs. Previously AL was participated with Indian Govt. and that is known in our history, “AGORTALA CONSPIRACY.” The party of Awami League was founded by late Husyan Shaheed Suhrawardy; who was the Prime Minister of Pakistan from 1956 until 1957. Mr. Suhrawardy was very closed, reliable with Mr. Jinnah’s racial politics in British India. PM HASINA’S father, SK Mojib was involved in the same politics, the Muslim students wings in Calcutta and they both made riots against Hindus, August 16, 1946. Our history proved that the AL is not the honest Democratic Party at alls; rather it is an ultra national racist party without any positive direction.

What was the other politician’s position in 1971? The PDP, Muslim League, Nesamee Islam, Jamati Islam and many other could not made any decision to participating with Indian govt. to fight against their own govt. and they are known by the AL, so called war enemies! But as a statist’s formula they were not enemies in their own state.

What about the positions of leftists in 1971? Leftists never mixed up with bourgeois Awami League party politics, they were participated with the war (for the freedom policy against exploitation) against two fronts. 1. Awami-Indian combind terrorism and 2. Pak -Armies aggressions.

The great leader of late martyr comrade Siraj Shikdar, built “the Purbo Banglar Gono-Mukti Front” and most left ideologists were involved there and fought against above mentioning those two front enemies.

For the freedom and liberty our fight against establishing bureaucracy will be continuing.

In Bangladesh it seems few so called leftists they always waiting for a chance and collaborate with bourgeoisie specially lack's AL for the power of cabinet.

The Bangladesh is the land of terrorists dominated ideology, therefore there is no democracy only cult of nepotisms are continuing exploiting to people. The Awami terror govt. standing against people’s democratic will. AL govt. took bribe from foreign states and trying to control people’s individual behavior, traditional norms and culture. AL fascist’s beliefs that their governing activities are the best and sweet for country. In Bangladesh there is no individual liberty. People should not wait to long to let to do all of their own choices. AWAMI LEAGUE MUST BE FULLOUT BY THE UNITED DEMOCRATIC ACTION.

AWAMI LEAGUE’S own statist character is, they are the totalitarians; previously they were cooperated directly with Moscow politics and practiced Stalinism. In Bangladesh from 1972 to 14th August, 1975 they killed in barbaric way more then 40 thousands inhabitants (most of them were anti-Mujib-Indira left wings opposition politician) by their former Rakhi bahinee (Hitlar's Gestapo model) we never forget that. NOTORIOUS AWAMI LEAGUE WILL NEVER BE EXCUSED FROM HISTORY FOR THEIR DOUBLE STANDARDs.


http://newsfrombangladesh.net/view.php?hidRecord=297175

 

[TopCat]

I don't understand how some Bangladeshis can deny the genocide by Pakistan. There is just tonnes of proof all over the net. The famous Blood telegram is just the most damning piece -
Archer K. Blood; Dissenting Diplomat (washingtonpost.com)
The rapes of thousands and thousands of BD women is well documented and proved.
BD posters - I hope there is a law in BD to make the 1971 genocide denial a crime. Just like in Europe where Jewish Holocaust denial is a crime.
Relations with Pak may not be affected- even Israel and Germany have good relations in spite of what happened in the 2nd world War.

Well some bengalis do deny that because they were or their parents were involved on those genocide. We call them Rajakars. As the political scenario changed drastically and they found their way into political high ups. There is also a fear, which made them to distort history. Also they were successfull to eshtablish that, to oppose AL you need to oppose 1971 only to legitimize their position and genocide.